what is the best way to do an initial setup for a 125g
- Thread starter mic_1011
- Start date
- Location
- Brooklyn, NY
If he is not starting a reef, the wet dry could work for his purposes. You just need to ensure you are running the correct media. You also might want to look at running carbon on your tank (ESV or Chemi-Pure).
As for the RODI, I would suggest you use it for even just the FOWLR setup. It helps to combat algae outbreaks, because the water has alot less nutrients(and other things) in it than Tap water. I used to use tap water when I first started, then I started going to the supermarket for filtered water, now I have an RODI and I can see a clear difference.
Do you have any powerheads in the tank to give some flow? This is very important to supporting a healthy tank.
As for the ich problem, there are tons of threads on here about that. I prefer to try a semi-natural approach - cleaner shrimp, raise the temp to about 80, and supplement the food supply with garlic extract (I use the one from Kent). I have only had this problem once though. Everyone has their own way, you have to figure out what works for you.
At the end of the day, there are tons of additional things you can buy to make your tank better. You need to sit down and map out what fish you are trying to keep, then plan your filtration, media, supplements, equipment, etc around that list.
As for the RODI, I would suggest you use it for even just the FOWLR setup. It helps to combat algae outbreaks, because the water has alot less nutrients(and other things) in it than Tap water. I used to use tap water when I first started, then I started going to the supermarket for filtered water, now I have an RODI and I can see a clear difference.
Do you have any powerheads in the tank to give some flow? This is very important to supporting a healthy tank.
As for the ich problem, there are tons of threads on here about that. I prefer to try a semi-natural approach - cleaner shrimp, raise the temp to about 80, and supplement the food supply with garlic extract (I use the one from Kent). I have only had this problem once though. Everyone has their own way, you have to figure out what works for you.
At the end of the day, there are tons of additional things you can buy to make your tank better. You need to sit down and map out what fish you are trying to keep, then plan your filtration, media, supplements, equipment, etc around that list.
- Location
- Kings Park, NY
Yes, you will have to cycle your quarantine tank. Start it up and throw a cocktail shrimp from the supermarket In the tank.
If you are doing a fish only setup, you can use bio-balls in your wet/dry filter if you want.
With your live rock you don't really need it though ( as long as you don't over stock your tank). They will definitely cause a nitrate build up. Not so horrible if you have fish only, but bad if you plan to have corals. I personally would ditch the bio balls and do a sump with a refugium.
If you are doing a fish only setup, you can use bio-balls in your wet/dry filter if you want.
With your live rock you don't really need it though ( as long as you don't over stock your tank). They will definitely cause a nitrate build up. Not so horrible if you have fish only, but bad if you plan to have corals. I personally would ditch the bio balls and do a sump with a refugium.
i have a powerhead 402 for flow. i was also using kent garlic extract. how would i go about doing a sump/refug setup. are they sold just like a wet dry or should i build it. does a sump still filter and how? my understanding is a wet dry builds bacteria to filter
- Location
- westchester ny
Ive talked to a lot of people just getting in to the hobby who wanted to do a fowlr. The problem is that they get alot of advice on how to do a f.o. tank and forgt they have the live rock.
Filtration:
If you are going to put 100lbs of live rock in the tank you need to treeat the system as if it were a reef. Granted you are not going to need a calc reactor or super intense lighting, but for filtration purposes you want to treat it like a reef. If you're wet/dry has room for a skimmer you can still use it, just take out all of the bio balls. Find a pura pad that fits in your drip tray and use that instead of the sponge/pad in there now. you can also run some phos guard or phos band in a media bag where the bio balls used to be.
Skimming:
If you've had trouble in the past (it sounds like you have), try over skimming. What I mean by this is as follows: Try and find a skimmer that states it can handle a 200 gal or more system. What skimmer to get depends on how much room you have. check out what other people are using and when your ready to order something post it first and get some more opinions. If I was going to buy a new skimmer Id call reefgeeks and see what they suggest, theyve helped me out alot in the past and they are one of the few online sites i trust to order stuff from. I dont work for Reefgeeks so this endorsement is based purely on my experience buying from them. If i was going to buy a used skimmer id pm nyreefnoob cus im sure hed have something good lying around lol.
Make sure you have good water movement over your live rock since in a reef tank or fowlr the rock and sand is where most of the denitrification is going to take place.
