Opinions - 4 sides showing

[meschaefer]

This is a great idea. I love the look of Cube tanks, and being able to see it from 4 sides, is almost like having 4 different tanks.

I would move the overflow into the center of the tank, with a single pillar built up around it. If it is viewable on all four sides, you will want room to aquascape on all four sides. With 3 foot in each direction, you will have allot of room, to aquascape that you don't need to off set it.

 

[Sean]

the stand on this tank is real cherry wood

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/general-discussion/36309-what-do-when-tank-leaks.html

 

[jejton]

Personally I love the idea and when I have my own home I'd love to have a planted Amazonian and a reef tank with all sides showing. The only problem I could foresee is that you might have to provide more hiding places than normal so fish have a place of refuge since now the back of the tank is no longer hidden from view.

 

[kimoyo]

Dom - Thanks

Sean - That tank looks very familar, lol. I did like that wood, maybe just a tad darker. We'll see what happens on Sunday, plans might have to be put on hold. Thanks.

Matt - Thanks. Unfortunately, I won't be able to see it on all 4 sides but will be able on 3. Still being able to see thru to a wall is cool for me. I might even put a background up on the wall which might give the illusion of a deeper tank.

Jejton - Thanks, this might actually be fishless. Definitely for the first several months. But I'll make sure to make areas for them to hide.

 

[ellebelle]

Paul, that looks fantastic. I am always so impressed with all of you that make these gorgeous set ups from scratch.

 

[kimoyo]

ellebelle -Thanks.

 

[kimoyo]

Unfortunately my friend won't be able to do the woodwork for 2-3 months so its change my plans a bit. I saw this stand on invincible569's blog

It belongs to a French guy named Stanley. I like it a lot and would like
to do something similar. Here's a new design, its just the metal part without the skin.

I won't be able to have drawers with this stand but 3" increase in available height (while still 28") will allow me to keep my skimmer in the stand. With the skimmer in the stand I won't need the side cabinet and this will open things up a bit.

 

[kimoyo]

So I think I finally have it work out.


(click to enlarge)



The sides are plywood laminated with white formica. Not sure if I should laminate the inside also or stain/paint it. The doors would be cherry and stained. I still need to figure out how the doors will be attached.

The coolest idea I'm looking forward to doing is making a small tank floor. My floor isn't level and a little warped so I was thinking I would make a short box the footprint of the tank and pour self-leveling cement in it. Then maybe put tiles on top.

I got a pm concerned about using a metal stand. The metal will be painted (haven't figure out with what yet) and the sump will be completely sealed. Anything dealing with water on the inside of the stand will be sealed so the only evaporation is out of the tank. I'm using a becket skimmer and the air coming from the collection tube will be exhausted out of the stand. There are a few other things I'm planning on to help with the occasional spill inside the stand but the other reason I'm doing this is because I want to insulate the stand for noise.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Great looking project. I think your overflow column will prove way too small and you might run into flow problems in a square tank.

You can take it one step further by making the "chimney" bigger and incorporating 2" bulkhead in there with a standpipe that would allow you to run wires inside of it so that if you wish you can have your wires going into the canopy without running them outside of the tank. You can put a strip in the canopy allowing you to connect your lights and if later desired couple of powerheads which would mount to the overflow itself. This is the only way to achieve a true unobstructed view of the tank (unless you want to hang ugly cables from the ceiling)

Hope this helps.

 

[kimoyo]

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to write some of this down.

Thanks xoomercom.

Rookie07 mentioned this before and now xoomercom so I thought I should do some calculation. BTW, I found out that cylindrical overflows are popular in Japan.

In this thread Acrylics (James) explains the flow of water thru teeth. He's one of the few people on RC that I would take at his word. He said, "at *max* flow, a 1" deep slot x 1/4" wide will flow about 40gph." So I decided to do some calculations.

Perimeter of 4" cirlce = (2)(pi)(r)
2*3.14*2 = 12.56

1/4 * 0.5 = 20gph => 1"*0.5" = 80gph
1/4 * 0.75 = 30gph => 1"*0.75" = 120gph
1/4 * 1 = 40gph => 1"*1" = 160gph
1/4 * 1.25 = 50gph => 1"*1.25" = 200gph
1/4 * 1.5 = 60gph => 1"*1.5" = 240gph

@ 0.50" => 12.56*80gph = 1004.8gph
@ 0.75" => 12.56*120gph = 1507.2gph
@ 1" => 12.56*160gph = 2009.6gph
@ 1.25" => 12.56*200gph = 2512.0gph
@ 1.5" => 12.56*240gph = 3014.4gph


So with a 4" tube overflow with water draining from 1" above the overflow it can do ~2000gph. I was like cool but then I remembered that I'm using a durso type standpipe (stockman or hofer gurgle buster) and those can do 1200gph or 1500gph in a 1.5" pipe safely. The can do more but then they approach a siphon and can overflow your tank.

