New In Town, need some Guidance

[MightyMike]

Hey all
I'm new on the block and living in Jersey City. I am super curious about creating a reef tank and am trying to do as much homework as possible about it before investing and then quickly losing thousands. Could use some advice, basic direction, help on some basic dos/don'ts, where people are shopping in Manhattan etc. Let me know if anyone would be willing to take me under a wing . . thanks
If i'm not being specific enough with questions, I feel like I have a million and so I'm hesitant to start firing away, please let me know
Mike

 

[House of Laughter]

MM,

WELCOME TO MANHATTAN REEFS

You will find that there is alot of information here and really friendly reefers who have time tested ways to successfully keep a reef tank.

The one piece of advice I would give you is that reefing is like buying a car - there are some fundementals, like good water quality, lighting, skimming, not overstocking etc, but you will have to develop a style and preference like you would with a car - after all, a car is just a set of wheels and a motor, right

Anyhow, some fundementals that I personally swear by is good live rock (and alot of it), good skimming and good lighting - these are the motor and the wheels for me.

Tank size is also important, as you may not have the room for a larger tank. The larger the tank, the less volitile it may be to changes in temp, quality, salinity etc.

I would post as many questions as you come across in the general discussion forum and watch the asnwers fly.

Good luck, feel free to chew my ear off, and again - welcome to manhattan reefs.

Jim

 

[jhale]

hey Mike welcome to Manhattan Reefs.

It sounds like you have a lot of reading to do
MR is a great source for getting to know people in the area, and everyone will
go out of their way to help you out.
Have you kept fish before either fresh or marine?
do you have an idea of what types of coral you would like to keep,
how large of a tank, and budget.
this hobby costs more than most will admit.
there are many more questions to ask but this is a start.

Jonathan

 

[bad coffee]

Welcome to MR!

First of all, RESEARCH, RESEARCH,RESEARCH! Time spent researching will save you thousands in the end.

I suggest: MR (of course)
www.reefs.org (my favorite board)
www.reefcentral.com
www.wetwebmedia.com

All four sites have LOADS of info that you need to know.

There's only a couple of reef stores in manhattan. New world aquarium is the best store, with the worst policies. Some of the Petlands/Petcos have reef stuff, but not much.

There's a store list here at MR. Check it out!

Now some questions for you!
Have you had fish tanks before?
How patient are you? (be honest. it will help you in the long run)
What's your budget?
What size tank do you really really want?
What kind of tank are you looking to set up?
Do you own or rent your place?

First of all, I reccomend a couple of books:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1890087025/103-5800030-9168655?v=glance

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...3/103-5800030-9168655?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance

And once you get started with corals,

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...3/103-5800030-9168655?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance

 

[DEEPWATER]

Hey mike ,,The one most important thing i learned in this hobby ,,is dont not rush into things ,,take your time with everything ..estabishing a reef tank take lots of time and care ,,asking lots of questions is the way to go .if you deside to buy something ,buy good quaity stuff(smikker.lighting.and a good filtration )and one more thing ,watch your local fish store ,if they see you dont know anything about the hobby you will be sold the world ,,MANHATTAN REEFS has great ppl here to help you ,,GOOD LUCK .if you need any help with the plumbing for your tank ,i could give you a hand ,

 

[MightyMike]

Hey wow, this unreal,
Well I've kept a few feshwater tanks years ago, mostly real little kid stuff, and then finally a generally successful Cichlid tank, but never for more than a few years. I was thinking about some hard and soft coral, but honestly, I just started to learn that there was a difference and LPS and SPS and all that yesterday. My intention was originally a 200 and then thought better of maybe a 120 gal tank to start, not too pretentious, but big enough to really enjoy. I'm a voracious reader and will be coming into a court settlement soon, I was thinking of investing about $4-$5000 to start, I'm not even sure if this is realistic. Also I was in New World aquarium yesterday, what kind of policies were you referring to ?