Water changes:
I personally like to do about 10-15% a week depending on what my levels are. Even 5% a week is probably sufficient if you make sure to do it EVERY week. Its better to do smaller water changes more often then to do big water changes once and a while. Since your not keeping corals just about any commercial salt should be fine (Id suggest oceanic). I make my water the day before i plan on using it and once its mixed i run an airstone in it (helps salt dissolve and increases O2) It is important to use ro/di water to keep nutrient levels low. I dont have a unit (no room in my apt.) so I struck a deal with a nearby reefer for $20 a month he makes me 10 gallons a week. If you cant get an ro unit for w/e reason talk to your lfs or another reefer and see if you can work something out. Its a huge pain in the a$$ but its THAT important
Supplements:
Since you have live rock you are going to need a two part calcium supplement. ESV b ionic is what i would use. Follow there minimum dosing reccos since theres no coral in the tank. I would also pick up a bottle of trace elements and follow the minimum dosing on that as well. To get started you might also want to consider a bottle of mb7 by brightwell. Im not a huge fan of brightwells stuff but the bacteria (mb7) is worth picking up. It will jump start your biological filter and help replace bacteria removed by water changes/skimming. Saltwater decholrinator (even if you use ro its good to have a bottle on hand). Whenever I have to put my hands in the tank (do this as little as possible) I wash my hands then pour a little dechlorinator on my hands and spread it around.
Test Kits/tools:
Ditch the hydrometer and get a refractometer. You need tests for the following: Calcium, Hardness, PH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Phosphate. By staying on top of what the levels are in your tank you are going to remove a lot of guess work from the equation, itll also build your confidence. Youll need several buckets w lids, an air pump and stone (for new water not for tank), enough powerheads to turn your tank over 10x an hour. And probably some other stuff Im forgetting
Setting up from scratch:
fill the tank about 3/4's of the way and mix the salt right into the tank running the powerheads and heater. Once the salt is dissolved and your specific gravity is 1.023-1.025 add your sand. Be carefull while adding the sand, aragonite can burn the glass and leave a scratch at the surface of the water, so make sure a powerhead is pushing the water around at the surface to keep the foam from the sand from burning your glass. Once the sand is in add the rock make sure you place them securely and if you are not bonding them together dont stack them in a way that can lead to a collapse. Make sure and leave enough clearance from the sides so you can clean the glass. Once the sand and rock is in top off the tank with premixed water and start your filtration. The suspended aragonite is going to make your skimmer go nuts and might require you to clean any pads or sponges.
When the water is clear and the temp. is correct check your levels make any adjustments you need to then add a cube of mysis and a capful of mb7. DO NOT put live stock in your tank yet (*There are a number of ways to cycle a tank Im just going to go over how i do it) What you can add and I actually reccomend doing this is adding some chaeto or garciaris (seaweed for lack of a better term) avoid calurpa cus it has a tendancy to go sexual and dump all of its chlorophyl and bound nutrients into the water every once and a while. These plants will assist in nutirent reduction, the provide habitat for microfauna, and are laden with beneficial bacteria. Now that the tank is set up wait ATLEAST 2 weeks (3-4 weeks would be even better). During this time feel free to top off the system to deal with evaporation (just use fresh water since salt doesnt evaporate and continue to monitor your levels). Im not gonna explain the ammonia/nitrogen cycle cus you can just google it, but even if you dont notice a spike in ammonia or nitrite you still wanna wait for as long as you can stand it.
When youre finally ready to add fish, select a hardy species (many stores try and sell you damsels for this but dont add a fish to your tank that you dont want as a long term resident) start off with maybe 1/5 of the total number of fish you want to keep. Take your time and plan ahead , add less aggressive species first so they can establish a territory. After you add your first fish monitor the levels closely for the next week or so, if things remain stable begin your routine of water changes and continue to add fish. *a note on adding fish, less is more sometimes and this is one of those situations do not overload the tank with fish. Youll see more natural behavior and have happier healthier fish by giving them more space to roam. Im doing a 120 pretty soon and I only plan on keeping 8 small fish (under three inches). If you want larger species like triggers, puffers, etc. you need to budget even more space for them since there bioload is significantly more than an equivilant length of smaller fish.
