Having not seen the movie but seeing the previews, I wonder what the effects the movie wil have on the industry. I personally thing that although Nemo is caught and put in an aquarium I think every kind between the ages of 5 and 55 will want their own little Nemo. I hope ORA has been ramping up production becaue i see a whole lot of clownfish being sold around May 30th.
Effects of the Finding Nemo film
- Thread starter Bill2
- Start date
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Nemo mania about to break loose?
Geez I sure hope not.
Blue tangs already account for so much coral destruction in their collection. I hope the marketplace doesn't push them any harder then it already is doing. They're in season now and on living coral cover reefs they are popping up everywhere. The problem is, those reefs are futher and futher away as the nearer ones get cashed in. Cyanide collecting has decimated critical blue tang coral habitat near traditional collecting areas so they keep coming from futher and futher away. The big numbers today come from principally Davao and General Santos in Mindinao. Look it up on the map and see if you can get any futher away from Manila than that.
Nemo wouldn't bet collected and shipped from Australia in real
life. No normal importer would ever pay the Aussie price. The retail trade would never support that and hobbyist even less. Huge numbers come from Indonesia [ pro cyanide] and Philippines [allegedly moving away from it albiet without training and net supplies].
The Solomons, Tonga and Vanuatu provide token amounts comparitively.
Blue tangs are indicator species and reflect the % of coverage of old, live pocillipora and acropora stands. Attracting the squirt bottle to their hiding places deep in the interstices of the coral, their capture generally ensures a serious dose of poison.
Numb and oblivious to this, the general public grabs for the color and prettiness like a baby does for a rattle.
The more informed hobbyists and marinelife dealers often pretend to care...mix it with a dose of denial and then execute the sale.
The final consciencious 1% of marinelife dealers refuse to carry blue tangs unless they can get the few netcaught ones available. After 20 years of net trainings from the NGOs we've been hearing of, this amounts to practically nothing and not enough to stock one single L.A. wholesaler.
This is why some of us are angry. If its what you do for a living, whats the alternative? Selling out??? What if you are the rare few who find that offensive and unacceptable? What if you insist on a policy of not using your purchasing power to help accelerate coral destruction? What if you want to do the right thing?
And what if there is still no @#*#@# net training and netting supply moving forward to allow you to do the right thing???
Mary, Jenn, Tim, Judy...will anyone ever understand why it is so important to have blue tangs caught with nets? So that we can be complete and compete on a more level playing field. This is where much of the anger comes from that newbies and innocents just walk in and say, "Hey guys, can't we all just get along?"
ITS VERY UNFAIR FOR HONEST DEALERS to compete against the cyanide trade and twice as unfair if that trade recieves absolution from some "environmental NGO".
DON'T JUST JUDGE THE TRUE BELIEVERS ON THE SUPERFICIAL STUFF. TRY AND SEE WHAT LIES BENEATH. What would you do? Would you just sell out like almost everyone else? Or would you stay honest, stay sincere and ...yes, stay passionate about the question?
Sincerely, Steve
ps. Well, what would you all do?
Geez I sure hope not.
Blue tangs already account for so much coral destruction in their collection. I hope the marketplace doesn't push them any harder then it already is doing. They're in season now and on living coral cover reefs they are popping up everywhere. The problem is, those reefs are futher and futher away as the nearer ones get cashed in. Cyanide collecting has decimated critical blue tang coral habitat near traditional collecting areas so they keep coming from futher and futher away. The big numbers today come from principally Davao and General Santos in Mindinao. Look it up on the map and see if you can get any futher away from Manila than that.
Nemo wouldn't bet collected and shipped from Australia in real
life. No normal importer would ever pay the Aussie price. The retail trade would never support that and hobbyist even less. Huge numbers come from Indonesia [ pro cyanide] and Philippines [allegedly moving away from it albiet without training and net supplies].
The Solomons, Tonga and Vanuatu provide token amounts comparitively.
Blue tangs are indicator species and reflect the % of coverage of old, live pocillipora and acropora stands. Attracting the squirt bottle to their hiding places deep in the interstices of the coral, their capture generally ensures a serious dose of poison.
Numb and oblivious to this, the general public grabs for the color and prettiness like a baby does for a rattle.
The more informed hobbyists and marinelife dealers often pretend to care...mix it with a dose of denial and then execute the sale.
The final consciencious 1% of marinelife dealers refuse to carry blue tangs unless they can get the few netcaught ones available. After 20 years of net trainings from the NGOs we've been hearing of, this amounts to practically nothing and not enough to stock one single L.A. wholesaler.
This is why some of us are angry. If its what you do for a living, whats the alternative? Selling out??? What if you are the rare few who find that offensive and unacceptable? What if you insist on a policy of not using your purchasing power to help accelerate coral destruction? What if you want to do the right thing?
