Suggestions for fish stocking selection

[Anonymous]

OK, so my plan is now to have a 36" x 24" x 18"H glass rimless tank. Which probably rules out a mandarin, as I've gone from a 100g tank to a (just shy of) 70g tank. Not inclined to try my luck with a mandarin if it's not recommended at that size.

However, I still am inclined towards that sort of range of fish. Small, pretty and active (if not necessarily fast moving). I'd really like to have a mix of different colors/"personality types" and feeding preferences (to avoid conflict). At the size I've gone for, I guess I can't really have a tang either (not even a Zebrasoma?).

Must haves are limited at the moment - I definitely want a Nemateleotris sp., maybe N.decora. A Gobiodon sp. or two, plus I'd love to have a few Apogon leptacanthus if I can get hold of them.

Other than that, I've been so focused on coral choices, I've not really got my thoughts straight on fish. Any suggestions? The only other thing to note is that I will stock LPS, so no nippers, which probably rules out Dwarf Angels unfortunately...

 

[Ben1]

I really like my fang blennys I added from ORA, http://glassbox-design.com/2009/macna-x ... ed-blenny/

They are colorful and neat fish. I got two unfortuatly one got sucked threw my vortech when it was swimming around all fast at feeding time and came out in multiple chunks.

If you want a tang, maybe one that stays smaller like a chevron, I think the max size is 9" but IIRC a 70 gal would be fine for it. I know you mentionsed docoras but how about helfrichis instead?
Tilefish like H. purpureus would be cool too. I'd definatly go with a nice Cirrhilabrus wrasse like a bathyphilus or rubrisquamis.

You going to have open top IIRC might want to look into making a screen top there is a nice DIY one one here http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/f30/lig ... 29897.html that could help you with some of these jumpers. Speaking of jumpers maybe a bluespot jawfish.

I always thought a Stonogobiops yasha paired with a pistol shrimp was a neat pair. Or even a group of blue/green chromis would be cool.

Are you already in Japan? Hope its going well out there for ya if your already there.

 

[Mike612]

I love my Helfrichi Firefish. It's smaller and more peaceful than the Purple Firefish. Ben's giving you a good choice there.

Chevron Tangs are actually known to get to 11 inches. The Tomini Tang is a little smaller and may be a better choice. If you can find one, you may even be able to try a small Yellow Tang. In my experience they don't grow that fast and they ignore fish that aren't related to them.

If you don't want a tang, you can try an angel. I know you mentioned coral and I'm sure you're worried about an angel picking at your coral but there's one that I could think of that won't touch a thing: the Venustus Angelfish. They're tougher to keep than your average angel but in my experience they don't touch a thing.

Another good option for an active fish with tons of personality is the Pyramid Butterfly. It's extremely peaceful and easy to care for. It's a planktivore so it doesn't touch coral.

I wouldn't go with a tilefish. I only tried to keep a tilefish on one occasion, the Purple Tilefish. While it is a beautiful fish, acclimating it was very difficult because it kept on trying to jump out of the bag and then even in the aquarium it always stuck close to the surface, trying to find a way out. It eventually found a small hole that I couldn't cover about 3 months after I added it. It's a nervous fish and it makes me nervous too.

Green Chromis are nice. If you can find it, the Flame Wrasse is a beauty and very easy to keep, not to mention very playful. Mine swims between my fingers when I have my hand in the tank. The Hooded Wrasse is also beautiful and easy to care for, but a little more territorial.

 

[Anonymous]

I really like my fang blennys I added from ORA, http://glassbox-design.com/2009/macna-x ... ed-blenny/

They are colorful and neat fish. I got two unfortuatly one got sucked threw my vortech when it was swimming around all fast at feeding time and came out in multiple chunks.

If you want a tang, maybe one that stays smaller like a chevron, I think the max size is 9" but IIRC a 70 gal would be fine for it. I know you mentionsed docoras but how about helfrichis instead?
Tilefish like H. purpureus would be cool too. I'd definatly go with a nice Cirrhilabrus wrasse like a bathyphilus or rubrisquamis.

