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Timfish

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Had a baby monti show up in one of the systems I take care of!
MB Top Inside RS 20250307_135919.jpg
MB Outside Back RS 20250415_153831.jpg


There's 4 different monti colonies that could be the parents, a superman, sunset and 2 we don't remember the names of.

Superman Monti
M P1 Superman RS 20250408_163138.jpg

Sunset Monti
M P2 Sunset RS 20250415.JPG

Forgotten Monti #1 (Very fast growing, this is it's second location. Compared to the other 3 montipora colonies, this one grows about 4 times faster.)
M P3 Unknown RS 20250415_154117.jpg

Forgotten Monti #2
M P4 Unkown RS 20250415_154055.jpg


This system was set up about 4 years ago. I was asked to take over maintenance about 2 years ago (life happens). Aquarium is a Red Sea 450 with Kessils. No skimmer, filter socks but they haven't been cleaned in over well over 2 years. Refugium with cheatomorpha (slow growing, none was harvested for several years). Return pump and 4 power heads. Water changes varied between monthly and weekly with RO/DI. Feeding is frozen typically once a day. PH 8.1 to 8.4 (API). Alkalinity 5 to 10 dKH (Salifert and API). Calcium 300 mg/l to 420 mg/l (Salifert and API). PO4 undectable to .16 mg/l (Salifert and Red Sea) Nitrates undetectable to 1 mg/l (Salifert and Nyos)

FT RS 20250307_144050.jpg
 
Last edited:

alicent23

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Do you see a connection between this unexpected growth and the light from the Kessils? Could it be that the steady light is what is contributing to the natural cell division stimulation from one of the Montis parents?
 

simonson

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Had a baby monti show up in one of the systems I take care of!
View attachment 378321
View attachment 378322


There's 4 different monti colonies that could be the parents, a superman, sunset and 2 we don't remember the names of.

Superman Monti
View attachment 378323

Sunset Monti
View attachment 378324

Forgotten Monti #1 (Very fast growing, this is it's second location. Compared to the other 3 montipora colonies, this one grows about 4 times faster.)
View attachment 378325

Forgotten Monti #2
View attachment 378326


This system was set up about 4 years ago. I was asked to take over maintenance about 2 years ago (life happens). Aquarium is a Red Sea 450 with Kessils. No skimmer, filter socks but they haven't been cleaned in over well over 2 years. Refugium with cheatomorpha (slow growing, none was harvested for several years). Return pump and 4 power heads. Water changes varied between monthly and weekly with RO/DI. Feeding is frozen typically once a day. PH 8.1 to 8.4 (API). Alkalinity 5 to 10 dKH (Salifert and API). Calcium 300 mg/l to 420 mg/l (Salifert and API). PO4 undectable to .16 mg/l (Salifert and Red Sea) Nitrates undetectable to 1 mg/l (Salifert and Nyos)

View attachment 378327
Is it encrusting, plating, or branching? The rapid growth of Forgotten Monti #1 could be a clue if the new colony is expanding quickly.
 

Timfish

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What steps can I take to improve the water quality and overall health of the montipora colonies in my aquarium, given the current maintenance practices and parameters.
plants vs brainrots

Simple answer:

Do your water changes.
do not carbon dose
Keep pH 7.6 - 8.4 (7.9 to 8.3 is preffered)
Alkalinity 7-9 dKH
Calcium > 380 mg/l
PO4 .03 mg/l to .3 mg/l
Nitrate <5 mg/l
Don't bother with a skimmer or with filter socks/rollers
Do not use algae scrubbers
Keep nuisance alga to a minimum with herbivores (urchins) and manual removal and judicious use of H2O2
(https://response.restoration.noaa.g...um-invasive-algae-then-apply-sea-urchins.html)

Keep in mind we can't test for a great deal that's gong on in our systems including some of the most critical stuff. Here's a more detailed answer:

Do frequent water changes, corals and algae release Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC, aka carbon dosing) into the water and water changes are about the only way it can be reduced especially the refractory portion that can be used by heterotrophic microbes to create anoxic conditions in coral microbiomes. Nuisance alga (especially turf & hair types) can release significantly more DOC into the water than corals so add herbivores and use manual removal and H2O2 to control it. This DOC can cause anoxic conditions and/or pathogenic shifts in coral microbiomes and/or nitrogen imbalances that can promote bleaching. And it's important to note even the DOC from corals has been shown to cause problems with corals

Don't do any carbon dosing. Research ahs shown there are species specific effects, ie, a species of DOC that kills s species of coral may have just negligable effect on a different species of coral. There is no way to determine how it's altering the various microbiomes in ecosystems. If it was only promoting autotrophic (read as oxygen conserving) microbes in the water and not promoting heterotrophic microbes (read as oxygen consuming) and not altering coral microbiomes then maybe it has some use. But until we can quantify what it is doing, using it is just shooting a shotgun in the dark.