And what if there is still no @#*#@# net training and netting supply moving forward to allow you to do the right thing???
Mary, Jenn, Tim, Judy...will anyone ever understand why it is so important to have blue tangs caught with nets? So that we can be complete and compete on a more level playing field. This is where much of the anger comes from that newbies and innocents just walk in and say, "Hey guys, can't we all just get along?"
ITS VERY UNFAIR FOR HONEST DEALERS to compete against the cyanide trade and twice as unfair if that trade recieves absolution from some "environmental NGO".
DON'T JUST JUDGE THE TRUE BELIEVERS ON THE SUPERFICIAL STUFF. TRY AND SEE WHAT LIES BENEATH. What would you do? Would you just sell out like almost everyone else? Or would you stay honest, stay sincere and ...yes, stay passionate about the question?
Sincerely, Steve
ps. Well, what would you all do?
Those tiny blue tangs are found around table coral heads when they come onto the reef after their larval stage. To collect them in many areas the collectors scare them into the table coral then break off the coral from the substrate and take it to the surface. At the surface the coral is shaken to remove the tiny blue tangs which are then placed in the bucket. The Coral is then either tossed over the side or if the collector is at least somewhat caring it is placed in a crevice between two rocks. Some collectors do this and collect from the same coral head repetitively others just toss them back into the ocean. Planktonic capture, collection and rearing is one method which could be more eco-friendly but the cost of the crest nets and light traps is quite out of reach of the village collectors. We have ordered some up here in American Samoa and I will update you on just how well they work later.
Mike
Mike
I rest my case! After 20 years we're still chasing our tails and making very little progress. If we could ALL throw our egos, power struggles, testosterone and estrogen in the sump and stay FOCUSED on working together to accomplish our goals, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Tell ya what...if I were a philanthropist looking for a good cause to donate to and checked this forum out, I'd probably leave without reaching for my wallet.
No offense intended toward anyone. It's because we're all so passionate about this hobby that things get so heated.
NS
I rest my case! After 20 years we're still chasing our tails and making very little progress. If we could ALL throw our egos, power struggles, testosterone and estrogen in the sump and stay FOCUSED on working together to accomplish our goals, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Tell ya what...if I were a philanthropist looking for a good cause to donate to and checked this forum out, I'd probably leave without reaching for my wallet.
No offense intended toward anyone. It's because we're all so passionate about this hobby that things get so heated.
NS
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Buy Nancy,
The 20 years of fruitless net training was administered by non aquarium people for non aquarium purposes...ie. all financial.
The philanthropists ie. mega foundations you spoke of bankroll this kind of stuff all the time...many years now.
The aquarium trade has received this attention from the outside because it is won't to support its own salvation from the inside. Its dealers are too busy going to work today to sell NEMO, sell filters for NEMO and food for NEMO.
Our problem became something of a funding football eagerly coveted by outside NGO groups with the luxury to work on papers, game plans, conferences, mission statements and grants all day long.
It is obvious to me that if the solution does not evolve with and from the trades own expertise, the "carpetbagger" approach will continue.
The conflicts that have arisen have arisen over turf and finance, not 'what is the best way to collect and handle NEMO."
As the movie approaches, the trade has little defense in how it collects blue tangs. It cultures some ocellaris clowns and markets them direct to lowball chain stores [ruining the achievement] and collects NEMO with cyanide.
There are no certified NEMOS as he no longer lives where the few, very few certified fish come from. In much of his traditional homeland he is commercially extinct.
At least Disney has come up with a way to make money off of him. They could bankroll an entire Indo and Philippine net training effort
run by professionals if they really cared about NEMO. And they could do this with the first hours ticket sales.
Got to go to work...
Steve
The 20 years of fruitless net training was administered by non aquarium people for non aquarium purposes...ie. all financial.
The philanthropists ie. mega foundations you spoke of bankroll this kind of stuff all the time...many years now.
The aquarium trade has received this attention from the outside because it is won't to support its own salvation from the inside. Its dealers are too busy going to work today to sell NEMO, sell filters for NEMO and food for NEMO.
Our problem became something of a funding football eagerly coveted by outside NGO groups with the luxury to work on papers, game plans, conferences, mission statements and grants all day long.
It is obvious to me that if the solution does not evolve with and from the trades own expertise, the "carpetbagger" approach will continue.
The conflicts that have arisen have arisen over turf and finance, not 'what is the best way to collect and handle NEMO."
As the movie approaches, the trade has little defense in how it collects blue tangs. It cultures some ocellaris clowns and markets them direct to lowball chain stores [ruining the achievement] and collects NEMO with cyanide.