You going to have open top IIRC might want to look into making a screen top there is a nice DIY one one here http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/f30/lig ... 29897.html that could help you with some of these jumpers. Speaking of jumpers maybe a bluespot jawfish.

I always thought a Stonogobiops yasha paired with a pistol shrimp was a neat pair. Or even a group of blue/green chromis would be cool.

Are you already in Japan? Hope its going well out there for ya if your already there.

Thanks Ben. Yup, been here a couple of months now and things are going reasonably well. Much as I wanted to immediately go out and buy a tank, it didn't make sense to do so until we were in our permanent apartment and our heavy baggage had arrived and was more or less unpacked. So I've only recently made contact with my old LFS. I had thought of a custom tank, but I've gone for the simple (and it turns out, much cheaper) option, with the standard three pipe overflow they use over here and the standard size above. I'll definitely be having an open top tank, but really want to avoid a cover if I can avoid it, as it won't look great IMO. So no expensive jumpers for me unfortunately, probably ruling out the wrasses or, based on what Mike says below, the purple tilefish (or the jawfish, which I think are a bit ugly anyway ).

I'll keep my eye out for the fang blennies. Neither of the shops I have at the top of my favorites have any in stock at the moment it seems (though one has a Plagiotremus rhinorhynchus - perhaps not the best choice for a community tank!). Tempted by something like a Istiblennus chrysospilos (Redspotted Blenny), but have a sneaking suspicion that they actually get pretty large eventually and lose their herbivorous ways. Or was that just Lawnmower Blennies? Is the Redspotted Blenny a Lawnmower Blenny? I lose track...

Just read in Scott Michael that the Midas Blenny might nip the fins of gobies and dartfish, so that's out...

Good to be reminded that the decora is more aggressive than the helfrichi, though I might have to try and sneak that one under the radar if I get a helfrichi, as I see it costs about $95 to the decora's $20-$25!

I think I'd prefer the Apogons to the Chromis given my previous experience with Chromis is that they continually pick on the weakest Chromis in the tank until there's only one left! They are a pretty fish though and I might be tempted if I were going for a large tank.

Really good call on the Stonogobiops/shrimp pair though. They're easily available here and would be a cool talking point for the tank (here's hoping they pick a nicely visible place for their burrow!).

 

[Anonymous]

I love my Helfrichi Firefish. It's smaller and more peaceful than the Purple Firefish. Ben's giving you a good choice there.

Chevron Tangs are actually known to get to 11 inches. The Tomini Tang is a little smaller and may be a better choice. If you can find one, you may even be able to try a small Yellow Tang. In my experience they don't grow that fast and they ignore fish that aren't related to them.

If you don't want a tang, you can try an angel. I know you mentioned coral and I'm sure you're worried about an angel picking at your coral but there's one that I could think of that won't touch a thing: the Venustus Angelfish. They're tougher to keep than your average angel but in my experience they don't touch a thing.

Another good option for an active fish with tons of personality is the Pyramid Butterfly. It's extremely peaceful and easy to care for. It's a planktivore so it doesn't touch coral.

I wouldn't go with a tilefish. I only tried to keep a tilefish on one occasion, the Purple Tilefish. While it is a beautiful fish, acclimating it was very difficult because it kept on trying to jump out of the bag and then even in the aquarium it always stuck close to the surface, trying to find a way out. It eventually found a small hole that I couldn't cover about 3 months after I added it. It's a nervous fish and it makes me nervous too.

Green Chromis are nice. If you can find it, the Flame Wrasse is a beauty and very easy to keep, not to mention very playful. Mine swims between my fingers when I have my hand in the tank. The Hooded Wrasse is also beautiful and easy to care for, but a little more territorial.

Thanks Mike. I might think about a Yellow Tang, but I'm not so keen about the Chevron or Tomini (purely shallow reasons - the colors don't appeal, other than for the juvenile Chevron). I might have to accept that there won't be a tang in this tank.