Add ocean sourced live rock that includes sponges and get it air frieght or overnight. The vast majority of microbial stuff can't be cultured and stuck in a bottle, ocean sourced live rock is the only reliable source to get it Sponges feed on DOC and it has been shown some cryptic species remove 1000X faster than the bacterioplankton in the water. (So whatever a skimmer might be removing, sponges are going to do it a lot faster.)

Ditch your skimmer. At best they may reduce the microbial load in a system. Unfortunately by the very nature of how they reduce stuff, skimmers are skewing the species diversity creating very unnatural microbiomes and cannot remove any of the hydrophillic stuff that is detrimental. They also have been shown to only remove about a third of the DOC introduced to a system.

Phosphate in aquaria basiclly comes in three forms. Dissolved Organic Phosphorus (DOP), Particulate Organic Phosphorus (POP) and Dissolved Inorganic Phosphorus (DIP, genericely refered by aquarists as phosphate or PO4). Keep PO4 between .03 mg/l (the threshold level to prevent coral from having a PO4 deficiency) and .3 mg/l the level upwelling provides to corals). You can't test for DOP and POP but it's important to understand corals will be feeding off both of those forms also. Depending on the food webs in a system (are corals being spotfed?) corals themselves may be the source of PO4 as they release excess from feeding. Here's a diagram from this paper

DIP DOP POP.jpg


Nitrate also comes in Dissolved Organic Nitrogen (DON), Particulate Organic Nitrogen (PON and Dissolved Inorganic Nitrogen (DIN). With nitrogen we can do a little better testing as we can test for some of the inorganic forms, ie, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Ammonia should be taken up as soon as it's released by fish and other organisms. Nitrite shouldn't be detectable as organisms are quick t convert it back to ammonia or to nitrates. Nitrates should be kept at or below 5 mg/l or ocean normal levels. Additionally, Delbeek has a video out giving ratio of Nitrate to PO4 of less than 50/1 as prefferable for reef ecosystems. It's also important to understand corals have simbionts that can change free nitrogen into other forms to be used by corals. This paper reviewed teh data of about 4 dozen research papers and showed Nitrates are corals least favorite form of nitrogen and is more deterimental than phosphate. Here's a chart from the paper.

Context‐dependent effects of nutrient loading on the coral–algal mutualism(1).png


"Alkalinity" If you were wondering about Dissolved Inorganic Carbon (DIC), in reef systems it's carbon dioxide, bicarbonate and calcium carbonate. The bicarbanate or HCO3 component makes up over 90% of it in reef ecopsystems. Calcium carbonate and carbon dioxide make up the rest. The ratios vary depending on pH with more calcium carbonate at higher pH and more CO2 at lower pH numbers. Keep it around 7 - 9 dKH.

Fish poop is a critical component of the carbon cycle on reefs as well as an important source of micronutrients for corals. Filter socksor or pads and filter spools will be removing this important component from the ecosystem. Leave it to accumulate in sumps/refugiums, under rocks.

Here's some videos:
"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas " This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title. Used copies are available on line and it may be free to read on Internet Archive. Both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC (carbon dosing) in reef ecosystems and how it can alter coral microbiomes. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems and are an excellent starting point to understand the conflicting roles of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC, aka "carbon dosing") in reef ecosystems.