Im tired of typing but this should get you started. Just remember to test ur levels, do your water changes, and most importantly be patient. Feel free to pm if you have any questions
Filtration:
If you are going to put 100lbs of live rock in the tank you need to treeat the system as if it were a reef. Granted you are not going to need a calc reactor or super intense lighting, but for filtration purposes you want to treat it like a reef. If you're wet/dry has room for a skimmer you can still use it, just take out all of the bio balls. Find a pura pad that fits in your drip tray and use that instead of the sponge/pad in there now. you can also run some phos guard or phos band in a media bag where the bio balls used to be.
Skimming:
If you've had trouble in the past (it sounds like you have), try over skimming. What I mean by this is as follows: Try and find a skimmer that states it can handle a 200 gal or more system. What skimmer to get depends on how much room you have. check out what other people are using and when your ready to order something post it first and get some more opinions. If I was going to buy a new skimmer Id call reefgeeks and see what they suggest, theyve helped me out alot in the past and they are one of the few online sites i trust to order stuff from. I dont work for Reefgeeks so this endorsement is based purely on my experience buying from them. If i was going to buy a used skimmer id pm nyreefnoob cus im sure hed have something good lying around lol.
Make sure you have good water movement over your live rock since in a reef tank or fowlr the rock and sand is where most of the denitrification is going to take place.
Water changes:
I personally like to do about 10-15% a week depending on what my levels are. Even 5% a week is probably sufficient if you make sure to do it EVERY week. Its better to do smaller water changes more often then to do big water changes once and a while. Since your not keeping corals just about any commercial salt should be fine (Id suggest oceanic). I make my water the day before i plan on using it and once its mixed i run an airstone in it (helps salt dissolve and increases O2) It is important to use ro/di water to keep nutrient levels low. I dont have a unit (no room in my apt.) so I struck a deal with a nearby reefer for $20 a month he makes me 10 gallons a week. If you cant get an ro unit for w/e reason talk to your lfs or another reefer and see if you can work something out. Its a huge pain in the a$$ but its THAT important
Supplements:
Since you have live rock you are going to need a two part calcium supplement. ESV b ionic is what i would use. Follow there minimum dosing reccos since theres no coral in the tank. I would also pick up a bottle of trace elements and follow the minimum dosing on that as well. To get started you might also want to consider a bottle of mb7 by brightwell. Im not a huge fan of brightwells stuff but the bacteria (mb7) is worth picking up. It will jump start your biological filter and help replace bacteria removed by water changes/skimming. Saltwater decholrinator (even if you use ro its good to have a bottle on hand). Whenever I have to put my hands in the tank (do this as little as possible) I wash my hands then pour a little dechlorinator on my hands and spread it around.
Test Kits/tools:
Ditch the hydrometer and get a refractometer. You need tests for the following: Calcium, Hardness, PH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Phosphate. By staying on top of what the levels are in your tank you are going to remove a lot of guess work from the equation, itll also build your confidence. Youll need several buckets w lids, an air pump and stone (for new water not for tank), enough powerheads to turn your tank over 10x an hour. And probably some other stuff Im forgetting
Setting up from scratch:
fill the tank about 3/4's of the way and mix the salt right into the tank running the powerheads and heater. Once the salt is dissolved and your specific gravity is 1.023-1.025 add your sand. Be carefull while adding the sand, aragonite can burn the glass and leave a scratch at the surface of the water, so make sure a powerhead is pushing the water around at the surface to keep the foam from the sand from burning your glass. Once the sand is in add the rock make sure you place them securely and if you are not bonding them together dont stack them in a way that can lead to a collapse. Make sure and leave enough clearance from the sides so you can clean the glass. Once the sand and rock is in top off the tank with premixed water and start your filtration. The suspended aragonite is going to make your skimmer go nuts and might require you to clean any pads or sponges.
When the water is clear and the temp. is correct check your levels make any adjustments you need to then add a cube of mysis and a capful of mb7. DO NOT put live stock in your tank yet (*There are a number of ways to cycle a tank Im just going to go over how i do it) What you can add and I actually reccomend doing this is adding some chaeto or garciaris (seaweed for lack of a better term) avoid calurpa cus it has a tendancy to go sexual and dump all of its chlorophyl and bound nutrients into the water every once and a while. These plants will assist in nutirent reduction, the provide habitat for microfauna, and are laden with beneficial bacteria. Now that the tank is set up wait ATLEAST 2 weeks (3-4 weeks would be even better). During this time feel free to top off the system to deal with evaporation (just use fresh water since salt doesnt evaporate and continue to monitor your levels). Im not gonna explain the ammonia/nitrogen cycle cus you can just google it, but even if you dont notice a spike in ammonia or nitrite you still wanna wait for as long as you can stand it.