 

[bad coffee]

Alhough they sometimes ask you what you've got (setup wise) They sold a bunch of fish for a photo shoot without asking what will happen to the fish afterwards. Even the one fish that only ate SPS polyps.

And most of the time the store employees are asses. Sometimes hey're cool, but mostly they suck.

with 4-5k if you go slow, you should be able to get a nice setup going.

Take a look at tanks, (full and empty) and see which dimensions you like the best. Take trips to reef tanks (you're always welcome to come see mine (20 Gal LPS)) and see what you like/don't like!

And always check around. Lots of people have good used stuff for sale! Here, Craigslist, and the othe message boards.

B

 

[MightyMike]

Is it much more difficult to keep a balance of chemicals, trace elements etc. in a much smaller tank?

 

[House of Laughter]

Mike,

I welcome you to come and chek out my new 180 set up. I tried to think of everything on making it happen - science and personal perferences.

Feel free to drop me a line, I'll gladly give you a walk through.

House

 

[GQ22]

slow and steady

Definitely go slow. i didnt put my first fish in my tank till after 5 months or so. After i laid out my sand and base rock I cycled my water for my 120 gallon tank with 5 raw shrimp and just let it decompose.

With the rock, you've probably heard of the need to have alot of live rock, you can do just as well if not better if you first buy base rock (www.reeferrocks.com) and then put in your "live rock". You will save a ton on money doing it this way. The base rock will all eventually become live rock in your tank and you get much better pieces as well. Lots of big shapes and ridges.

For the sand you can do the same. Just buy sand from home depot, and buy some live sand from someone on this board or from a petstore and the whole thing will become live eventually. Save a ton of money this way too.

With the equipment, this is the area you dont want to be cheap on.
Definitely need RO/DI unit, strong lighting for a reef tank, strong flow and a good protein skimmer. These are the key elements. Hope it all goes well!!

 

[House of Laughter]

Mike,

Yes, the larger the water column, the less volitile the environment - consequently, the larger the water colum and problem, the more it costs to remedy. However, the best way to replace chemicals and trace elements is water changes (providing you use a good slat)

House

 

[Deanos]

Many companies that produce marine chemicals and trace elements give dosages for 55+ gallon tanks (once the accepted minimum for marine aquariams). Imagine trying to dose calcium using 1/4 of a capful or 1/3 of a teaspoon :irked:.

 

[jhale]

If you have the time I'd recommend you start by checking out Jims tank. He has the default reef system. I don't think anything is missing
By seeing a well set up tank in person it will answer so many questions you have, and will have
as for tank size, if you have the space and can afford it I'd go with a 180 gallon.
it's a great size, and you won't feel the need to upgrade for a while. remember everytime you increase the tank size the cost of equipment jumps along with it.

there are some good stores in the area. In general if you know exactly what you want you'll get better deals online.
Even buying used equipment is a good way to save money. keep an eye on the for sale section in reef central, people often sell entire setups for less than half what they paid. for $2000 you could end up with an amazing set- up that has been well cared for. I have not and will not add up the cost of my system, I might go into shock

re: New World, my friend was the one with the photo shoot, fish were used as props. I wish he had consulted with me before the job. anyway the stylist went to the store and picked out fish by their colors, it was a ridiculous mix of 11 fish all stuffed into a 40 gallon tank. I could not believe what I was seeing. Some of the nicer fish were lost, but I managed to save some of them by placing them with fellow reefers on this board. shame on you new world, is all I have to say to them.

 

[House of Laughter]

JH,

Thanks for the kind words - I did try to think of everything but I am missing the Calcium reactor, which, is the next purchased/build item. Very exciting

BTW, I have an almost complete 92g corner tank setup in the FS section for $850 - alot less than $2000 and certainly leave a few more grand from your possible 5 grand to play with,

House

 

[Josh]

I think your budget is good, but you may want to think about a 75-125 tank instead of the 200. A 125+ is a lot of maintenance.