There are no certified NEMOS as he no longer lives where the few, very few certified fish come from. In much of his traditional homeland he is commercially extinct.
At least Disney has come up with a way to make money off of him. They could bankroll an entire Indo and Philippine net training effort
run by professionals if they really cared about NEMO. And they could do this with the first hours ticket sales.
Got to go to work...
Steve
Bill2":sd7nyl9f said:
Actually in their current specials flyer they make mention of this
I've had a few people ask if I'll see the movie - I have no life so probably not (not til it comes on TV anyway LOL!) but maybe I'll venture out, just to see what people are saying about it.I laughed because I've got my own pair of false percs in my store display that I've had for a year or so, plus I just "adopted" 2 blue tangs that a customer traded in as she is getting out of the hobby - she has had them for 4 years -- now they are in my display, so the shop is suddenly aptly "themed" :lol:
For what it's worth, I'm also stocking up on books -- impulse shoppers who arrive at my place, looking for their own Nemo, with no other knowledge, shall first leave with a BOOK. If they return and have read the book and are still interested, then we talk tanks...
I just wonder how many people will want to put their Nemo and their blue tang (what's the tang's name anyway?) in a 10 g tank? :8 Methinks there is a lot of work ahead on the educational front....
As for egos and hormones.... well by virtue of the stance that some take, and the narrow view that some take, I don't think we can ever reach that Utopian "all just get along" idea scenario -- however I do see some forward progress being made within the industry itself, one hobbyist, one retailer at a time... and that leads to one importer/wholesaler at a time, and that's leading to one exporter, one collector at a time. Takes time to turn that Titanic around - but it will pick up speed as more come on board. Like I keep saying, when educated hobbyists make demands the retailers will follow if they want to stay in business, and so the change will occur. Not all hobbyists take a proactive stance, but all retailers SHOULD, since it is their livelihood at stake. Retailers work the "front lines" with the hobbyists, and we shoudl be attempting to educate all who will listen.
However, I do see some entitities, and one in particular, who in my opinion, does more to impede real progress than it does to help it. I'm certainly not about to drop my feelings about that into the proverbial sump.... One step forward is no good if it's followed by two steps backward.
Jenn
I think the emphasis is on the retailers for this one. They are going to have to educate the parents. Just like when 101 Dalmatians was released, everyone wanted one. Only to find out that the breed is notoriously bad with kids.
The concern I have at the store is the fact that parents are going to be coming in asking for a clown fish in a bowl. The worse-case is that some watch-dog groups like PETA, who don't know the industry, get involved. but I hear its a good movie......
The concern I have at the store is the fact that parents are going to be coming in asking for a clown fish in a bowl. The worse-case is that some watch-dog groups like PETA, who don't know the industry, get involved. but I hear its a good movie......
cortez marine":1s8rwgdo said:
Hey Steve - you callin' me a low-ball chain store????
I buy from ORA... I have 10 little Nemos..... :roll:I know what you're saying though....
That's OK when people ask me why I have lots of Nemos and no Dorys (or precious few if I'm lucky) I can tell them why.
Jenn
John,
How do you know Nemo is an ocellaris and not a true perk? Also I thought this movie sort of made keeping these fish in tanks look like some sort of a crime or something. I didn't know it cast fishkeeping in a positive light that would make people want to set up aquariums.
How do you know Nemo is an ocellaris and not a true perk? Also I thought this movie sort of made keeping these fish in tanks look like some sort of a crime or something. I didn't know it cast fishkeeping in a positive light that would make people want to set up aquariums.
dizzy":2v5a2nn6 said:
Mitch,
Nemo is drawn as an ocellaris not a percula. There is of course artistic license used throughout the film, but most species are accurately drawn. Look for a number of shark species, a Moorish Idol, a yellow tang, a humbug damsel, a royal gramma and more.
The film will not be portraying the aquarium industry, nor the hobby, in a positive fashion.
John Brandt
MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago
mkirda":2bxe44ch said:
Wrong Mike, MAC's presence at the Hollywood premiere (it was yesterday) was predominantly based on the knowledge and prediction that the film will cast negative overtones on the industry and hobby.
MAC has launched a Nemo-related public relations campaign to counter what could even be false allegations against the industry/hobby. I helped write the verbage of a flyer that will be given out to children (or anyone) to prepare them for being a responsible marine aquarium hobbyist. MAC takes the future of this industry and its reform, very seriously.
John Brandt
MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago
Mike R King":wai78kzz said:
Actually not so. I visited a post larval rearing place in Tahiti and they are doing sooooo well they cannot supply demand. I would love to show you pictures of their traps , somewhat island made, but I'd be afraid of them being copied javascript:emoticon(':lol:') and we wouldn't want that
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