MSI Philippine Net Fund

[N1N2EGT]

Caught one, killed one and the other one got away...

and as you said, "peace"

Hey, if you have information, how about being less vague and more straightforward? It's not too much to ask...

Peace,

Chip

Let me tell you some trooper, None of us here(PI) knows about this netting/fundraising scam. I didn't find out about this fiasco until I started surfing the webs and landed here.(5 yrs later) I did a little of CSI work and all people could tell me, apparently the net disappeared under the radar after it was unloaded from the delivery truck as seen in the picture under this thread. Some said, it went rotting in some warehouse of some big guns. Thar's all I know and I don't want to know anymore than that.

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, fair enough. So it's assumed that the cyanide-enablers did this?

Peace,

Chip

 

[PeterIMA]

You are surprised to find a Pinoy who uses slang words and yet you don't want me to be surprised; to find out that a person like you, knows better than our situation here. I'll give you a heads up, Mrs. Ty is lobbying our politician to bring back our rights to ship seahorses(yes sir..hippocampus sp) without CITES.
I may not know a lot about Philippine export but I can guarantee you that, I know more than you know. Sorry to say that.

N1N2EGT

Actually, I don't think you know very much. I helped found the IMA and have been involved with these issues in the Philippines and other countries for over 25 years (see my info posted earlier today).

With regard to CITES permits for seahorses, it is not likely that Lolita Ty can do anything to change international regulations. Seahorses are listed on CITES Appendix II. The CITES regulation of the trade in seahorses cannot be repealed by the Philippines Congress. It applies worldwide with CITES signatory countries. The most she can do is to lobby the Philippine Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) to issue CITES export permits for seahorses.

With regard to Chip's questions, the hand netting supplied by Mary Middlebrook to Ferdinand Cruz (discussed extensively on this forum in past postings) was knotless mesh nylon netting suitable for scoop nets. It is manufactured and sold by an American company called Internet (recently they changed the company name).

Ferdinand Cruz of EASTI has been distributing it for free to the collectors he has been training in both the Philippines and in Indonesia. It is not rotting in a warehouse. The quantity of netting (about 5,000 linear feet) was enough to last many years. So, there is no need for more of this kind of netting. If NIN2EGT or other exporters also distribute it, they are to be commended. So, yes it is getting into the hands of those for whom it was intended (the collectors of MO fish) in the Philippines.

My understanding from recent articles published in Coral and TFH magazines is that there is still a shortage of this type of manufactured hand netting in Indonesia. The papers by Mr Liley associated with MAC indicate that the collectors in Bali, Indonesia weave their own hand netting.

With regard to Chip's third question, I don't think such a program would be more efficient today. The exporters could have and still can do more to make netting available to the collectors. Barrier netting is more readily available now than it was a decade ago because it is now manufactured in several places (China, Tiawan). A good supplier exists in Honolulu. But, I am not aware of any exporters providing it free to collectors. About a decade ago, Lolita Ty supposedly donated 20 rolls of barrier netting to the IMA to support net training. But, she demanded to be paid for it.

Peter

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks very much for the answers, Peter. I appreciate it.

Peace,

Chip

 

[clarionreef]

Chip
_________________

I can hear your bare feet on the kitchen floor.
I don't have to have these dreams no more.
I found someone just to hold me tight...
...hold the insomniac all night.

Huh Chip?
How about being less vague and more straightforward? It's not too much to ask...
Steve
Post scripts are not in play so much and need not be explained so well IMO.

 

[Anonymous]

You suckling at the tequila teat again tonight, Steve?

What the hell are you talking about?

Peace,

Chip

 

[clarionreef]

N1N2EGT wrote:
Caught one, killed one and the other one got away...

and as you said,

Hey, if you have information, how about being less vague and more straightforward? It's not too much to ask...

Peace,

Chip
_________________

 

[Anonymous]

Right...I asked him to clarify because I didn't know what the hell he was talking about. He then stopped speaking in code, explained it in normal English, and I understood.

Peace,

Chip

 

[clarionreef]

So what does this mean?

Caught one, killed one and the other one got away...

Im in Papua New Guinea now to train divers and we have so much netting material that we sleep on it.
A bundle of barrier netting makes a great pillow.
.
No one can even realistically pretend to do this work without securing the netting material first.

Netting material in hand, and up front shows that fisherman come first....helps to reveal the priorities of the project and confirms the competence of it.
Netting, netting everywhere and not an ounce of cyanide in sight.
As Peter said, it has become easily available to anyone sincere enough to actualy want it.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

That's great news, Steve.

