Sugar dosing

[lfsmarineguy]

you don't need a reactor for any of this media, it just works a lot better in a reactor and is more efficient as far as maximum contact with water. There is no comparison between zeolites and GFO. GFO absorbs Po4 but is limited by the amount and zeolites can actually allow bacterias that EAT nitrates and Po4 to colonize on and in them. There are several companies that sell them as part of an entire tank regimen but a lot of the stuff isn't necessary to a degree. Just a few things and you're up and running.

 

[kris]

Try the formula in this article.

http://glassbox-design.com/2008/achieved-through-observation-and-experimentation/

 

[grundig5]

There are regular old zeolites that I believe are used in a reactor to adsorb certain materials (I think Seachem makes some?)? And of course the full blown zeovit system which involves a hand pump zeolite reactor and multiple dosings of other elements. The latter is a tough and expensive system, but definately interesting. It sounds like GFO would be the best option for you, just go very slowly with it, use a reactor, and dont add a lot to start. Unless you really know what you're getting into with Carbon dosing, its probably not worth the problems it can create (the ones Deanos alluded to). GFO can be problematic as well though.

 

[Wes]

as a former user of a popular zeolite system and current GFO user my advice is to use GFO.

Much more efficient at PO4 removal and alot easier/simpler to use.

you don't need a reactor for any of this media, it just works a lot better in a reactor and is more efficient as far as maximum contact with water. There is no comparison between zeolites and GFO. GFO absorbs Po4 but is limited by the amount and zeolites can actually allow bacterias that EAT nitrates and Po4 to colonize on and in them. There are several companies that sell them as part of an entire tank regimen but a lot of the stuff isn't necessary to a degree. Just a few things and you're up and running.

You are making it sound WAY too simple which can be dangerous. Zeolite systems should only be attempted by the advanced aquarist. The smallest thing can go wrong and totally wipe out a reef. Also, I use a Hanna Colorimeter to monitor phosphates and Zeolite systems do not even compete with a simple phosban reactor and some GFO. In fact, there are many Zeolite users who use GFO periodically to bring the PO4 back down to optimal levels.

 

[tosiek]

If you guys do some research on the vodka (italian) method its not about the sugar/vodka lowering nitrates and Po4 directly. Its about propogating bacteria to do so. And Its not just "this amount of sugar lowers this much P04". The sugar and alcohol is just a food base for the bacteria. Its the same methodology behind the zeovit system and the fauna marine one. Only difference is that you aren't provided a bacteria culture like you are in the zeovit and fauna one.

Also, this method has been used super successfully by people overseas over a long period of time, here it only really works for the beginning of the bacterial growth cycle then people get stagnant results or a decline in their system. Certain parts of Europe have better results than others. Either it be type of vodka/sugar, the water supply used to make water, or the countless other differences.

 

[grundig5]

If you guys do some research on the vodka (italian) method its not about the sugar/vodka lowering nitrates and Po4 directly. Its about propogating bacteria to do so. And Its not just "this amount of sugar lowers this much P04". The sugar and alcohol is just a food base for the bacteria. Its the same methodology behind the zeovit system and the fauna marine one. Only difference is that you aren't provided a bacteria culture like you are in the zeovit and fauna one.

And hence the need for an excellent skimmer, to pull these bacteria out once they have bound NO3 and PO4. Actually, do the bac cultures bind NO3 or complete the nitrogen cycle releasing N2? Anyone know?

 

[tosiek]

I doubt anything natural will bind anything in the tank. It goes in one way and comes out the other.

 

[noodleman]

And hence the need for an excellent skimmer, to pull these bacteria out once they have bound NO3 and PO4. Actually, do the bac cultures bind NO3 or complete the nitrogen cycle releasing N2? Anyone know?

i'm not completely positive, but i think that the bacteria uses the nitrogen and phosphate to build DNA strands as they multiply :scratchch

 

[GQ22]

stick with the GFO. 3ml of vodka and 2 tsps of sugar worked for me on my 125 gallong. Did this for a few days in a row, ended with an algae bloom, crazy skimmer, and then when things cleared up, all my hair algae died. i stopped doing this once i achieved this.

 

[noodleman]

well here's some light reading for anyone interested

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1225324&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

 

[scunfcu]

I decided to try this, so last night started 1/4 teaspoon of plain sugar to my 75g. Let see what happen.

 

[tosiek]

make sure you understand the reasons why your adding so much sugar and such. That way you can correct something if it goes wrong.

 

[scunfcu]

I may drop it down to 1/8 and do this for a week and see what happens.

 

[lfsmarineguy]

Wes, I'm not oversimplifying the process at all. I was merely stating that the companies sell entire regimens of which many of the additives are not necessary for the basic zeolite filtration. It's a few bottles of liquid and a container of zeolite. You don't have to go nuts with the entire set. I was also just giving my personal experience with the method. If you are using enough of the zeolite media and properly you shouldn't need the GFO on top of that.

 

[Wes]

Wes, I'm not oversimplifying the process at all. I was merely stating that the companies sell entire regimens of which many of the additives are not necessary for the basic zeolite filtration. It's a few bottles of liquid and a container of zeolite. You don't have to go nuts with the entire set.

I meant you are making it sound easier than it really is to someone who is looking for advice and doesn't sound too advanced in the hobby (No offense to the author). One small thing like kH rising over 8kH and acros start dying off.

If you are using enough of the zeolite media and properly you shouldn't need the GFO on top of that.

I think if you read some of the forums dedicated to these systems you will find that GFO is often recommended to be used periodically as a means to bring the PO4 back down when the zeolite and bacteria isn't enough. I know this because when I was using this system, I had personal conversations with the founder of the company and after evaluating my system, amount of zeolite media, and dosing regimen, it was recommended to me to use GFO periodically to bring the PO4 back down to optimal levels.

After a year of using the system and still dealing with phosphates slowly rising, I changed my method. Ditched the zeolite, bacteria, and bacteria food and switched to my current method of GFO. I still use the amino acids.

I am not saying these systems cannot be helpful in other ways, but as a means to remove Phosphate, in my experience nothing is more efficient (work and costwise) than a simple phosban reactor and some GFO.

The problem with these carbon dosing bacterial systems is they are based on trial and error since the average aquarist has no means of measuring bacterial population. No 2 tanks are alike, there is no boilerplate dosage/usage amounts. The manufacturer gives you a baseline to start with and it's up to you to figure out the rest and tweak. Unfortunately the "error" part of the trial and error can have some very Grim consequences.

Too little and it's pointless, too much and everything dies. Definitely not as easy as you are making it out to be. The same goes for sugar dosing i imagine. I just think all of the potential pitfalls of zeolite systems should be mentioned when recommending.

 

[fernandokng]

:bump:

Anyone have pics of before/after vodka/sugar/vinegar dosing?

Tosiek - why does efficiency decline over time?