IS reefs.org aiding the sale of cyanide caught fish?

[nanocat]

From my perspective it looks like spawner needs to walk HIS talk.

If he's so quick to suggest a lawsuit, then I think HE needs to do the suing (and be prepared to pay the opposing fees when he loses).

It's one thing to "know" that fish are cyanide caught, etc. etc.

It's another thing to PROVE it about the specific fish you purchased. You have to prove they are guilty, they don't have to prove they are innocent. Doh.

 

[clarionreef]

Isn't doh...spelled duh?
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

No. Doh is spelled doh and duh is spelled duh.

 

[spawner]

Not to get an old post heated back up again, but my point was always and will always be that business, people, sites that have a large influence on hobbyist, most especially those that are new to the hobby have a responsibility to be honest with the consumer. I saw something going on and brought that to people's attention, in a very public way. Like or not, agree or disagree that is what I did. I wasn't looking of a huge fight or the heartburn from the post. My only objective was to get a large company to stop making false claims as to their product. There was no broader conspiracy just two / three days of heated threads. You can spin it anyway you want and justify what you. What they were doing was wrong, they agreed that it was wrong and changed their website and I am sure their customer service emails. I could have handled the situation differently / more effectively but that is that. I didn’t know Race Foster at the time I posted the thread; if I did, I would have emailed him directly to address my concerns.

Bottom line is that if the large companies / groups in the industry would stop lying to customers we wouldn't have so many problems. You can pretend that you don’t know what is going on out there or that you are not part of the problem, but anyone that sells something under false pretenses or over inflates the details is harming the consumer. There is no watchdog group in the industry to deal with all the false and misleading ads.

 

[clarionreef]

We all know that after hours in the bar is
where you finally catch a glimmer of the true feeling one has about a subject.

The next day when on sales mode its a different person speaking entirley.
We are expected to act one way in business life while privately thinking differently.
Spawner has simply pointed it out....thats sales culture is a world of spin, spin and more spin. Or as he less diplomatically...but more accurately pointed out...lies, lies and more lies.
Many salesman could not write down a non money oriented philiosophy of life if their life depended on it.

Conservation, sustainabilty, quality, service etc. used to mean something before windup talking heads watered down the meanings.
Now the most insincere non believers can speak the template of canned conservation and give the mob what it wants to hear.
They can offer a ready made, effortless conservation make-over to those who need it most and absolution as well.

This era of canned conservation reminds me of the political culture where all things are done for the children and their future.
Its standard advice for all candidates and parties and it works every time.....
For conservation and sustainability to mean anything they really have to amount to something beyond the blather and the auto-speak. The bone of contention here for years has been over this point...and why its so galling to see these noble terms used for pure sales motivations.

I applaud Spawner for being forthright in his observations.
Steve
PS. And, for the record, Haiti does juice a lot of their fish.

 

[Anonymous]

Not to get an old post heated back up again, but my point was always and will always be that business, people, sites that have a large influence on hobbyist, most especially those that are new to the hobby have a responsibility to be honest with the consumer. I saw something going on and brought that to people's attention, in a very public way. Like or not, agree or disagree that is what I did. I wasn't looking of a huge fight or the heartburn from the post. My only objective was to get a large company to stop making false claims as to their product. There was no broader conspiracy just two / three days of heated threads. You can spin it anyway you want and justify what you. What they were doing was wrong, they agreed that it was wrong and changed their website and I am sure their customer service emails. I could have handled the situation differently / more effectively but that is that. I didn’t know Race Foster at the time I posted the thread; if I did, I would have emailed him directly to address my concerns.

Bottom line is that if the large companies / groups in the industry would stop lying to customers we wouldn't have so many problems. You can pretend that you don’t know what is going on out there or that you are not part of the problem, but anyone that sells something under false pretenses or over inflates the details is harming the consumer. There is no watchdog group in the industry to deal with all the false and misleading ads.

that 'responsibility' (which is not a responsibility, or even an obligation) is so easily trumped by the moral obligation the caretaker of any animal species has to EDUCATE THEMSELVES ABOUT THAT SPECIES' PROPER HUSBANDRY.

i'm getting sick and tired of all of this 'innocent hobbyist/evil store' rhetoric- it's baseless, and has no bearing in reality-all business owners (or 99.999999% of them, regardless if they're lfs's, gas stations, or sears&roebucks) are in business to make money, and no one is foolish enough in other venues to assume that the merchant world starts with an assumed 'fair play attitude' on the sellers' part-do you walk into a car lot expecting the salesman to start out lowballing you ? :wink:

the truly hobbyist oriented stores are NOT the typical example of most lfs's, or etailers, for that matter (much in the same way a radio shack is NOT where you'd go to get good expert electronics advice and guidance ) and the hobbyists that actually care enough to learn about how to take care of an animal properly BEFORE they go and sentence it to a life under their care, are also a representative minority on the other side of the coin.

'research before you buy', and 'caveat emptor' come to mind


this should certainly not be construed to represent a cynical attitude towards hobbyists on my part, either-i make a living trying to help fix all that at the individual level (hwile selling goods to butter the bread, obviously)-and help hobbyists learn properly daily-but the above painted picture is the way things are in the real world, and reflect, after all, our nature at the 'crowd mentality' level.

it's about personal responsibility :idea:

 

[spawner]

it's about personal responsibility :idea:

That is exactly my point, of course hobbyist have to research what they buy. Your stupid not to. The seller/”expert” has an obligation not to out and out lie, misinform, or inflate the products/information they sell, especially in advertising and articles. All parties have a responsibility.