Suggestion

[Anonymous]

It is part of their activity.

Of course its a part of their activity, but it shouldn't have to consume most their time. Recently that very netting was passed onto some PI divers working in Belize. They were very vocally upset about that netting being passed on as a commercial net for them to use. They said they'd catch one fish and have to go topside to repair the net due to the damage from the fish. To me and them, that is not exceptable. That kind of down time WILL lead to backsliding as cyanide fishing is more profitable for them at that point, geesh anything is more profitable then not working or barely.

I can tell you that is not probably the best, but it does a good job without injuring the fish

Its that very attitude that has been the down fall of many training attempts. The divers can tell when its being faked to them. The diferrence in the netting is a big deal when it comes to commercial collecting, a very big deal.

 

[Anonymous]

this was actually a pretty neat thread to resurrect due to the way it began:

mike kirda wrote:

To whom it may concern:

There is an easy solution to the lack of netting: We send some.

The problem is: We don't know what to send.

Please share with us the material needed for:

1) Barrier netting (I am told that monofilament is best, but am unsure of the mesh size needed.)

2) Hand netting material - Steve has told me that he uses and recommends 1/6th and 1/4th inch clear oriented square net.

3) Butterfly net - what Steve calls "that thing they use in Batangas".

4) "Push net" - no idea.

After being there in the Philippines, I plan to send some netting shortly on my own as a Thank You gift to the collectors who took the time to show me how it was done. I'm not sure of the amounts or the types yet, but am looking into it.

From what I understand in talking to Steve, the AMDA is bringing over a bunch of netting material shortly. Mike King of CORL is also apparently bringing over netting shortly. As hobbyists, we can make a difference and help fund the netting- and frankly, it is inexpensive in US dollars. I would hope that a direct donation to the 'netting fund' would be used 100% for netting by both the AMDA and CORL. Otherwise, you can contact myself and piggyback onto what I will send- It will be 100%, and I will cover the shipping myself.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
P.S. If people share the types of nets, I will share sources and prices further on down this thread.

what a wonderful announcement

in what may be a somewhat naive p.o.v., i'd like to address an issue w/jamie, and steve, or the exchanges between them, or about them, regarding the whole .17 mm net issue

jamie- i see your initial announcement about where to get that netting as a gesture born out of desire to help a situation- and for that i give you credit

steve- i see your criticsm of the .17mm figure a valid complaint about detail there that is the devil, :wink: and that the importance of the detail is damming in the lack of it's being noticed

i think that's all there really is to that argument-if the net jaime posted was the wrong size, well, ok- i doubt it was attempt to obfuscate finding the netting of the right size-the attempt to make a net source known is still a damn nice thing to do

while your other disagreements between each other may or may not have merit, i think they're tainting this particular 'misunderstanding' for both sides

i'm done kibbitzing

for the record, - it's obvious netting IS the priority along w/the education to use it- i'm talking about it, and the amda net fund tomorrow evenin, to a local club, and hope to be able to import to some there the urgency and importance of the issue


kudos again, to some of the key players here: steve, mary, mike, mike :wink: , and to jaime, and peter, dr.mcallister (sp),and any mac employee whos actions helped(even if you disagree with the whole package,or the ideaology, contributions have been made by both sides, somehow, and it's whats done w/those foundations now, that's key :wink: )

this is (yeah i know it's obvious to y'all) really important s**t, folks- i just hope that anyone who stays in for the game has the sense to look more ahead, than behind.(w/out forgetting the lessons)

there are too many people out there that think like kalk, and naesco (i mean truly think that way) to do otherwise

i don't presume to judge characters here,nor do i presume that my experience/involvement give me 'beeyotchin' rights to anyone here in this fine, highly non ridiculous, unlike area 51 forum :wink:

i'm just stating how i feel about what i see here

i do know what i've read and exchanged here and elsewhere on the net, though, and at the risk of sounding like a rodney king wannabe, w/all of my naivete', that all the cross bickering should stop

fer chrissakes- a cyanide apologist and an out of touch 'cause hugger' are actually demostrating a better debate behavior to outside readers than the group i identify with

'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'


someone makes allegations, real or imagined? big deal :?
someone's sense of honor is offended? big deal :?

the issue at hand dwarfs everyone's ego's here, including my own

we're a handful of people, and the nets alone will affect thousands of people, and part of a planet

i take pride just in being able to say i helped, even if it's just a little- a far more positive message to focus on, imho

kudo's again mike kirda for starting this thread

 

[Jaime Baquero]

vitz,

Could you please tell me what that means the 0.17mm? I just want to make sure we are talking about the same thing. This is a question for vitz no one else.

 

[Anonymous]

We got from him nylon monofilament netting with 0.17mm dia. 3/8 mesh 400MD X 150 meters/bundle, natural color, single knot, lengthway finish approx. 10 lbs/PC.of weight . jaime

8O :?

Sorry Jaime, I've read your question to Vitz 5 times now, trying to figure out if you were for real? Even I understood what he was talking about.

 

[Anonymous]

Jaime Baquero wrote:

Could you please tell me what that means the 0.17mm? I just want to make sure we are talking about the same thing. This is a question for vitz no one else.

first of all, if you want to address a question only to me- do it in pm-any question you post publicly is fair game for everyone and anyone to answer :wink:

i find it interesting the way you phrased the direction of your question, and i'm debating if it's just an attempt to impose an aggressive stance :?

re: the .17 mm issue:

We got from him nylon monofilament netting with 0.17mm dia. 3/8 mesh 400MD X 150 meters/bundle, natural color, single knot, lengthway finish approx. 10 lbs/PC.of weight . jaime

8O :?

