Frag swaps now illegal

[albano]

IN FLORIDA... got this from another forum...
"Attending Macna and had a chance to talk to the FWC folks. They were issuing warnings to a good many of the vendors in the exhibit hall today if that tells you how it went! I spoke to Lieutenant Brown. He basically said as things stand right now (rules and laws), anyone selling, trading, auctioning or taking frags to their LFS for credit is committing an offense and can be fined and/or imprisoned if they don't have the proper permits, licenses and certifications. He told me they have people dedicated to checking out e-bay, craigs list and now forums. If the transaction originates or terminates in Florida, they will be targeting those people. You need an aquaculture certificate if you are the one doing the fragging with the intent to sell or barter. You need a saltwater retail license if you are selling it to individuals. You need a wholesale license to sell or trade with a retail store (LFS). If you sell something you collected from the wild you need a commercial fishing license.

If you are interested in finding out more about current rules and regulations please feel free to e-mail Lieutenant Brown @ [email protected]. Please be polite as I don't want anyone to give our hobby a bad name. I told him that we are basically interested in knowing the rules particularly if it involves fines and jail time. He said he is glad to spend some time explaining this to anyone who wishes to have more info. I don't want to go to a frag swap/auction and end up fined or arrested so from what I gathered, frag swaps/auctions are dead in Florida unless you want to spend a couple of hundred dollars a year for the appropriate licenses and permits.
....Yes, you read it correctly. If you buy something from a LFS, say it outgrows your tank, or for whatever reason you no longer want it in your tank (like maybe it's an aggressive fish or a sea urchin) - you are supposed to have a license to then part with that item. Whether you sell it to someone locally, or trade it to the LFS or choose to give it away- there is supposed to be a license that can be checked if an officer comes to see. ... We are encouraged to buy the items.. to support the hobby and reduce the effects put on the reefs- but then cannot do anything with it from the point of purchase unless we buy a license. Discouraging indeed. "

 

[Chraddam]

Wow. I wonder if this was brought on by the oil spill, or lobbyists.

 

[angel125]

Got a fix for that if they will be comming into the forums to sneek around..lol.. here is what we need to say ...giving away such and such give me a call to meet up..there we can negotiate a price...lol..J/K...

 

[qy7400]

Don't believe the this has anything to do with the spill or lobbyists, Florida like everywhere else is probably strapped for cash so they are now enforcing the laws to try and close their budget gaps. What has me confused is they put the laws in place to protect the reefs, a good thing, but are pushing people to purchase from the LFS and away from conservation and hobbyist aquaculture, a very bad thing. It seems Florida completely over looked this from a hobbyist point of view when it wrote this law.

 

[albano]

Wow. I wonder if this was brought on by the oil spill, or lobbyists.

legislation was definitely started BEFORE oil spill...been following this thread since May..."A local reefer here in Ocala, Florida had an ad out for a Tang for sale she no longer wanted in her tank. She was contacted by a person wanting to buy it he went to her home and made the deal then pulled out a Badge showing he was with Florida Wildlife Commission and said she just broke the law. "

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1849850

 

[Mattl22]

This is the biggest bunch of bull I have ever heard just another way for the thieves and liars that run our government to get there hands on more money from us

 

[Deep Dive Coral]

this is absolutely rediculous. does anyone have any idea how much this license cost... or is it in every state..... or just in florida....

 

[JARRETT SHARK]

they proberly just want a pay off under the table, if not this sucks!!!

 

[qy7400]

this is absolutely rediculous. does anyone have any idea how much this license cost... or is it in every state..... or just in florida....

Florida only but does apply if you buy/sell a frag to someone in Florida.

 

[JARRETT SHARK]

soon it going to fell like selling drugs, get pulled over and officer says whats in the bag and you say a frag, he says hands behind your back your going to jail,LOL

 

[Deep Dive Coral]

well i feel extreamly sorry for all the good people that are going to MACNA if they have to deal with this bs. matter of fact i feel sorry for every personm in this hobby that try to do the right thing and still gets stomped on and spit on while down. when does it end.

 

[Chraddam]

legislation was definitely started BEFORE oil spill...been following this thread since May..."A local reefer here in Ocala, Florida had an ad out for a Tang for sale she no longer wanted in her tank. She was contacted by a person wanting to buy it he went to her home and made the deal then pulled out a Badge showing he was with Florida Wildlife Commission and said she just broke the law. "

"I'm Chris Hanson...why don't you come in and have a glass of saltwater and a piece of kelp so we can talk..."

 

[albano]

Good news, everyone...I have obtained a 'special' license, that will cover our upcoming swap...anyone that wishes to participate in the buying/selling or trading of corals, can be covered under this 'special' license, for a fee of only $20 for the year. Please make out checks to Corals Are Sold Honestly, or C.A.S.H. for short, and mail them to me. (Sorry, for legal reasons, I can NOT accept frags in lieu of payment)

 

[JARRETT SHARK]

Lmao

 

[prattreef]

This is a Florida only thing and kind of much ado about nothing. It has had zero impact on the conference other than an annoyance for some vendors and a topic of conversation.

 

[Widdy]

This is a Florida only thing and kind of much ado about nothing. It has had zero impact on the conference other than an annoyance for some vendors and a topic of conversation.

+1 Vendors were selling as usual... great times! Met some great people and sat in on some incredible speakers. Loved Ken Feldman's TOC talk... I feel like a schmuck now investing what I did on a big skimmer.

Cya back in the city, Randy!

 

[Dre]

Why don't they go and save some whales that are been slaughtered daily or something ? On a serious note this could be bitter sweet .Have we forgotten the devastation brought on by the INVATION of the Snake Eels and their cousins,the Lion fishes,the Asian jumping Carp? How they have impacted our local waters and our back yards? On another note before you can buy corals or fishes you should be certified .You should take a mandatory 10 hour environment /reef class and coral /fish care class before you get your certificate .Most people do more killing than saving at first.You should present your card or certificate with a photo of you on it at the LFS/Swap etc. This would save alot of animals and thousands of dollar and the environment. Whatever they do i hope it will benefit the environment .

 

[JARRETT SHARK]

Why don't they go and save some whales that are been slaughtered daily or something ? On a serious note this could be bitter sweet .Have we forgotten the devastation brought on by the INVATION of the Snake Eels and their cousins,the Lion fishes,the Asian jumping Carp? How they have impacted our local waters and our back yards? On another note before you can buy corals or fishes you should be certified .You should take a mandatory 10 hour environment /reef class and coral /fish care class before you get your certificate .Most people do more killing than saving at first.You should present your card or certificate with a photo of you on it at the LFS/Swap etc. This would save alot of animals and thousands of dollar and the environment. Whatever they do i hope it will benefit the environment .

good idea but to many LFS would go out of bussiness

 

[Salty Dog]

what BS, anything for the goverment to make a buck with out any concern for mother nature

 

[qy7400]

Well an interesting update....

From MACNA and a discussion with Florida FWC enforcement and policy people with the Florida marine clubs:

If you are farming corals, you need an Aquaculture certificate from the Department of Agriculture. Nothing new here, it's been required for ornamentals, fresh and salt, for years. If you have this certificate, FWC will not continue with any enforcement against you since you fall under the Ag department and their control and inspection.

If you are selling frags at swaps, hobbyist level, you do not need any licensing or certification. You do need to provide proof of origin, which means the original sales receipt from where you got the mother colony. Keep records and you're not in trouble. There is no saltwater license required by FWC for corals since they are not a specifically defined genera that needs a license. THIS INTERPRETATION IS NEW AND CAME FROM RESEARCH DONE BY FWC AS A RESULT OF MACNA AND FLORIDA MARINE CLUBS. IT IS OFFICIAL AS OF THIS AM.

The proof of origin is to protect you from being charged with illegal collection of corals. Note that Echinoderms, clams, starfish, urchins, etc. DO require a saltwater products license since they are specifically defined under the law.

If you are selling fish, that does require a saltwater products license since they are specifically defined under the laws. Retail license if selling to the retail, wholesale if selling wholesale.

You are not allowed to own, whether selling or otherwise, protected species retrieved from Florida waters. This includes most gorgonians from Florida waters. If it was collected outside Florida, it's legal, just make sure you have the receipt. This has always been the case. There is a loophole for any protected species that came attached to a piece of aquacultured live rock where it is legal to posess it, make sure you have a record of where you bought the live rock.

If you are selling any product retail in Florida, you have always been responsible for collecting and remitting Florida sales tax. If you earn income from the sale of corals or what not, as defined by the IRS, you are responsible for declaring that income and paying appropriate taxes to the IRS. These have nothing to do with corals, reefs, frags, swapping, hobby or anything else. This has been a fact of life as long as anyone on this forum has been alive, and really isn't part of the discussion.

Time to save those receipts!