I recommend doing a lot of research on tank/system designs and not simply walking into New World and buying what they recommend. You will definately have problems with your tank if you let them design it. Their tanks are built for maintenance, they don't seem to cater to the educated reefer. I can tell you countless stories of them doing strange things with the tank design/layout which ultimately caused major problems. For example, they built a tank for a friend of mine and put the chiller directly underneath the tank (next to the sump and PC lights). The chiller was basically fighting to cool itself. It took some major changes to the tank and stand to resolve that issue, since they built everything as a closed loop with no room for changes.

The most important thing with an aquarium is patience. You have to tell yourself not to fiddle with things every day. Expect it to take 3-6 months to get a small amount of livestock in the tank, don't rush the design, build, live rock/sand cycle, and addition of corals.

If you ask questions here you will definately get a LOT of good information.

 

[MightyMike]

I'm awestruck by all of your help and support, I'm already addicted I think . . . I'll be doing homework for a while, which is fine by me, thanks again everyone

 

[alrha]

Hey Mike. welcome. as you can already see, we are all here to help you out as fellow reefers (with no monetary interests as stores would have). It is basically one big happy family here.

As you may already begin to realize, there is A LOT that goes into a successful tank and MANY MANY details. If you are buying your set-up new, you should make sure that every last detail is researched before a decision is made. from what type of light, what color of light, what brand of light, etc to which pump, which brand, which flow rate, etc. there are millions of things you have to be an expert in. and the best way is by just doing research online, reading articles, reviews, and opinions of more experienced reefers.
btw, if you want that "Natural Reef Aquariums" book, i can give it to you fr $10 if you like. (see geocities.com/alrha/reef.html).

My personal opinion if i were in your position would be to by the complete set-up from Jim (House of Laughter) as you will be able to rest assured that everything is all as it should be. i think it is also a nice size to start out with

 

[nanoreefer22]

Albert, Agreed. It really is one big family we have here. In no time you'll know everyones name and you'll have the faces to put it with. :grouphug:

MM, this site will turn your hobby into an addiction

One word of advice from my experience...buy the best equipment you can the first time to save yourself time, money, money, and did i mention money. I changed my lighting, skimmer, sand, tanks, etc... so many times i could have probably had the ideal set up with all that money. Just make sure you go for the best the first time.

-Kris

 

[alrha]

while everyone says to go with the best the first time, i'll have to disagree.
that would apply to an experienced reefer setting up a tank, as he will know what is the best for him and be able to spend the money on it. but i think for someone starting in the hobby, it is best to first get your feet wet (along with the rest of the living room) with cheaper/used equipment till he gets a feel of whats what and how things work and be in a position to buy the best. otherwise you run the risk of just buying all the most expensive stuff and then find yourself trying to sell it at half price because it is not what you wanted.
this is why i believe that buying a set-up such as Jim's for 850 can be considered tuition to learn everything and then know how to plan the 220 or whatever the right way (plus he can always re-sell this set-up when he is done with it).
For ex. personally i spent 2,000 on two of those spacelights simply because they did not make one in 60" and i did not know enough to order a custom fixture. now that i am ordering a custom 60" fixture for my tank, i find myself barely even getting back half price on those fixtures. that one thing alone now ended up costing me $1,000 - and that was because i went all out and bought the fanciest most expensive fixtures. had i bought them used (at the price i am now selling them) or bought something cheaper, i would not have regretted it.

 

[Deanos]

:approve: Once again...I agree with Albert. Start off with used/inexpensive equipment.

To use Jim's analogy, get a used car. Learn to drive first, before buying that BMW :wink1:. It is easy to say, as experienced reefers, that we would have gotten top stuff the first time around; we know the money and patience required to not only maintain the tank, but also the equipment. What if Mike decides he doesn't like performing water changes when the fish/coral are alive or buying new bulbs when the old ones "look" just as bright? At least he can experience that with less money spent. If he enjoys his reef after several months, he'll upgrade to a bigger tank (most of us have several times already).

Dean