Delbeek Molar Ratios

Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes

Microbial view of Coral Decline

Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont

BActeria and Sponges Jones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oLDclO7UcM

Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)
https://youtu.be/dGIPveFJ_0Q

Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching
https://youtu.be/oadKezUYkJE

DNA Sequencing and the Reef Tank Microbiome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghxVSmLhxUg

Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"
https://youtu.be/ZRIKW-9d2xI
 

Timfish

Experienced Reefer
Location
Central Texas
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What steps can I take to improve the water quality and overall health of the montipora colonies in my aquarium, given the current maintenance practices and parameters.
plants vs brainrots

And if you want to go down a rabbit hole . . . ;)

Feldman's work at Penn State

Granular Activated Carbon Pt 1

Granular Activated Carbon Pt 2

Total Organic Carbon Pt 1

Total Organic Carbon Pt 2

Protein Skimmer Performance, Pt 1

Protein Skimmer Performance, Pt 2

Elemental Analysis of Skimmate

Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water


Rosset, Wiedenmann and De Angelo

An Experimental Mesocosm for Longterm Studies of Reef Corals

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

More Phosphorus stuff

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts


Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle


Nitrogen Stuff
Ammonium Uptake by Symbiotic and Aposymbiotic Reef Corals

Amino acids a source of nitrogen for corals

Urea a source of nitrogen for corals

Nitrogen cycling in corals: the key to understanding holobiont functioning?

Diazotrpophs a source of nitrogen for corals

Context Dependant Effects of Nutrient Loading on the Coral-Algal Mutualism

Sponge Stuff

Element cycling on tropical coral reefs.
This is Jasper de Geoij's ground breaking research on reef sponge finding some species process labile DOC 1000X faster than bacterioplankton. (The introduction is in Dutch but the content is in English.)

Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle


Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Differential recycling of coral and algal dissolved organic matter via the sponge loop.
Sponges treat DOC from algae differently than DOC from corals

A Vicious Circle? Altered Carbon and Nutrient Cycling May Explain the Low Resilience of Caribbean Coral Reefs

Surviving in a Marine Desert The Sponge Loop Retains Resources Within Coral Reefs
Dissolved organic carbon and nitrogen are quickly processed by sponges and released back into the reef food web in hours as carbon and nitrogen rich detritus.

Natural Diet of Coral-Excavating Sponges Consists Mainly of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC)

The Role of Marine Sponges in Carbon and Nitrogen Cycles of COral Reefs and Nearshore Environments.

Microbially mediated nutrient cycles in marine sponges

DOC Stuff
Aura-biomes are present in the water layer above coral reef benthic macro-organisms


Influence of coral and algal exudates on microbially mediated reef metabolism


Effects of Coral Reef Benthic Primary Producers on Dissolved Organic Carbon and Microbial Activity


Biological oxygen demand optode analysis of coral reef-associated microbial communities exposed to algal exudates


Global microbialization of coral reefs


Visualization of oxygen distribution patterns caused by coral and algae


Macroalgae decrease growth and alter microbial community structure of the reef-building coral, Porites astreoides


Biophysical and physiological processes causing oxygen loss from coral reefs

Excess labile carbon promotes the expression of virulence factors in coral reef bacterioplankton


Differential recycling of coral and algal dissolved organic matter via the sponge loop


Coral and macroalgal exudates vary in neutral sugar composition and differentially enrich reef bacterioplankton lineages

Misc. Stuff

Feeding corals ========================================================





(Note teh difference in feeding live foods in these 2 papers verses the freeze dried in the paper out of Hawai'i)




Growth can't be used as an indicaor of health:




Urchins



 

daniel.mills30

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Had a baby monti show up in one of the systems I take care of!
View attachment 378321
View attachment 378322


There's 4 different monti colonies that could be the parents, a superman, sunset and 2 we don't remember the names of.

Superman Monti
View attachment 378323

Sunset Monti
View attachment 378324

Forgotten Monti #1 (Very fast growing, this is it's second location. Compared to the other 3 montipora colonies, this one grows about 4 times faster.)
View attachment 378325

Forgotten Monti #2
View attachment 378326


This system was set up about 4 years ago. I was asked to take over maintenance about 2 years ago (life happens). Aquarium is a Red Sea 450 with Kessils. No skimmer, filter socks but they haven't been cleaned in over well over 2 years. Refugium with cheatomorpha (slow growing, none was harvested for several years). Return pump and 4 power heads. Water changes varied between monthly and weekly with RO/DI. Feeding is frozen typically once a day. PH 8.1 to 8.4 (API). Alkalinity 5 to 10 dKH (Salifert and API). Calcium 300 mg/l to 420 mg/l (Salifert and API). PO4 undectable to .16 mg/l (Salifert and Red Sea) Nitrates undetectable to 1 mg/l (Salifert and Nyos)

View attachment 378327
That sounds exciting! “Guess the Parents” seems like a fun and engaging way to add some creativity and laughter to the moment.
 

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