Suggestion

[mkirda]

To whom it may concern:

There is an easy solution to the lack of netting: We send some.

The problem is: We don't know what to send.

Please share with us the material needed for:

1) Barrier netting (I am told that monofilament is best, but am unsure of the mesh size needed.)

2) Hand netting material - Steve has told me that he uses and recommends 1/6th and 1/4th inch clear oriented square net.

3) Butterfly net - what Steve calls "that thing they use in Batangas".

4) "Push net" - no idea.

After being there in the Philippines, I plan to send some netting shortly on my own as a Thank You gift to the collectors who took the time to show me how it was done. I'm not sure of the amounts or the types yet, but am looking into it.

From what I understand in talking to Steve, the AMDA is bringing over a bunch of netting material shortly. Mike King of CORL is also apparently bringing over netting shortly. As hobbyists, we can make a difference and help fund the netting- and frankly, it is inexpensive in US dollars. I would hope that a direct donation to the 'netting fund' would be used 100% for netting by both the AMDA and CORL. Otherwise, you can contact myself and piggyback onto what I will send- It will be 100%, and I will cover the shipping myself.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
P.S. If people share the types of nets, I will share sources and prices further on down this thread.

 

[clarionreef]

Hello Mike,
Excellent. We just finished the first AMDA board meeting of the new year and the net fund initiative is a priority initiative.
I urge all concerned parties to join AMDA [ or if you're a hobbyist MASNA] and contribute to the net funding initiative. We need to provide enough nets to the divers who want it and need it to collect fish without killing anything anymore.
Real, commercial training must go forth to be sure, but there is a critical need for the clear mesh handnetting material that has been missing for a year in the Philippines.
We need to buy it this week and ship it over ASAP.

FINALLY...NETTING TO GO WITH ALL THE NET TRAINING PROGRAMS WE'VE HEARD SO MUCH ABOUT.
Sincerely, Steve Robinson
AMDA president

 

[clarionreef]

...not missing for a year. Missing for 10 years in the Philippines. [the netting that is]
Steve

 

[mkirda]

Hello Mike,
Excellent. We just finished the first AMDA board meeting of the new year and the net fund initiative is a priority initiative.

Steve,

I would have hoped you would answer my question(s). You argue for transparency. So put it out for the world what exactly is needed.

There are various reasons why some hobbyists might not want to contribute to AMDA, yet still want to contribute 'to the cause'. It is not exactly cross-purposes...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Anonymous]

Hey, I'm all for this. Finally, a way I can help that's not limited to what little control I have over my own store's marine department.

How much money is a sizable donation? How much does one net cost?

Peace,

Chip

 

[mkirda]

Hey, I'm all for this. Finally, a way I can help that's not limited to what little control I have over my own store's marine department.

How much money is a sizable donation? How much does one net cost?

Peace,

Chip

Chip,

The netting material I do know about is about 6 cents per square foot. Figure 2 foot of the roll can make 3-4 hand nets according to e-mails I got from Steve. That is 14 square feet, and costs 84 cents.

Steve made another statement in another e-mail: "It is the clear mesh plastic handnet material that the divers need the most from us."

I know he plans to load up on this and bring it to the Philippines with him. So the easiest way to donate is to send him something for this.

Personally, I will be sending some directly to two areas, which will supply 6-8 villages. I plan on going in for $100US, and after mentioning to the president of my local club, he is thinking that the club might go in for $100 or $200 as well. That is enough for 100 or 120 yards of the stuff.
And that should last the local collectors a little while.

I'm still waiting to hear about what type of monofilament netting is needed- I might add a few dozen yards of that too.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Yes Mike,
Transparency in netting is the point exactly. If its not transparent, the fish will see it and flee!
Barrier netting has been available in Manila but at the dealers mark up. They have already brought it in from Taiwan OR...there is a chance it is now made in Manila as I have heard and would like substantiation on.
The magic stuff is 3/8's for smaller wrasses and such and 1/2 inch for basic collecting and especially angels.
The "non available" clear knotless mesh alluded to in the Haribon report exists in tremendous abundance and one single importation of it can supply thousands of divers. Although it is not a locally made product...neither is cyanide. It is cheap enough and available enough to anyone sincere enough to blanket the Philippines with!
However, a distribution network could be established at the netcaught exporters wharehouses I suggest. That way, a sustainable supply line could be engineered and those exporters could get long needed credit and respect for standing up to the cyanide trade.
Hope this answers any questions.
Sincerely, Steve

 

[mkirda]

Hope this answers any questions.
Sincerely, Steve

Morning, Steve.

Partially, yes. Thank you very much.

The nets mentioned in 3) and 4) above have not been covered yet.

Any comments on the mesh/type needed for these two nets?

Am I missing any other types of nets and/or netting material?

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Mike,
Thats easy. Both 3 & 4 [ butterfly and push nets] are the same thing and locally made.
So much for state secrets.
Steve

 

[mkirda]

So much for state secrets.
Steve

{laughing} And the reason for state secrets with regards to netting would be?

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[MaryHM]

As far as just giving it to them, is this really the best way? I've found in Fiji that people take care of things very poorly, but a little better if they actually have to earn it. I can see it now- miles of free netting sitting out in the sun rotting...

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Mike,

You can get in contact with Tad Akamatsu from Tecnets Co. in Osaka,Japan.
We got from him nylon monofilament netting with 0.17mm dia. 3/8 mesh 400MD X 150 meters/bundle, natural color, single knot, lengthway finish approx. 10 lbs/PC.of weight . Price C&F Manila by air freight WAS US$760/pc

They need 10pcs of minimun order and delivery time will be 3-4 months. It takes time to get it because this type of netting is the smallest mesh and twine size which is not easy to manufacturer by machine. That's what he said.