This got me thinking back to what I wanted to do in the first place which is Herbie's Silent Overflow System. Herbie utilized a complete siphon meaning no air, the pipe is totally full of water. You match the water returning to the tank by using a ball valve on the drain. This can be dangerous because something can get stuck in the standpipe or if your not careful in setting it up you can flood your tank. Durso's have this same issue but because the standpipe isn't full of water it can compensate by taking in less air and more water. What Herbie purposed was to have an emergency backup pipe which can take any extra flow if something happens to pipe one. The advantages with this system is its completely silent, not quiet like the dursos, but really silent, no noise and not air bubble entering the sump. The reason I went away from it is because I would have to drill at least 2 bulkheads.

But curiosity got me last night so I thought, let me figure out how much gph can go down a 1" pipe at full siphon. Wikipedia has a good description on siphons. Now a siphon depends on the pipe diameter but also the height difference between the tank and the sump. I did some quick calculations to get an estimate, mainly because I didn't account for friction in the pipe itself. Elbows, pipe friction all will reduce the max gph thru the pipe.

Siphon Velocity = sqrt(2*g*h), where g is gravity and h is height difference.

V = sqrt(2*32.174 ft/s^2 * 39") => sqrt(2*32.174 ft/s^2*3.25ft) = 14.46 ft/s

Wikipedia also has a page on flow rate, which says

Q = A * V, Q is flow, A is area and V is velocity. So

Using this site convert ft/s to in/hr and for calculating for a 1" pipe

Q = (14.46 ft/s) * (pi r^2 in^2)
Q = (624671.96 in/hr) * (3.14*0.25 in^2)
Q = (624671.96 in/hr) * (0.785 in^2)
Q = 490367.49 in^3/hr

converting from cubic inches per hour to gph again here, we get

Q = 2122.80 gph

lets take 10% for unaccounted loses and we get ~1900gph.

So I thought is there anything to back up this number or is it complete bs. So I did some searching and luckily someone just asked how much gph can go thru these pipes and this guy just answered here.

I have a 1.5" drain handling a dart sump return with a lot of flow. IME, the fully submerged drain valve can handle all of this flow while nearly closed. It's a little crazy but the 1.5" valve is closed to the point that the opening is maybe 1/2" across. The siphon that is formed from the submerged drain can handle much more flow than my dart could ever put through it.

Half a 1.5 drain is a 1" drain and at 6' the dart does around 2200gph. Now, I don't know this guy's setup or if the valve is actually closed precisely 1/2 way but the numbers are close enough to push me in the direction of doing a siphoned standpipe.

 

[tosiek]

Paul, awesome links and write up on overflows and stuff. Thanks for the links and math.

Careful with the formica, most sold sheets with pre applied formica are chipboard and don't do well when water is present. your gonna have to replace your paneling after a spill or two from the wood swelling.

As for the metal stand, you will be fine, the rust deterioration rate is super slow on most steel tubing and weld lines. Line it with paint or laquer and your set. As for the inside, all depends how your lining the paneling inside. I opt for poly coating the inside instead of just paint. gonna make it more durable inside and if done right and sealed the right way will not soak into the wood/leaking to the floor if you make a spill. Simple inside sleeve of wood will protect the metal stand also.

 

[Sean]

WOW paul you need to get out more.LOL

anyway the siphon standpipe sounds cool but like you said make sure you have a backup (safety first). BTW whats wrong with a little aeration on the way down to the sump? The sound of water is nice as long as there's no sucking noise.

 

[tosiek]

sean come sleep at my house, u'll be awake all night thinking the tanks leaking. =P

 

[kimoyo]

Thank you tosiek, Sean some of us don't change apartments every month like others do. You know, I could have just said it will be fine but then someone else would have said no you won't. It took me much longer writing the post today then it did calculating it last night anyway.

tosiek - I was planning on putting the skin together and then laminating it with the formica. I thought it would give a seamless look but should I just laminate the panels before joining them? Is there a preferred wood for this application? And should I try laminate the edges of the panels in front with a one piece of formica or do each edge individually.

Is it possible to poly the inside and then paint it white?

I actually wanted to skin the inside, I was thinking off putting the insulation sandwiched in between but with my skimmer, those extra 3 inches are critical.

Thanks!

 

[bad coffee]

paul, Kickass!

If you're looking for hidden hinges on the doors, try setting the front uprights back 2-3." Find the right hinges and then space the uprights. If you use 1/8" wallor thicker steel tubing you should be fine.
try www.blum.com for hinges.

B

 

[kimoyo]

Thanks BC!

Nice website. Offsetting the fronts back is something I don't want to do. So I might change the way the doors are placed. But that site had some nice stuff and was informative, hopefully I can figure it out soon.