Era of MAC certification begins.

[Mike King]

On Oct 6th after the USCRTF meeting CORL will be making an announcement during my talk on #reefs about a new Coastal Resource Program that will address many of the problems associated with both the Protection of the Worlds Coral Reefs and the Marine Ornamental Industry. The Goals and mission statement of CORL can be found at www.corl.org.
I have traveled the world to see first hand the problems the coral reefs face and to better understand the demands of the MOI. After four years of work I feel that I have come up with a program that will not only make the Marine Ornamental Industry sustainable but will be very beneficial in the protection of the worlds Coral reefs and to all those that depend upon their resources.
The Program as designed will work with, and strengthen the Goals of not only MAC, but those of the GCRMN, ICRI, NCRI, Reef Check, and many other Government and Non Governmental organizations along with many non profit organizations. Some here on Reefs.org and #reefs know about this new program and will be an active part in its implementation as they have been in its development. I wish I could reveal more at this time but it would be a bit premature (Im still working on the final Program draft and two pilot projects to be given to the Govt. for review on Oct 2nd ).

Yes this is why I closed my shop down, and stepped down from my position of Vice President of AMDA

If anyone wants to help with a CORL Project send your resume, We also have a few other Hobbyist orientated projects underway and all are welcome to participate check out the web site for more info
(its still under major construction).
I dont know If Ill make MACNA (closing my shop has put a big dent in my travel funding) ,If I do I will be in meetings most of the time or locked away in a room getting ready for the CRTF meeting but I would like to hear your input.
Grass Roots movements still exist, it has just become a lot harder to get them off the ground these days.

Steve, Judy, Eric, Mary and others, keep up the good work we need all the pressure for reform we can get and it will help promote the implementation of the Coastal Resources Program CORLs proposing.
THANKS

I wish I had time to tell you all more and to answer the many questions youll have. If you wish to e-mail them to me I will do my best to cover your questions durring my talk on #reefs. My email is [email protected]

Thanks for understanding in advance

Hmm my dead line is approaching very quickly and I best get back to work.

Take care,

Mike King

Any chance that #reefs can fix the ‘ problem with the post?

 

[Mike King]

Just found out that the web page for CORL may be down soon while thev server is relocated. Please respond to my email address [email protected] with any questions.

Thanks
Mike

 

[Kalkbreath]

To address the world's reefs vs. the industry...
. In countries where cyanide isn't a problem (Fiji, Tonga, Solomons, etc...) the focus should be on sustainability issues and collateral damage (crowbarring reefs).
I would rather have my animals packed loose and get here alive than packed tight and save a few pennies on frieght- just to end up losing the fish. y.

.............It is much more then a few pennys, try to get some blennys or coral cats from Hawaii or Tonga ! Dateline and Wyanes for example, dont even offer tiny cheap fish because they know when the bag of water costs twenty times the cost of the fish , it is never going to compare to The Philippines. And the idea that "net " fishermen are going to catch blennies and gobies , that sell for less then a dollar.......... is not going to happen....... Also where in Tonga or Fiji are there "crowbar" collectors? Maybe for the food {.cucumber} collectors but what hobby collection practices need the use of a crowbar?
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[flameangel1]

Kalk,,

It is much more then a few pennys, try to get some blennys or coral cats from Hawaii or Tonga ! Dateline and Wyanes for example, dont even offer tiny cheap fish because they know when the bag of water costs twenty times the cost of the fish , it is never going to compare to The Philippines. And the idea that "net " fishermen are going to catch blennies and gobies , that sell for less then a dollar.......... is not going to happen......

The above, is a lot of the problem with this industry at the retailers and hobbyist level.
We ALL have to STOP thinking of "cheap fish " !!!!
When all of us start PAYING what these fish are really worth, this industry/hobby might have a chance of staying alive.
The retailers/hobbyist who pays more for his/her fish, might have a lot more respect for them and will provide them with a better home.
This in turn, will mean that less fish are collected (better for the reefs), the natives will make more for them and in turn take better care of them during collection. and so on and so forth.