Sorry Jaime, I've read your question to Vitz 5 times now, trying to figure out if you were for real? Even I understood what he was talking about.

you'll have to accept knowse's answer in spite of addressing the question specifically to me :wink:

like i said before jaime, and i'll re-iterate just so you get it:

i think that as a gesture, the suggestion you made about the netting was/is a positive one

but the detail of the diameter seems to be a crucial one-and one you seem to be either mistaken about, or just uninformed about

it's your reaction to the correction, and the explanation behind the correction, that i personally have a problem with

if steve or gresham hadn't corrected the diameter needed, would you be in as big of a huff as you seem to be for the VALUABLE info in the correction?

you can quote someone else, too, if they provide an answer that you find acceptable-it's a publicly asked question :wink:

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Vitz,

My question regarding the 0.17 mm is not oriented to insult you or any one else. The way that number is presented to the readers by GreshanmH 0.17mm mesquito netting could lead readers to get the wrong idea. Is very different if the information is presented as 0.17 diameter 3/8" mesh. You can not use that to protect yourself from mesquitos. What is the right diameter?

Vitz, this is nothing personal. I just want readers getting the right information.

 

[Anonymous]

Vitz,

My question regarding the 0.17 mm is not oriented to insult you or any one else. The way that number is presented to the readers by GreshanmH 0.17mm mesquito netting could lead readers to get the wrong idea. Is very different if the information is presented as 0.17 diameter 3/8" mesh. You can not use that to protect yourself from mesquitos. What is the right diameter?

Vitz, this is nothing personal. I just want readers getting the right information.

ok, i think we get that you have a problem w/it being called mosquito netting

methinks you're picking at nits, to what end? i have my conjectures, but i'll reserve them in judgement for now :wink:

the issue of the detail of the label of 'mosquito' is far less important, or relevant, than the detail of the diameter at the heart of this little tif, and harping upon it doesn't do you much service, imo

i'd quit while i'm ahead, but that's just me

 

[mkirda]

Vitz,

My question regarding the 0.17 mm is not oriented to insult you or any one else. The way that number is presented to the readers by GreshanmH 0.17mm mesquito netting could lead readers to get the wrong idea. Is very different if the information is presented as 0.17 diameter 3/8" mesh. You can not use that to protect yourself from mesquitos. What is the right diameter?

Vitz, this is nothing personal. I just want readers getting the right information.

Jaime,

From the private discussions I have had, 0.17mm is the same diameter as used in mosquito netting- hence calling it that. 3/8th inch mesh would only protect you from really, really big mosquitos... :lol:

Barrier netting should be made with thicker monofilament. I don't have the figures in front of me, but 0.23mm seems to stick in my mind. You can get it in a range of thicknesses and strengths and their original point to you is that this is not good quality commercial netting.

Thickness is not the only attribute- the tensile strength is also a big one from what I understand.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Mike,

There are many factors related to net efficiency.

1) Material of net
2) Flexibility of netting cord
3) Tension of netting cord
4) Breaking strength of netting cord
5) Elongation of netting cord
6) Color of the net
7) Mesh of net
8) Hang-in ratio of the net
9) Stress-strain relation on netting cord

I worked with fisherfolks in Colombia for many years. Of course the type of fishing activity we discuss herein is different but many of the factors apply.

 

[mkirda]

Mike,

There are many factors related to net efficiency.

1) Material of net
2) Flexibility of netting cord
3) Tension of netting cord
4) Breaking strength of netting cord
5) Elongation of netting cord
6) Color of the net
7) Mesh of net
8) Hang-in ratio of the net
9) Stress-strain relation on netting cord

I worked with fisherfolks in Colombia for many years. Of course the type of fishing activity we discuss herein is different but many of the factors apply.

There are many more than this, Jaime.
One of the key problems with the thinner monofilament not discussed on the board is the fact that it often damages the fish, tearing fins, catching gills, etc. The weave of the net needs to be so that it is easily gathered underwater- I have heard of netting that was weaved so that it gathered from top to bottom, rather than side to side. I mean, that is worthless, like having hinges on the bottom of door, rather than on the side...

The most important factors would be material (and color), strength, thickness, mesh size, and gathering direction. Gotta get all these right, or the net can be practically useless.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Mike,
The top 'hanging door' metaphor was a good one.
The brittle, cheese slicer netting...[remember the cheese slicer metaphor?]
is good for bait fish and snagging silversides...but not for commercial fish collecting.
Imagine consulting for or managing a project for fish collectors that ignores local wisdom; evades Hawaiiian home grown skill and knowledge as well Australian...even though they speak English.
Imagine knowing so little about the subject that you pass over this 30-40 years of fish collecting history and think that it is your task alone to figure it all out from scratch.
This dis-connect from the basic...most basic of subject matter underscores the fact that the wrong people were in charge and routinely 'glossed over' this little stuff.
I found the dealer in the Honolulu yellow pages in three minutes...and it was just down the same street as MACs office.

The 1 lb. netting was at the net dealers as well as the real 2 lb. netting. Thats how the Hawaiians regard it and is simpler then trying to remember diameter size. Peter Rubec was there and saw & heard it all.
Now, if nothing else. The wrong netting can never be employed again w/out it getting out. Choosing the wrong stuff is like saying,
"Lets get past this trivial part so we can jump to the important stuff that WE DO understand."
That is an indicator of insenserity at worst, incompetence at best...and is why I have held groups to account for their flippantcy and ignorance on this even after they were well advised of the problem.
Repeat...even after they were well advised of the problem...
Steve
ps. Maybe we need more field trips to train our own people before the attempt to train others.