When youre finally ready to add fish, select a hardy species (many stores try and sell you damsels for this but dont add a fish to your tank that you dont want as a long term resident) start off with maybe 1/5 of the total number of fish you want to keep. Take your time and plan ahead , add less aggressive species first so they can establish a territory. After you add your first fish monitor the levels closely for the next week or so, if things remain stable begin your routine of water changes and continue to add fish. *a note on adding fish, less is more sometimes and this is one of those situations do not overload the tank with fish. Youll see more natural behavior and have happier healthier fish by giving them more space to roam. Im doing a 120 pretty soon and I only plan on keeping 8 small fish (under three inches). If you want larger species like triggers, puffers, etc. you need to budget even more space for them since there bioload is significantly more than an equivilant length of smaller fish.
Im tired of typing but this should get you started. Just remember to test ur levels, do your water changes, and most importantly be patient. Feel free to pm if you have any questions
thank you so much adam for taking the time out to explain in detail your process. i think i am ready to get this new tank started or atleast in the cycle stages. if anyone else would care to add their 2cents, i will take it in stride and it will be appreciated. i will update every so often what steps i have taken
- Location
- westchester ny
I want to comment on the whole "nitrate factory" thing. Live rock can be a nitrate factory if your nutrient levels are too hi. Nitrate is the end result of the nitrogen cycle, and all biological filtration (be it live rock, bio balls, or otherwise) is going to create nitrates. The way to deal with nitrates is to remove them via water changes. If you only had like 1/2 lb of LR per gallon it might be worth it to keep the bio balls depending on your bio load, but since you have so much live rock you dont need it. Just dont overstock the tank, be careful not to overfeed and stay on top of your water changes using purified water and you'll be fine
- Location
- Sound Beach,LI
Live rock also has anaerobic bacteria that eats up nitrates, so how would it cause nitrates?
The rock should be added prior to the sand.
The rock must sit on the bottom of the tank so that it is stable. Many fish tend to dig sand out from beneath the rock and that will put you in serious danger of a rock collapse if you don't put the rock in first.
The rock must sit on the bottom of the tank so that it is stable. Many fish tend to dig sand out from beneath the rock and that will put you in serious danger of a rock collapse if you don't put the rock in first.
- Location
- westchester ny
this is true, but if nutrient levels are too high you will still end up with a nitrate problem if proper water change routine isnt followed. There are also nitrate removal products that do work, but nothing takes the place of water changes... that was what i was trying to get across to the thread starter
You mentioned your anemone dying which killed your tank. I think the most important part of this hobby is researching your livestock online (not in your LFS) before you make a purchase. Then make sure you meet and exceed the requirements to maintain them.
Whether you quarantine or not, I don't. Use a refractometer or not, I don't. Or whatever filter sump skimmer you choose. The single most important thing to remember is to research your livestock BEFORE you buy.
Had you googled anemone you would have learned that your lights are completely inadequate and you tank is way too new to support one. It inevitably died and flooded your tank with crap that turned toxic.
All of what has been mentioned before contains some good and bad info but diligently researching and moving slowly in this hobby is key. And this. Cannot be stressed enough.
Good luck going forward.
Whether you quarantine or not, I don't. Use a refractometer or not, I don't. Or whatever filter sump skimmer you choose. The single most important thing to remember is to research your livestock BEFORE you buy.
Had you googled anemone you would have learned that your lights are completely inadequate and you tank is way too new to support one. It inevitably died and flooded your tank with crap that turned toxic.
All of what has been mentioned before contains some good and bad info but diligently researching and moving slowly in this hobby is key. And this. Cannot be stressed enough.
Good luck going forward.
thanks. i've been reading and researching since i started this thread. what i decided to do is start fresh and research all live stock and any additions. so now i'm in the process of building a 40 gallon breeder sump to use under my 125 non rr. i only transferred my live rock about 100lbs. i am picking up a reverse osmosis unit on sat 75gal/day. just picked up an asm g3 from ocholoco on mr, great deal. thanx mario! looking for an overflow and a decent return pump, also a uv steralizer. once all is setup and cycling i will get the refugium going. i think i should be good from there. and again any suggestions or advice is always taken in stride.
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