His phone number is (06) 262 5885 fax (06) 271 7587

I would suggest to deal directly with the leader of the communities or the local association of fishers, who could administrate and ensure the distribution of the nets. The nets shouldn't be given without cost. Collectors need to pay small amount of money , which can be used for buying nylon for repairs.

As a group, a message should be sent to exporters to motivate them with this action to provide the economic incentive to collectors using nets.

Mike, I find this is a good idea, but should be implemented carefully.

jaime

 

[Jaime Baquero]

I hope that after all the discussions in this forum all interested have understood that the solution to the cyanide problem in the Philippines is not only technical (meaning providing nets and net training). It is more complex than that. The social component is critical as well economics.

As part of Haribon/OVI program women participation was very important. Under our program women learnt how to make nets. Fishers also know how to make and repair the. It takes time to make nets, but also takes time for the supplier in Japan to produce them. Production in Japan depends on the availability of nylon raw material (monofilament yarn) of the small size. The quality of the material coming from Japan is excellent, those guys are number one in the fisheries field.

jaime

 

[Forest Reef]

I'm interested too. I finally came out of "lurking" (registered) so I could post somewhere in here on "Why not just let's BUY some net!!". I don't have a local club, so I'll start looking up info on MASNA. Or, Mike Kirda - keep us informed on details. If y'all are ready to send a shipment soon (before I get around to finding/joining/figuring out how to donate to "net fund" via MASNA :roll: ).....maybe I'll join you/your club's effort. (from a Hobbyist...the "Demand" side of the equation)

For the "Supply Side"...please note I have been looking for a guaranteed net-caught (retail) fish supplier a long time. LFS is best, but I can't find that so I started (reluctantly) looking mail order. I found one on reefcentral, ended up over here "verifying" and maybe found another (more?). ANYHOW - for all the talk that large angels, tangs, etc. aren't available...every fish species I want (in my plan) is on the list they offer except one. Yes - I want smaller fish. Don't discount that market....if we can find you!!!

 

[clarionreef]

Hello,
So you found "verified" mailorder netcaught fish on the internet. So thats where they're all going! Especially the big angels and blue tangs.
Someone needs to tell MAC quickly that the problem was already solved! Thank goodness! We can all relax because a sales page verified that the problem was solved when no one was looking.
That would be so cool if it were true.
Sincerely, Steve
PS. Netting supply ie the missing netting supply to allow more complete trainings is enroute to the Philippines as authorized by the AMDA board of directors.

 

[MaryHM]

Steve,

I've gone retail online to hobbyists. it seems the hobbyists are much more interested in net caught fish than the vast majority of retail stores. So yeah, there is ONE verified net caught mail order company. That may be what forestreef is talking about.

 

[clarionreef]

Mary,
Netcaught perhaps...but all the major angels in stock? Already?
Steve

 

[naesco]

Mary is right.

What you need to know ist that the new reefers is very concerned about the critters they keeps. They are better informed.
Industry will react to the demand for net caught when reefers demand net caught fish and slop dead cyanide fish on their tills demanding their money back.
The only thing holding back this movement is the fact that their needs to be testing and there has to be the ability of the industry to produce net caught fish.
IMO your role as president is to prepare them against the soon to be empowered reefers.
People in your industry better be prepared to know where the fish that they sell come from and be prepared to back it up with evidence.
And if the fish are from the Phillipines they will demand evidence that it is net caught always.
Although some industry types might feel the need to fudge the truth eventually they will caught and those LFS and otherw will seek out net caught fish. When they experience the economic benefits of lower DOA and happier customers they will stick with it.
That is why IMO MAC is important because a good MAC gives all of us the opportunity to start now.

 

[jamesw]

Mary,

You may be on to something here. Naesco, I think you're right!

Most of the "new breed" of reef aquarists are waaaay more proactive than retail stores. So if YOU want to be pro-active, why not sell to them!?

Cheers
James

 

[mkirda]

I'm interested too. I finally came out of "lurking" (registered) so I could post somewhere in here on "Why not just let's BUY some net!!". I don't have a local club, so I'll start looking up info on MASNA. Or, Mike Kirda - keep us informed on details. If y'all are ready to send a shipment soon (before I get around to finding/joining/figuring out how to donate to "net fund" via MASNA :roll: ).....maybe I'll join you/your club's effort. (from a Hobbyist...the "Demand" side of the equation)

Anita,

As I had said earlier, I was planning to send ~$100 worth of netting overseas. One of my club members is going over soon (next week) and I planned to give him the netting to hand over to my contact for distribution.

So, I went ahead and ordered the netting today, and discovered that $50 of 1/6th" netting = 110 linear feet of a 7' roll, and $50 of 1/4th" netting = 220+ linear feet of a 7' roll.

That's a LOT of net!

I have my doubts that my club member is going to be able to bring 300+ linear feet with him... I'll see about sending him with 20-50 feet of each, depending on how small of a package I can compact them into. The rest I am not sure how I will send yet. Maybe by Int'l mail, by boat... LOL.

Seeing how much netting this is, and how much Steve and Mike King are also bringing, I think we can assume for a bit that the Filipino collectors will have enough netting for the short term...

At any rate, I think the next issue is to support Marivi's importers on this end. So buy net caught- and ask Marivi directly for importers who buy her fish nearby you. We need to be sure that there is a market for net-caught fish. Otherwise, this whole effort is for naught.

Regards.
Mike Kirda