copper question please help

[duke62]

live rock can suck up the copper u treat with

 

[charliethetuna88]

Duke my hippo had ick before a few times and it just went awya on its own bro I never did any of this crap and never had any problems man I don't know y now its bad it always just went away on its own I've been keeping saltwater for over 8 years and never quarantined any thing

 

[duke62]

well like you said you had ick a couple of times.it never went away.and with your move and the stress on the fish from the move the conditions were right for a serious outbreak

 

[charliethetuna88]

My coral is finally doin good again I can't rip the tank apart again man

 

[duke62]

how many fish do u have.i needed to take out a lamark angel he was eating my SPS.reef safe my a$$.i cut a water bottle in half put some food in there tied a fishing line and in 20 min i had him.i even used a laser light once in the 120 to catch a damsel that was nasty and it fell for it and got him out.patience in catching them is really what u need.if u cant try my method of a cleaner and heavy dose of GX.

 

[charliethetuna88]

I'm goin with what u said bro I have 5 cleaner shrimp and a cleaner wrasse the fish are letting them clean them so at least thtas good I bought garlic yeaterday and the fish are all eating with no probalems I have the trigger out so I'm gonna treat his seprate and at the same time ill try and catch the others maybe but I feel like when I stress them out with nets and **** its getting worse maybe I should bust let it be and see what happens. Whatt u think

 

[duke62]

never catch fish with nets.you can damage them.plus you only have a small qt tank depending how many fish u have,all the fish in that small tank might lead to more stress.people may say i am giving bad advise but if you dont get a bigger qt tank and if catching the fish is just to much i would just treat with GX and hope for the best.i know many people on here say this method does nothing but like i said it worked for me.

 

[KathyC]

I got u kathy so I need to remove all fish and starve out the display tank basically right I have a 40 gallon that I'm gonna set up I guess and if the fish don't look better by sat I'm gonna ripe apart the tank again and catch all the fish and threat them all I never had any ich problems and I'm going nuts right now tryin to dicede what to do kathy people are saying that ichs alway in a tank so if I get all the fish out and don't treat the display tank then even though I starve it out won't it come back I'm confused

Yes, they all have to come out unfortunately
The longer you wait the worse it will get and you may start losing fish.
Once all of the fish (hosts) are out of the tank - ICH CANNOT SURVIVE WITHOUT A HOST -IT IS A PARASITE (not yelling, just don't want that missed ) - it will die off.

par?a?site

   /ˈp?r

əˌsaɪt/ Show Spelled[par-uh-sahyt] Show IPA
–noun 1. an organism that lives on or in an organism of another species, known as the host, from the body of which it obtains nutriment.

IMO it is not true that ich is always in a tank.
I have sat here for years reading threads on ich and I truly do not believe that it is in every tank.

IMO people believe that because they post 'I haven't added any new fish in (pick a time frame...), how can I have ich?'
So many threads...
My thought is many folks get it in corals they buy that come from a tank that has Ich in it.
Frightening thought isn't it?
..and a good reason to QT everything you put in your tank.
I have walked away from buying frags when I see Ich on the fish in a tank I am buying from (really wish folks who know they have Ich wouldn't sell frags (also sand, chaeto, rock...) from their tanks out of respect to others...)
If there is just 1 living ich parasite in something you add to your tank..and remember tomonts (the reporductive stage) can live for up to 35 days (that is the max I have seen written about in various studies, but this usually averages around 28 days), so anything you purchased within the past 35 days could be the cause of an outbreak.
This is also why it is suggested you leave your tank fallow for 4-6 weeks AFTER an outbreak - to be sure the Ich Parasite is dead.

If Ich was in EVERY tank - nobody would ever be able to get rid of it.

..as I said IMO...

Charlie - try and look at it as a new chance to re-aquascape. I know getting the fish out is a royal pita, but it's the only way to irradicate it from your tank.

 

[Awibrandy]

James, you are right on all accounts. Sometimes just leaving the fish alone, and not stressing them will be better for them (meaning the strong survivor ones that is!). But on most instances leaving the fish untreated can, and will lead to certain death in most instances. Sometimes a person gets lucky, and their fish will make it, but like I said those are survivor fish to begin with. How do you know for a fact that you have "survivor" fish? You don't!! You would just be taking a risk.
I have had both outcomes to both methods you have suggested.

Charlie, If your QT is small you will not be able to contain all the fish you have in it unless of course the fish in question are all tiny. Can you get a larger tank to use a QT, or a rubber maid bin?

Obviously all the recommendations given on this thread are valid, and with the best interest of the fish at heart.
Charlie, ultimately the decision is your's to make. Either way there is no guarantee that your fish will pull through this. Although their better chances are always in the treating them.

 

[duke62]

by the way GX.GARLIC EXTREME

 

[duke62]

if you do treat.DO NOT treat without a test kit.

 

[Awibrandy]

if you do treat.DO NOT treat without a test kit.

DITTO, plus make sure the test kit goes with the type of copper you are treating with.
chaetaled vs non-chelated.

 

[duke62]

if u want me to come by tonight send me ur address..PM it to me

 

[charliethetuna88]

cheated or not

 

[Awibrandy]

cheated or not

Here is something I found in a quick 1 second search:

* There are two different copper treatments, one chelated, and the other ionic
* Copper treatments are for treating external fish infections, mainly marine protozoan diseases, and are toxic to most aquatic invertebrates
* Copper treatments, which are with the heavy metal cupric ion, need to be carefully administered so that they are not overdosed
* Chelated copper treatments release copper ions in the water over time, and function as a disease preventative
* Copper ion treatments are fully active as soon as they are put in the water, and are an immediate treatment
* Both copper treatments are mainly for one time treatments, because multiple treatments over successive days could build up excess copper ions in the water that are toxic to fishes
* Copper treatments need to be removed at the end of the treatment, which is done by water changes or far more effectively by the use of Kordon NovAqua Plus? or NovAqua? or Fish Protector? = PolyAqua products
* Copper treatments are mainly recommended for saltwater conditions, because copper is more toxic to fishes in fresh water
* Excessive copper in the water is harmful to fishes. Dosages need to be done accurately so as not to overdose. If there is an overdose, a Kordon NovAqua product should be used to remove the copper
* When practical, the use of a quarantine or hospital tank is recommended when treating with copper.
Chelated Copper Products. Chelated copper treatments are used to suppress diseases in aquarium keeping, particularly for marine aquarium keeping. The chelated copper is usually a heterocyclic (containing a closed ring of atoms) compound having a metal ion attached by coordinate bonds to nonmetal ions. This means that the copper ions in the chelated copper treatment are bound to a compound and are inactive. When the treatment is used, the copper ions are released by the heterocyclic compound into the water gradually over time, often over days or longer, thereby becoming active copper ions when released from the compound.
Click here: Kordon LLC - Kordon - Articles - Copper

 

[charliethetuna88]

Now I'm even more confused lol I'm using copper power I'm not sure if its chleated or not anyone know its suppossed to be a little less toxic to the fish it was recommened to me by a few diff people and stores

 

[marrone]

Don't worry about what type of copper it is, just get it up to the correct level.

 

[charliethetuna88]

Ok I'm gonna pick up a test kit after work oh another question is do I change out any of the water in the hospitail tank if so how often and I should use water outta my main tank to to this I'm guessing right I don't have a skimmer on the hospiatail tank either just a heater and foam little filter that works with an airpump

 

[Awibrandy]

Sorry Charlie didn't mean to confuse you!

Mike, I have been under the impression that using the correct test kit is important. Hence my reference to chelated/non chelated copper. Am I wrong on this? Does it not matter what test kit one uses to test for the copper value in the tank?

 

[Awibrandy]

Ok I'm gonna pick up a test kit after work oh another question is do I change out any of the water in the hospitail tank if so how often and I should use water outta my main tank to to this I'm guessing right I don't have a skimmer on the hospiatail tank either just a heater and foam little filter that works with an airpump

Yes you have to do w/c, and I would use water from the DT. How often depends on how often the water becomes fowled, so you gotta test.
No skimmer necessary in a hospital tank. Do syphon from the bottom so you can pick up the debris that falls to the floor.