Why on earth would you want to save a buck by cutting down on their water during shipping ??? Cripes, Fish LIVE IN WATER !!!! (dead fish are not cheap either)

Many years ago, the wholesalers shipped flameangels in small amounts of water. Losses were tremendous. I insisted that mine be packed in EXTRA water,(and larger bags) and have rarely ever lost one since.
Is the extra freight worth it?? ABSOLUTELY !!

Steve (cortez), you can explain this much better than I can.
The words "cheap fish" just raise my blood pressure.

 

[flameangel1]

Kalk,
added note,
Can you go out to your local stream and collect that blenny or goby ??
A fishing license costs more than a buck here in the states!!

Why should we expect to pay ONLY a buck for that blenny or goby that was collected in some far off country at 60 feet down in the OCEAN ?????
Some diver risked his life to collect it, for petes sake.

( by the way, I have never seen either of them on any list from my wholesalers for a buck , to begin with, but am just using them as an example here, per your comment.)

 

[Kalkbreath]

I purchased fish from Steve last week ,so I do Know the value of net cought fish....but I also know that there is a reason that 99% of all tiny fish like gobbies and blennys and coral cats etc. come from PI ..........................and it seems that even knowing many of these fish are poisoned is not enough to keep 99 % of the industry from buying these fish? The dollar is much more powerfull then any enviromental concerns......... Interesting that those importers which sell only net cought ...dont sell tinyIndo reef fishes? Now you Know why.........
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[dizzy]

I purchased fish from Steve last week ,so I do Know the value of net cought fish....but I also know that there is a reason that 99% of all tiny fish like gobbies and blennys and coral cats etc. come from PI ..........................and it seems that even knowing many of these fish are poisoned is not enough to keep 99 % of the industry from buying these fish? The dollar is much more powerfull then any enviromental concerns......... Interesting that those importers which sell only net cought ...dont sell tinyIndo reef fishes? Now you Know why.........

Kalk, Steve,

Seems to me like someone could design a simple, cheap trap for blennies and gobies. Perhaps something as simple as a beer can or a coke bottle.

Catch the fish with nets like Steve says. Then calm them with the properly administered dose of sedative, because they do fight and panic in the buckets. It may soon be possible to put them to sleep for long international flights, so less water will be needed. (per Elwyn Segrest on AMDA forum)

 

[Anonymous]

The dollar is much more powerful then any enviromental concerns.

This is the main reason why I think that, while the thought behind all this is pure and valid, the effort is doomed to fail, at least where America is concerned. Greed is the American way, and to continue profiting without 'rocking the boat' as far as collection methods, training, etc, is the way that most importers will continue to do business. Yes, there will be exceptions to every rule, but I doubt those exceptions will make a difference.

It's an uphill battle, and the ones at the forefront of the lines are valiant, but when they're up against money profits and greed, they are doomed to fail.

It's American historical momentum, and you can't stop that momentum.

Thoughts?

Peace,

Chip

 

[clarionreef]

Mike,
An NGO relevant to reform and sustainability issues with actual experience in the fish trade itself? Whatdaya crazy? I thought that knowledge of the trade was a handicap or illegal when adressing its fundamental concerns.
There has never been a group in 20 years that ran any of their schemes, scams or campaigns vis a vis village training and industry reform that has been led by anyone with an actual resume of experience!
Trainers burn out under incompetent leadership and things fizzle out...[ even though budgets still got reauthorized.]
This is a the most welcome news I've heard in years! Can't wait for the announcement on Oct.6th! Sincerely,
Steve

 

[clarionreef]

Everyone,
Cheap people make cheap fish. The prices paid and accepted by collectors in the Philippines are very low by our standards. The markups are still pretty good when exported at still the lowest prices in the industry. It never was drugs that made fish cheap, it was the abundance of low wage people who made it all happen. Futhermore a primarily Chinese business culture insured that prices would stay low and competitive with each other. The trade flourished and grew under the protection of one of the worlds most infamous dictators and its rules of engagement were forged in that time.
I served during his administration er, mis-administration under The Environmental Center of the Philippines and had a ring side seat to see how it was always the use of poor people that made it all seem so cheap to us. More people chasing fewer fish with destructive means...all with the governments blessing and with no pretense of social justice or sustainability.
Of course their reefs are among the worst damaged in the world and many thousands of fisherman are very poor. Our industrys cyanide fisherman contributed to the damage and often made more money than their fellow fisherman [who they helped to impoverish] so perhaps it wasn't so cheap after all.
Steve

