MAC certifies first retailers

[sdcfish]

Nano,

You are right......I did not mean to say that NOBODY will pay more for healthy fish....and in fact, I think our large customer base kinda proves that quality comes first, pricing and service come next.

After all, this is a live product and can hurt your pocket pretty fast if not taken seriously.

We just try to offer the best quality for the best price. BUT, we do raise prices when necessary to keep our suppliers in business. If we were like others, who just try for the low price then we would not be able to support those who are helping us be successful. It's so true in Hawaii and other locations where our suppliers need to raise prices in order to stay in business.....and those increases are directly related to diver price increases, but not limited to other increased costs....fuel (don't even get me started on this).

Regards

Eric

 

[Rascal]

Steve and Eric - Thank you both for your insight. Enlightening.

 

[dizzy]

There is also an aspect to all of this that has been largely overlooked. It has most certainly been overlooked by those who wrote the business plan used to lure green investment. This aspect is called perceived value. For our industry it means that many fish have an upper limit on what they are likely to bring in the average store. For many species we may already be approaching that perceived value. In short if they go up much, they may not sell. When you factor in the rising costs of gasoline and the ripple effects it has on all items purchased, competition for the shrinking disposable income will be fierce. As gas prices trend upwards, it is possible that demand for marine fish will decrease, even if the retail selling price went down.
Mitch

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Peter,

I know fish dealers in Canada dealing with fish suppliers in the Philippines, they have stated that the quality is much better than before. DOA and mortality after is also lower. These people get fish very often....twice a month. Is very possible that one of the reasons for this to happen is that less cyanide is being used to collect MO. We could not say it 15 years ago.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

GreshamH and all,


The pressure to get more fish from the reefs is influenced and dictated by the prevaling cheap price. Lets get an example:

How much is getting (today) a collector for a Coral Beauty?
Back in 2000 - 2001 he was getting 12 pesos (U.S$ 0.30)

How much is the exporter asking (today) for that Coral Beauty?
Back in 2000 - 2001 he/she was asking U.S.$ 3.00

How much is the importer asking (today) for a Coral Beauty?
Back in 2000 - 2001 it was (average) U.S. $10.00

How much is the retailer asking (today) for a Coral Beauty?
Back in 2000 - 2001 (around here) U.S 35
Today more than U.S$ 40

I understand there is shipping cost, overhead, mortality.....etc, but I think collectors are not getting a fair part of the trade. Collectors pay the price of prolonged absences from their families owing to long voyages, risks associated with bends, and health hazards due to unfiltered air they inhale.

Exporters are just one of the links of the trade. Air carriers, importers and retailers are making good money at the expense of poor collectors.
They get just that ....morsels.

 

[clarionreef]

Using those figures;

It appears the exporter then is marking it up 10X....minus local expenses.....still a huge and exponential mark-up.

The importer however, must pay an equal amount
of frieght which would bring the coral beauties landed cost up to 6 dollars....not even a double! For livestock, this is a dangerously low mark-up and a recipe for insolvency before long.

The retailer, 4-uadruples it again you say...minus domestic frieght and expense.

So where is the exploitation taking place the most?
Steve

 

[dizzy]

I don't think many retailers in this region are getting $40.00 for Coral Beauties. F&S has them for $23.99 with a 14-day guarantee. I think $26-30 is probably closer to the norm.

 

[clarionreef]

Yes Mitch,
And some etailers let em go for $13.99.
Most retailers in California charge about $24-$29 for em. Orange Tonga ones a bit more.
But more than 40 US, sounds more exploitive....instead of just the fair mark-up.
The only place to cut the fat is in Manila as they screen ruthlessly on the premises and don't pay the heavy frieght.
The screening protects them and minimizes their risk...and even still their mark-up is many times the investment.
In relationship to weekly sales, their payroll is also very small in % comparison to ours.
Steve

 

[PeterIMA]

Mitch,

You seem to forget that Jaime is in Canada, and the prices he is providing are in Canadian dollars. Try adjusting for the exchange rates that have been fluctuating between the US and Canada, and also with the Philippines.

Peter Rubec

 

[clarionreef]

No Peter,
He was using real money;
Look!
How much is the importer asking (today) for a Coral Beauty?
Back in 2000 - 2001 it was (average) U.S. $10.00 How much is the retailer asking (today) for a Coral Beauty?
Back in 2000 - 2001 (around here) U.S 35
Today more than U.S$ 40

 

[PeterIMA]

Steve, Sorry, I stand corrected. So, does the pricing look fair?

Peter

 

[clarionreef]

In truth,
A coral beauty is indeed collected for 30 cents US.
I just called Bolinao, Pangasinan and Mie Mie told me todays price.

It is shipped for an average of $1.30 which may well have discount of 10% TO 20%.

Frieght...a little thing conveniently left out of all these arguments stands at about $3.97 -$4.25 kg plus surcharges of fuel, "security" and handling.

Wholesalers sell em for $7-9 on the average and retailers 24-30.

All the while....the myriad of other costs are involved like rent, overhead, taxes, payroll, electricity, gas, debt service, depreciation, brokers and US Fish/wildlife...you know...the little stuff that somehow gets paid.

Only people on funny money and who have never run a business confuse gross with net...and yet, in real business its a daily preoccupation.

Still...the highest mark-ups taking into account the proportion of overhead and associated costs to fish costs are in the Philippines and Indonesia.

Where but in the Philippines can the middle class afford a maid and a driver? Anybody have domestic servants around here?
Steve

 

[dizzy]

Retailers have to sell to new customers if they want to move fish. People's tanks get full and they can't keep buying. Good wholesalers sell to the same retailers over and over and over again. If they can make 50% gross margins and sell let's say an average of $1,000 a week to several hundred retailers it sounds pretty good to me. I think wholesale is where the real money is.
Mitch

 

[Jaime Baquero]

I have price lists from wholesaler in the U.S and the price for Coral Beauties

Sm U.S.$ 8.75
md U.S $ 9.75
Lg U.S $ 11.00

Other supplier

Sm U.S 11.15
md U.S 12.40
Lg U.S 13.95


Specials less. ~ U.S$ 8.00[/u]

 

[dizzy]

Jaime are the prices for Philippine or Fiji Coral Beauties? I think the wholesalers may have to pay more for the ones from Fiji. Perhaps not.
Mitch

 

[sdcfish]

Mitch,

Fiji Coral Beauty is a bit more, but the cheaper freight from Fiji and packing differences make them about the same landed price for wholesalers....we sell them for the same price.

Steve,

How many Coral Beauty's can be caught by a Philipino diver in one day? In Fiji, we were catching about 40-50 Coral Beauties per day, per diver. Bicolor angels are much dumber than a Coral Beauty making them easy to catch. I think I caught 60 Bicolor in one day...and a professional diver for sure 100 could be achieved.

Knowing that a diver can collect $.30 each fish, for 40 per day, for sure some other fish too....that's $12.00 US per day minimum which converts to 600 pesos right? In the city of Manila, minimum wage is about 400-500 pesos per day....so maybe the divers if they are good, they can make well above minimum wage. I would think they could make more than just 40 Coral Beauties per day...but it really depends on the reef and if they are working the same areas or not.

Regards,

Eric

 

[clarionreef]

Eric,
It all depends on the area. In healthy reef areas, 100 a day.
The more degraded...the more the total decreases.
Tongans need to be held back and maximums enforced. Otherwise, they could do 100-200 a day.
Steve
PS.
I have several lists from the West Coast. C Beauties don't pass a sawbuck on any of em.

 

[Anonymous]

Mitch,

Fiji Coral Beauty is a bit more, but the cheaper freight from Fiji and packing differences make them about the same landed price for wholesalers....we sell them for the same price.

Steve,

How many Coral Beauty's can be caught by a Philipino diver in one day? In Fiji, we were catching about 40-50 Coral Beauties per day, per diver. Bicolor angels are much dumber than a Coral Beauty making them easy to catch. I think I caught 60 Bicolor in one day...and a professional diver for sure 100 could be achieved.

Knowing that a diver can collect $.30 each fish, for 40 per day, for sure some other fish too....that's $12.00 US per day minimum which converts to 600 pesos right? In the city of Manila, minimum wage is about 400-500 pesos per day....so maybe the divers if they are good, they can make well above minimum wage. I would think they could make more than just 40 Coral Beauties per day...but it really depends on the reef and if they are working the same areas or not.

Regards,

Eric

Compairing a diver dependant on decent weather to work, and a city minimum wage worker doesn't quite pan out. The diver doesn't have the ability to work even close to the same amount of days as the city worker.

 

[mark@mac]

Collecting fish for a living is damn hard work; free diving and hookah both! Gresham is right on. From the reefs I've seen here, many collectors would be hard pressed to net catch 40 or 50 coral beauties in a day due to populations. Other species are collected as well which don't bring the price of that higher end of the low priced species. In other words medium and high priced species are few and far between in many places; especially for the mano-mano, or "free divers". Medium and high end species are generally in deep water.

 

[PeterIMA]

Eric, I believe you heard the presentation by Tom Cabagay at the MO06 Conference. He presented a comparison of three areas where the exporters were providing the collectors with better pricing. However, even with subsidies to transport fish long distances and some increase in the price per fish, the collectors in degraded areas could not make a wage that was above the poverty threshold. This gets back to the sustainability issue. Degraded areas have a mix of low-priced species and can not provide a living wage to the collectors in those areas. So why does the MAC persist in carrying out its training programs in depleted/degraded areas like Bohol?

Why a new training program in Bohol?