Eric Borneman coral controversy

[Liquid4ce]

When this post does close, and everyone is satisfied, please do us a favor and fade into the sunset. I hope to never have the displeasure of being subjected to your personal vendettas, self important ego, and incompetance on any reef site again. If you are going to be an adult, learn how to act like one.

Sara is to reef forums what aiptasia or briopsis is to our tanks... a nuisance, a pest you can never fully rid yourself of. No, check that, she's more like an AEFW... a useless parasite sucking the life from something we all love :roll:

Oh... and Cracker... flat delusional

 

[Anonymous]

There are plenty of examples of one incident starting something. That's what happens, one incident.

I happen to know two of the agencies sihaya contacted about this. I know what their agendas are. I know what they are already saying about it.

You might not comprehend it, someone granted a permit to collect, transport, and house hundreds of pounds of protected corals. When that someone is more aligned with the pet industry, and that facility is more aligned with the pet industry. Is a big deal. This has never happened before.

I'm not pushing saving the reef, those are words you are trying to say that I said.
I just said that there are businesses in the country that have to justify their permits every year, while being lobbied against by these highly organized, highly funded groups.

 

[StevenPro]

Tropic,

I do not understand your animosity directed toward me. I certainly don't think you or your company did anything wrong. If I unintentionally said something that gave you that impression, I am sincerely sorry.

 

[sihaya]

Cracker2 - it's up to you, but I don't think there's much point to addressing any more of vitz or liquid4rce's comments.

 

[Anonymous]

When this post does close, and everyone is satisfied, please do us a favor and fade into the sunset. I hope to never have the displeasure of being subjected to your personal vendettas, self important ego, and incompetance on any reef site again. If you are going to be an adult, learn how to act like one.

Sara is to reef forums what aiptasia or briopsis is to our tanks... a nuisance, a pest you can never fully rid yourself of. No, check that, she's more like an AEFW... a useless parasite sucking the life from something we all love :roll:

Oh... and Cracker... flat delusional

Maybe you didn't read my comments the first time.

Stick to the issues, not personal attacks. So far your only contribution to the site is to attack another user. I'd like that to change quickly.

Matt

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I've read enough. This thread has gone nowhere good and is just a string of "you suck" "no, you suck" at this point.

Closed for now.

 

[Len]

I'm reopening this thread in hopes of continuing meaningful discussion. However, I warn anyone who does not stick with the issue and acts uncivilly towards another member will be banned. Two important reminders: 1. We may disagree, but we can all disagree respectfully. 2. The point of discussions needn't be to "win" (or make those disagree with you "lose"), but simply to convey our personal thoughts for others to think about (and vice versa).

 

[sihaya]

Len, thank you.

For anyone not thoroughly exhausted with the topic yet, here's some more information (not on the site) some friends have reminded me of since the thread was locked:

post to the Michigan Reefers:
http://www.michiganreefers.com/forums/a ... -5086.html

CDHC post & reply with concerns:
http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/pipermail/cd ... 00029.html

 

[Anonymous]

So, these are from 2004....February and March.

I need a timeline.....

 

[sihaya]

Aero- give me a little bit and I'll try to put together an organized time line for everyone

 

[Anonymous]

I think that the site creator's purpose is clearly stated on the website... and to gossip about any other possible motives is only an attempt to distract from the material presented.

It's always easier and more fun to talk about the drama and politics of the messenger than to have the discipline to sit down, read the material, and actually come up with something worthwhile to say about the actual issue or project. I know I've fallen into the drama trap many times myself, but I try to stay above it and focus on what's important... and what's important is what happened to these hundreds of pounds of protected Florida corals.

The most extensive collections are from the Truman Annex site at Key West,
>where, in November, we brought back 165 pounds of coral

i'm curious-how did 165 lbs of corals become 'hundreds' of pounds ?

 

[sihaya]

i'm curious-how did 165 lbs of corals become 'hundreds' of pounds ?

That's not the end total... there were more. I've read/heard a lot of different numbers, but in the 2004 IMAC lecture on DVD, Mr. Borneman says it was over 200lbs.

 

[Anonymous]

ericborneman wrote:
The most extensive collections are from the Truman Annex site at Key West,
>where, in November, we brought back 165 pounds of coral

posted by vitz
i'm curious-how did 165 lbs of corals become 'hundreds' of pounds ?



Posted to corallist by Eric Borneman
Saturday, February 21, 2004
"The most extensive collections are from the Truman Annex site at Key West, where, in November, we brought back 165 pounds of coral.
This week (Saturday, February 21, 2004), we will be driving a truck back to the site to bring back a great deal more."

From Lauri's email to Billy Causey, Superintendent of the Sanctuary
"Eric was scheduled for his second visit with me when I thought I was available to be here to "watch the hen house"
Therefore, he did collect from the nursery baskets and looking at his inventory he totally disregarded my directive and took....11 corals species totalling 40 corals ALL over 20 cm.
I specifially explained that for the corals over 20cm, the Navy was obligated be permitting to transplant them and that they must remain in the nursery.
This discussion did occur before he actually had a chance to take corals
on his 2nd visit back with the U-haul truck.


.

 

[Liquid4ce]

^ I corrected myself... So who has an accurate accounting of the corals taken in total?

 

[Anonymous]

He said he originally took 165 lbs of corals.

In addition to that he took 40 corals over 20cm. or over about 8 inches.

Plus a lot of frags.

I suppose only taking 20 pounds of corals would make it alright then. Not as sensational, but just as illegal.

 

[Anonymous]

No one.

What was taken and what was returned would be impossible to say.

Whole corals over 8 inches were taken and some whole corals were returned and a lot of frags.

 

[Liquid4ce]

Personally I'm just looking for the truth... if laws were broken, there should be accountability. Are you saying Eric Borneman broke the law?

 

[Anonymous]

From Craig's inventory of what he received back from Mr. Koch.

He lists only about 8 corals returned that were over 20cm, or 8 inches.

Lauri says her inventory was missing 40 corals over 8 inches.

"11 corals species totalling 40 corals ALL over 20 cm."

 

[sihaya]

Ok, here's the best time line I could put together in a hurry (if anyone notices an error, please let me know):

Roughly Sketched Time Line:

Nov 2003- FIRST trip with truck to collect corals (165 lbs taken)

early Feb 2004 - Permit Application

Feb 5, 2004 - Permits 1&2

week of Feb 21 - SECOND trip with truck to collect corals (? lbs taken)

Feb 21, 2004 - CDHC post
Feb 26, 2004 - CDHC reply

March 3 - Mr. Borneman's inventory submitted

March 8, 2004 - post to Michigan Reefers (but maybe not about this project?)

April-May 2004 - emails with Mr. Keller reporting that the corals are doing well

Sept 14, 2004 - Permit 3

Oct 14, 2004 - Permit 4

Dec 2004/Jan 2005 - Mr. Borneman (according to communications with Billy Causey) first notices that the corals are declining

Feb 14, 2005 - Ms. MacLaclaughin's email explaining some concerns and why she felt FKNMS had been misled

around Feb 27, 2005 - when Mr. Causey says he was notified by Mr. Watson of the problematic circumstances

first week March, 2005 - certified letter sent by Mr. Borneman to Mr. Causey

March 5 & 8, 2005 - dates of posted emails between Mr. Borneman & Mr. Causey, including Mr. Causey's first request that the corals be returned

March 18, 2005 - formal request for return of corals sent by Mr. Causey

April 11, 2005 - date of Mr. Watson's initial inventory of returned corals

 

[Anonymous]

If the limit on grouper was under 20 inches.

You went out fishing and brought back 40 grouper, all over 20 inches.

Did you break the law?


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