The Venustus Angel was not a fish I was aware of. Very beautiful, though Scott Michael says the same thing about it possibly nipping coral, so not sure I want to take the risk (I guess for almost every dwarf angel there is the same risk. You might end up with a "bad one", though from what you say about the Venustus, maybe this risk is lower).

I'll keep my eyes open for the Pyramid Butterfly. None available at the moment by the looks of things, but one may well turn up.

Thanks again,

Tom

 

[Mike612]

The Venustus Angel was not a fish I was aware of. Very beautiful, though Scott Michael says the same thing about it possibly nipping coral, so not sure I want to take the risk (I guess for almost every dwarf angel there is the same risk. You might end up with a "bad one", though from what you say about the Venustus, maybe this risk is lower).

I don't know. I kept 3 different Venustus Angels and they never touched a thing. They were more interested in picking at the algae on the rocks than at the actual coral. I kept them with softies, lps, mushrooms, and zoos. It touched nothing. Maybe they're known to pick more at sps coral.

 

[Len]

Apogon parvulus cardinals are pretty and school well. They don't ship well, but they're hardy once established (though they're stupid and can get eaten by LPS/anemones).

Liopropomas are cool little fish. Since you're going rimless, wrasses are too dangerous (carpet surfing SOBs).

You can consider a small school of Anthias too.

 

[Anonymous]

The Venustus Angel was not a fish I was aware of. Very beautiful, though Scott Michael says the same thing about it possibly nipping coral, so not sure I want to take the risk (I guess for almost every dwarf angel there is the same risk. You might end up with a "bad one", though from what you say about the Venustus, maybe this risk is lower).

I don't know. I kept 3 different Venustus Angels and they never touched a thing. They were more interested in picking at the algae on the rocks than at the actual coral. I kept them with softies, lps, mushrooms, and zoos. It touched nothing. Maybe they're known to pick more at sps coral.

I would love to have an Angel, I know they're available here in Japan, it's a gorgeous looking fish and you're on the verge of convincing me. :lol:

Still, it would be one of the last additions, so I've got some time to think.

 

[Anonymous]

Apogon parvulus cardinals are pretty and school well. They don't ship well, but they're hardy once established (though they're stupid and can get eaten by LPS/anemones).

Liopropomas are cool little fish. Since you're going rimless, wrasses are too dangerous (carpet surfing SOBs).

You can consider a small school of Anthias too.

Thanks Len. Though I notice Liopropomas might eat small ornamental shrimp and I'm starting to lean towards getting some Periclemenes for the tank at some point. Was thinking about getting a BTA, but don't really like the clowns that naturally host in a BTA (my favorites are Percula, but I can't see myself getting one of their natural host anemones in a tank this size). So I was starting to think about anemone shrimp or maybe a porcelain crab.

Are Anthias not a risk as jumpers as well? Also not sure I can be around normally to feed four times a day...

 

[Anonymous]

Suggestions for fish stocking selection

I'll definitely be having an open top tank, but really want to avoid a cover if I can avoid it, as it won't look great IMO.

Tom, can you imagine what it'd be like to go into McDonald's and ask them for their vegan suggestions?

ALL fish can jump. Just give them enough time. Every single person that has their water up to 1/2" from the top of their aesthetically pleasing rimless tank which they refuse to put a cover on does not care about their fish very much--they are essentially just temporary moving decorations adorning their piece of living room art. At some point reef tanks changed from this idea of a little box where we try to keep the things inside as happy and healthy as possible to a very different concept of a living work of museum art that has to look just perfect. So I say pick whatever fish you like--you can always get new ones! Okay, rant over.

OK, so my plan is now to have a 36" x 24" x 18"H glass rimless tank. Which probably rules out a mandarin, as I've gone from a 100g tank to a (just shy of) 70g tank. Not inclined to try my luck with a mandarin if it's not recommended at that size.

I don't think it rules out a mandarin IF you are willing to train it to eat pellet foods and feed it frequently. So much of it depends on how you keep your tank, what kind of copepod density you have, other fish, etc. If you really want to cater the tank around that fish, that is more than enough room to keep one or even a pair happy.

However, I still am inclined towards that sort of range of fish. Small, pretty and active (if not necessarily fast moving). I'd really like to have a mix of different colors/"personality types" and feeding preferences (to avoid conflict). At the size I've gone for, I guess I can't really have a tang either (not even a Zebrasoma?).

The only Zebrasoma that would be appropriate (when full grown) off the top of my head is Z. scopas. There are smaller tangs (aka bristletooths)--the Tomini Tang and Kole Tang would both do just fine in a tank that size.

Must haves are limited at the moment - I definitely want a Nemateleotris sp., maybe N.decora. A Gobiodon sp. or two, plus I'd love to have a few Apogon leptacanthus if I can get hold of them.

If you have an open top, the firefish will jump. I guarantee it. I'd also second the recommendation for A. parvulus. They will leave any decorative shrimp alone and make a great shoal.

Other than that, I've been so focused on coral choices, I've not really got my thoughts straight on fish. Any suggestions? The only other thing to note is that I will stock LPS, so no nippers, which probably rules out Dwarf Angels unfortunately...

I'd also second the recommendation for the Meiacanthus blennies, they are super peaceful, colorful, and always out in the open. You can also find them captive bred if you search for them.

Flasher wrasses would make a great display as well, and your tank is large enough for a smallish harem.

All these guys are jumpers of course...

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I had a rimless tank for three years when I lived here last time and had a total of probably 3 jumpers. Admittedly the tank was deeper (24").

Getting a cover for the tank might sound the easiest thing in the world to you, given the number of huge US hardware shops that sell virtually anything, at next to nothing prices. But I have no idea where to start looking for things like deer netting or whatever it was I saw used last time. I also have virtually no DIY skills. Canopies are not sold here to sit on the top of tanks and I can't fit one to the apartment because it's a rental. Custom stuff costs the moon. Part of the conditions I have from my wife for having a tank is that it looks stylish. Might not sound that important to you what my wife thinks, but it's key for me getting a tank after 4 years of waiting. I can't just have some ghetto cover on the tank.

Part of the reason I wanted to go for small fish was because I thought they would be less crowded in my (by US standards) smallish tank. Less stressed and less likely to jump. But according to you, I don't really care about the fish and I all I want is a pretty ornament for the living room. Thanks for that.

Some excellent advice below your rant though, so thank you. I definitely won't be getting a tang, as the tank simply isn't big enough for one I find attractive enough to buy.

Would I be less likely to get jumpers if I keep every occupant as peaceful as possible? I was thinking of going for a super low-aggression tank anyway. So no bullies.

Any particular advantage for the A.parvulus over the A.leptacanthus? I only ask because I prefer the look of the latter and it seems available here right now (though I might be able to get hold of the former).

If I were to set my heart on a mandarin, would a combination of small gobies (a firefish chained to a rock, a clown goby, a few other small and interesting gobies like Trimma sp. (particularly would like to get a small group of T.caudomaculatum) etc) and a small number of A.parvulus/A.leptacanthus, with perhaps also some Periclemenes shrimp be suitable tank mates? I'd of course want to avoid direct competitors.

 

[Anonymous]

But I have no idea where to start looking for things like deer netting or whatever it was I saw used last time.

Anybody in the US could send you the materials to make one. Just say the word and I can get all the parts for you.

Any particular advantage for the A.parvulus over the A.leptacanthus? I only ask because I prefer the look of the latter and it seems available here right now (though I might be able to get hold of the former).

They're much smaller and won't eat your Periclemenes shrimp.

If I were to set my heart on a mandarin, would a combination of small gobies (a firefish chained to a rock, a clown goby, a few other small and interesting gobies like Trimma sp. (particularly would like to get a small group of T.caudomaculatum) etc) and a small number of A.parvulus/A.leptacanthus, with perhaps also some Periclemenes shrimp be suitable tank mates? I'd of course want to avoid direct competitors.

Those would be great tankmates. T. caudomaculatum is an awesome fish and does great in groups.

 

[Anonymous]

But I have no idea where to start looking for things like deer netting or whatever it was I saw used last time.

Anybody in the US could send you the materials to make one. Just say the word and I can get all the parts for you.

That's kind Matt. I might have to take you up on the offer once the tank is in place. Meanwhile I'll do some further research to see if I can work out a way to do it myself. Would a simple see through plastic/glass cover do the job? I had considered it and discarded it as an idea for reasons of gas exchange/salt creep, but it's a relatively easy solution (commonly done here) if the problems above aren't so serious.

Any particular advantage for the A.parvulus over the A.leptacanthus? I only ask because I prefer the look of the latter and it seems available here right now (though I might be able to get hold of the former).

They're much smaller and won't eat your Periclemenes shrimp.

Sounds like a good reason! I did check with Scott Michael first, but looked again at a few websites given what you've said. At least one says the same thing, so good call, thank you.

If I were to set my heart on a mandarin, would a combination of small gobies (a firefish chained to a rock, a clown goby, a few other small and interesting gobies like Trimma sp. (particularly would like to get a small group of T.caudomaculatum) etc) and a small number of A.parvulus/A.leptacanthus, with perhaps also some Periclemenes shrimp be suitable tank mates? I'd of course want to avoid direct competitors.

Those would be great tankmates. T. caudomaculatum is an awesome fish and does great in groups.

Yes, I really liked the idea of a school of these. Cute little blighters and look a bit more active than the last Trimma sp. I had, which behaved like mini hawkfish, without moving much from one spot.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm an a. parvulus fan, as well as a leptacanthus fan - two of my favorites, in fact. My own stocking idea for the new tank once I have it running is either the a. parvulus or trimma gobies. But I like small fish preferentially.

As far as using a cover of some sort, I'm going with a rimless tank (the elos mini) and am planning to have an acrylic lid fabricated for it. Won't be airtight, I'll have a small cutout in the back. Based on past experience that should be plenty for air exchange. I'll take it off whenever I have company over or take some photos.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Charles. I might go down that route in that case. Will pay a visit to the LFS tomorrow to amend my order to ensure it has a flange to sit a cover on.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Charles. I might go down that route in that case. Will pay a visit to the LFS tomorrow to amend my order to ensure it has a flange to sit a cover on.

You know how ADA uses hooks to suspend a pane of glass over their tanks with like a 1/4" gap around the sides? That's another solution. CurrentUSA's Solana uses something similar, with plastic clip on bits instead of hooks....

 

[Anonymous]

At some point reef tanks changed from this idea of a little box where we try to keep the things inside as happy and healthy as possible to a very different concept of a living work of museum art that has to look just perfect.

C'mon Matt. It's possible to do both. Just harder

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks CJ. I'll see if they have those tomorrow and try and explain what I'm trying to do. If they don't, I'll just go for the flange and hope it looks pretty inconspicuous.

I don't know if I'm just the latest idiot non-marine biologist to have angered Matt, or he's just on a bad day. Even if he is, he's full of useful info, so I'll just take my medicine. He is right after all.

 

[Ben1]

I didnt think these looked ghetto at all. I am sure if you explain to the wife it might safe some money by preventing jumpers she'll be on board. Of course this is coming form someone with an open top, although I am pissed at myself for not making a cover, since it cost me two fish in a year. My feeling with an acrylic of glass cover is they inhibit some 02 exchange and will get gunked up with salt creep to fast needing constant cleaning.

 

[Anonymous]

I didnt think these looked ghetto at all. I am sure if you explain to the wife it might safe some money by preventing jumpers she'll be on board. Of course this is coming form someone with an open top, although I am pissed at myself for not making a cover, since it cost me two fish in a year. My feeling with an acrylic of glass cover is they inhibit some 02 exchange and will get gunked up with salt creep to fast needing constant cleaning.

Nah. I've always run my saltwater and reef tanks with glass covers. Really a non-issue.