 

[SPC]

Just wanted to jump in here to say that I just purchased 4 Papillose Blennies from a collector in the Keys and paid $15 each for these. After doing some research on these fish for the last 8 months I learned that they were hard to collect. They live in rock and therefore the rock had to be taken to the boat and the fish shaken out, then the rock returned to its original position. The point I am trying to make is that after hearing how difficult the collection process for this fish was, I was willing to pay the collector for his time and effort.
Steve

 

[dizzy]

Just wanted to jump in here to say that I just purchased 4 Papillose Blennies from a collector in the Keys and paid $15 each for these. After doing some research on these fish for the last 8 months I learned that they were hard to collect. They live in rock and therefore the rock had to be taken to the boat and the fish shaken out, then the rock returned to its original position. The point I am trying to make is that after hearing how difficult the collection process for this fish was, I was willing to pay the collector for his time and effort.
Steve

Steve,

I hope you know the collector personally because they use a lot of quinaldine to collect difficult fish in the keys. I think it is about the only way they catch jawfish. Shaking blennies out of rocks is not so easy to do sometimes. Believe me some blennies and psuedos will stay in the rock till they die if you take them out of water.

 

[Kalkbreath]

As much as it may seem like its impossible to have reform, its not . What makes this time different......after twenty years...........IS that this board will be the new weapon of truth and exposer. First we need to continue to get a true feel for whats really taking place on the reefs. Then we need to think outside the box...........like the idea that while the cyanide issue is not a great concern to most outside of the hobby.......it is to the seafood eating public and industry. In a round about way is seems that the best bet is to end sea food cyanide collection first , then the hobby fish collection will be much easier! Also , new ideas tward fish transport like my new friend Dizzy suggested will help to change that aspect as well.............
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[SPC]

Posted by Dizzy:

I hope you know the collector personally because they use a lot of quinaldine to collect difficult fish in the keys.

-And we actually think we can stop this practice in a far away land and can't even control it here???
Actually I do know the guy and knew it was possible to get them out of the rock. A friend of mine works for NOAA in the Keys (30 something years I think) and has them in his reef tank, this is how he acquired his.
Steve

 

[clarionreef]

30 years collecting in the keys without using dope?
Sounds like Billy Causey...the best fish collector in the Keys since Robert Straughn.
If hes the one...its true. Steve

 

[Anonymous]

I see that the MAC meeting is running directly opposite of Eric Borneman's talk at MACNA. I'd really like to attend both...

 

[dizzy]

I see that the MAC meeting is running directly opposite of Eric Borneman's talk at MACNA. I'd really like to attend both...

Does anyone know if the MAC meeting is just for industry operators who have signed the MAC commitment, or is it an open meeting? The AMDA meeting is also at the same time as Martin Moe's talk. Walt Smith is also an interesting choice for the banquet speaker.

 

[Anonymous]

Kalk,
added note,
Can you go out to your local stream and collect that blenny or goby ??
A fishing license costs more than a buck here in the states!!

Why should we expect to pay ONLY a buck for that blenny or goby that was collected in some far off country at 60 feet down in the OCEAN ?????
Some diver risked his life to collect it, for petes sake.

( by the way, I have never seen either of them on any list from my wholesalers for a buck , to begin with, but am just using them as an example here, per your comment.)

for the same reason people expect a safe airplane fare to be cheap-they've been educated to expect it :wink:

 

[Kalkbreath]

Hey, there is nothing cheap about this hobbys prices for fish at the retail level.....even with cheap cyanide fish........I can fly to Miami from Atlanta for LESS then the retail price of a most any one of the fish in my store!
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[Anonymous]

Hey, there is nothing cheap about this hobbys prices for fish at the retail level.....even with cheap cyanide fish........I can fly to Miami from Atlanta for LESS then the retail price of a most any one of the fish in my store!

please back up this statement-how much is the airfare from miami to atlanta, and what are the cheaper priced fish in your store? :roll: