best way to bring phosphates down

[bigdog1428]

hey guys,,i been battling my phosphates for about 3-4 months,,,,im runnin phosban and been doin 10% water changes weekly,,and i still see no progress can i increase my water changes to 20% weekly or more? i cant get it under control. i bought bio pellets and am about to start them alsoi miminized my feeding and brought my light hours down also ,,,any other ideas?????

 

[JARRETT SHARK]

Bio pellets WILL WORK IN 2-3 WEEKS BUT I RAN GFO THE SAME TIME

 

[bigdog1428]

when u tested it cpl months back ,,it was .87 ,,,when i had it tested last monthh it was .56 now if i start pellets is it gunna go up before it goes down ?

 

[OzoneParkGuy]

You need to post a little more info as to what you have done so far to combat this issue.. besides what you have posted. You have not mentioned what your tds reads,. What your lght cycle is, are you rinsing frozen foods. How often do you feed. What are you feeding... look for lower pot ash and P04 foods. Flake foods IMEO are better.
Using RODI.... When was the last time you changed out your bulbs? Believe it or not, it does play a vital role. Trust me on that one. Signs of weak bulbs, zoa polyps are elongated, reaching for light, sps not coloring up or browning out then bleaching. Consistant red cyano-bacteria that does not go away. Try repositioning your koralia's, increase clean-up crews(sand sifters).

 

[qy7400]

old bulbs causing PO4 to increase? Never heard of that, any links?

Water changes you can go as much as you want, good bacteria is on the rocks and sand not in the water column. How often do you change the media/test?

 

[bigdog1428]

You need to post a little more info as to what you have done so far to combat this issue.. besides what you have posted. You have not mentioned what your tds reads,. What your lght cycle is, are you rinsing frozen foods. How often do you feed. What are you feeding... look for lower pot ash and P04 foods. Flake foods IMEO are better.
Using RODI.... When was the last time you changed out your bulbs? Believe it or not, it does play a vital role. Trust me on that one. Signs of weak bulbs, zoa polyps are elongated, reaching for light, sps not coloring up or browning out then bleaching. Consistant red cyano-bacteria that does not go away. Try repositioning your koralia's, increase clean-up crews(sand sifters).

Thanks for the reply,,my tds reading i am unsure of ,,that is on the list to buy my light cycle is 8 hrs t5's and 7 hrs mh's.i am rinsing frozen mysis i am feeding flakes and pellets but every other day. yes using rodi, brand new giesmann t5's and mh's are 4 months old. i am not having a issue with zoa's but i neva been able to keep sps's but that a whole another story. no red cyano just high phosphates. my lps's are doin ok except for my frogspawn with i think has a parasite in it bc im losing heads, anenomesn and fish are excellent and im always moving my powerheada around for that perfect spot.....what else????

 

[OzoneParkGuy]

.2 -.8 on tds meter... you have to change out the 1st and 2nd cartridge (sediment & carbon), .8 -.15 all 3 need to be changed including the color changing resin. 15 and up, change out all cartridges including the membrane.

TDS meter is a mandatory thing.
10% weekly water changes your doing already...10 gallons I presume.

I'm leaning more towards your RODI system for now. Without the TDS you will never know. Your taking out dirty and putting dirty right back in...

SPS is a little more complicated, but you'll get into it soon enough. So don't fret it.

We will leave the other story out for now untill things are correct 1st... then sps later! LOL!

 

[bigdog1428]

It shouldn't be the ro bc I just changed all the filters and the membrane ,,,


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[nanchil]

Where did you get your rocks from?

 

[prattreef]

Assuming your RO/.DI is working correctly and you are producing pure water, I would do a one time or maybe two time large--like 50-60% water change to bring your levels down. If the water is at the correct temp. and salinity this should cause you zero problems. Then continue with the Phosban and regular smaller water changes, but you do need to figure out where all this PO4 is coming from to begin with.

 

[jr973]

Let em know noel ol school with this lol great advice there bud can't go wrong with that

 

[Will C]

Hey Bigdog, hows the cheato you picked up last week? anyway, Check your bioload. From our conversation it seemed you had alot of fish. The 10% weekly w/c's normally will keep you water nice but w/ a heavy bioload you will need to do more either in w/c increase, gfo, biopellets etc. Address how often you change yr filter socks and how you clean them. Power head placement is important, a big bioload might necessitate periodic powerhead movement in order to prevent any 'build-up' in low/no circulation spots. Good Luck!

 

[bigdog1428]

Hey Bigdog, hows the cheato you picked up last week? anyway, Check your bioload. From our conversation it seemed you had alot of fish. The 10% weekly w/c's normally will keep you water nice but w/ a heavy bioload you will need to do more either in w/c increase, gfo, biopellets etc. Address how often you change yr filter socks and how you clean them. Power head placement is important, a big bioload might necessitate periodic powerhead movement in order to prevent any 'build-up' in low/no circulation spots. Good Luck!

The chaeto is doin gret ,,I'm not havin any buildup anywhere ,, I do have a big clean up crew and I change out my filter socks almost every other day. I'm starin my biopellets today ... Let's see what happens


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[OzoneParkGuy]

recent expierence, qy700. Bulbs grow old and the rating index's change(wavelength, spectrum) causing zoa's to reach for light. On the untrained eye it may seem normal. This shift, I BELIEVE causes more of the undesirable algae's to grow & cyano bacteria to begin flourishing. There is alot more for me to type about the organics and inorganics of this and how P04 SIMPLE tests can give false reading or are really not that accurate.... Salifert came up undetectable while the Hanna showed me 0.06, but keeping it short and sweet. Process of Elimination..
You can precipitate the P04 with limewater... (increase in PH) another option.

As Randy stated.. you can increase the W/C volume just make sure things match, and make sure the RO is working properly.

You will not know for certain without the TDS meter.

Try adding more Macroalgae....

 

[prattreef]

Ozone, no question that old bulbs that have shifted spectrum can initiate algal blooms, but that is not the same as directly increasing PO4 levels which I believe is the claim that qy700 is questioning as am I. I see no mechanism for this to be possible as PO4 does not appear from nowhere triggered by the spectrum of light.

 

[OzoneParkGuy]

indeed..... already present or by introduction. Will reply in a little while, have a few errands to run.

 

[nanchil]

Ozone, no question that old bulbs that have shifted spectrum can initiate algal blooms, but that is not the same as directly increasing PO4 levels which I believe is the claim that qy700 is questioning as am I. I see no mechanism for this to be possible as PO4 does not appear from nowhere triggered by the spectrum of light.

+1. The source for this is not bad bulbs/lights.

 

[OzoneParkGuy]

Never said it was his bulbs directly nanchill. What I said was"When was the last time you changed out your bulbs? Believe it or not, it does play a vital role. Trust me on that one(Vital role being the key). Signs of weak bulbs, zoa polyps are elongated, reaching for light, sps not coloring up or browning out then bleaching. Consistant red cyano-bacteria that does not go away. Try repositioning your koralia's, increase clean-up crews(sand sifters).
"Bulbs grow old and the rating index's change(wavelength, spectrum) causing zoa's to reach for light. On the untrained eye it may seem normal. This shift, I BELIEVE causes more of the undesirable algae's to grow & cyano bacteria to begin flourishing. """" Which some tend to agree partly... key word again, I Believe.
I am not an expert in Marine biology or Plant phys. However I had a recent experience with my D/T. I had forgotten to change out my bulbs...and becomming lax a daisy in this hobby, and things becomming automated... I began to notice red-cyano growth just on the top portions of my LR. MY w/c's were monthly 42 gallons @ 193 TWV... and my params match(temp,sG). Testing was done with all Salifert Kits. As stated the test were comming back 0.00. So I figured it was the excess Oyster Feast and Artic Pods that contributed. So I stopped feeding it and just kept feeding flakes.(5 fish only). I upped my game and started bi-weekly w/c's and included carbon and gfo along with agressive skimming. Same issue. Then I started testing with the Hanna and as stated earlier.. 0.06 my P04 had increased.
Qy700 & Randy... Is there any evidence that concludes that a decrease in light wavelengths can contribute to some elevated P04 levels that you know of.
I have heard of some plants leaching toxins back into the water from leaves... Mangroves, although not sure if it's true or not.
I also am aware there have been studies of reduction in light and how it affects the chloroplasts in certain species and if they can increase P04 levels. Can i find it now... of course not.

All about process of elimination.
Sometimes we do not know it has always been there, untill we open our eyes.

 

[prattreef]

Ozone, the original poster asked about elevated PO4 and did not mention algae issues at all, so when in response you list possible causes and remedies it seems as though you are responding to this question and thus it appears you are implying that a change in light spectrum from old lamps does increase PO4.

If this is not what you meant fine. As I stated earlier, there is a ton of anecdotal and likely empirical evidence that old bulbs do contribute to algal and cyano outbreaks, but I know of no evidence and can think of no realistic mechanism by which a change in spectrum can add PO4 to a system. It is far more likely and very plausible that a change in spectrum favors certain organisms ability to utilize the light in that spectrum and that is what gives them the edge and causes a bloom. Certainly an abundance of PO4 and /or NO3 will further exacerbate the situation.

As to why you saw an increase in PO4 after increased diligence in maintenance I can't say for sure, but I find Hanna meters to be not all that consistent from test to test, they have a +/- accuracy of .03 and perhaps it is your flake food that is the issue and not the arcti-pods and oyster feast? Is it possible that when you eliminated the Reef Nutrition products you compensated by adding more flake food because you didn't want your fish to suffer? All more plausible answers IMO than spectral changes in lamps causing the release of sequestered PO4.

 

[OzoneParkGuy]

Reasoning...... Just can not figure out why his PO4 is high when the poster states he has changed everything, including the Cartridges for his RO Unit, bulbs being somewhat new. No algae issues, unless there was some issues that were left out of the original post. Can't call it.
Someone did mention rock.....

As stated earlier Randy... there are ALWAYS contributing factors to why things occur,and Thank you for your quick responses.

In simple terms
Hope no 1 assumes that decreased light wavelenghts can create elevated P04
out of no where. Not what I ment. Thats why I stated introduced or already there along with other contributing factors such as algae, cyano, exhumed ro cartridges, over feeding, waste, etc etc.