Now tell me, what is the main obstacle in every location of the world where divers make a living catching ornamental fish acquiring barrier netting?

I'm not being sarcastic, I really want to know what you think it is.

Peace,

Chip

 

[clarionreef]

Chip,
The refusal... or the ignorance.... or the insensitivity of the business class to supply or aid in the supply of this requisite material, even though they were willing to supply or aid in the supply of poison.
This fact of history has defined them and what kind of people they were/are .
steve

 

[Anonymous]

If barrier netting is cost-effective as opposed to cyanide, then why won't they listen to a cost-analysis of how much money their business would save if they invested in training and netting instead of the juice?

Peace,

Chip

 

[clarionreef]

Listen?

They are the old guard that held that to take the conversion to nets seriously was to admit that there was a problem in the first place.
Losing was unacceptable on this queston and the history of intransigence has simply continued as a syndrome to this day.
Like I said, their mindset defines them....as their treason to their countries patrimony damns them.
steve


[/b]

 

[Anonymous]

So they will lose money just to salvage pride?

Peace,

Chip

 

[N1N2EGT]

N1N2EGT

Actually, I don't think you know very much. I helped found the IMA and have been involved with these issues in the Philippines and other countries for over 25 years (see my info posted earlier today)

I don't think I benefited from any of your work here in the Philipinnes. But whatever it was I'd like to thank you. But on the other hand, I think someone else benefited more. Why? where would all those grant monies goes if not it in someone's pocket. I'm not saying your pocket. So don't get me wrong.

With regard to CITES permits for seahorses, it is not likely that Lolita Ty can do anything to change international regulations. Seahorses are listed on CITES Appendix II. The CITES regulation of the trade in seahorses cannot be repealed by the Philippines Congress. It applies worldwide with CITES signatory countries. The most she can do is to lobby the Philippine Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) to issue CITES export permits for seahorses.

Someone said that "the greatest failure is when you failed to try". You should know that because you have a PhD in your pocket.

With regard to Chip's questions, the hand netting supplied by Mary Middlebrook to Ferdinand Cruz (discussed extensively on this forum in past postings) was knotless mesh nylon netting suitable for scoop nets. It is manufactured and sold by an American company called Internet (recently they changed the company name).

Tell Mr F Cruz that some guy name Mr. Mallari wanted to say HI to him...he he he he.. half a million pesos,,tha's alot of dough to burn in a week.

Ferdinand Cruz of EASTI has been distributing it for free to the collectors he has been training in both the Philippines and in Indonesia. It is not rotting in a warehouse. The quantity of netting (about 5,000 linear feet) was enough to last many years. So, there is no need for more of this kind of netting. If NIN2EGT or other exporters also distribute it, they are to be commended. So, yes it is getting into the hands of those for whom it was intended (the collectors of MO fish) in the Philippines.

Yeah, you and him set up that EASTI project somewhere in the Bicol Province when every single 5th grader here in the Philippines knows that the region(Bicol) is the typhoon path of the Philippines. Does that means those 5th grader are smarter than you guys put together? Sorry to say that. And that exactly what happened, your pet project was destroyed by a typhoon last year. But then again that would be a good explanation to the grant auditor or accountants.

My understanding from recent articles published in Coral and TFH magazines is that there is still a shortage of this type of manufactured hand netting in Indonesia. The papers by Mr Liley associated with MAC indicate that the collectors in Bali, Indonesia weave their own hand netting.

With regard to Chip's third question, I don't think such a program would be more efficient today. The exporters could have and still can do more to make netting available to the collectors. Barrier netting is more readily available now than it was a decade ago because it is now manufactured in several places (China, Tiawan). A good supplier exists in Honolulu. But, I am not aware of any exporters providing it free to collectors. About a decade ago, Lolita Ty supposedly donated 20 rolls of barrier netting to the IMA to support net training. But, she demanded to be paid for it.

Whatever Mrs Ty does is not my concern. As I said before, I provide my divers/suppliers with the netting they need free of charge. And I'm not going to go out there just to prove it. Whether you believe it or not is not my problem. That's your problem.


[/img]

 

[Anonymous]

nowhere

N1N2EGT,
You get the 4 snap Z "you go boy" said in a true southern sister gansta accent!

you can be a southern'er gangsta for all you want. but to me you're nothing but a hillbilly bob with no clue about the industry nor how to live in the new world of ITech. :lol:

Now, why on earth would you want to go and insult someone who is in support of what your doing? Oh, you don't need my "hillbilly bob" support, which should really read "redneck cracker". Fine, I'll give it to someone else.

Just because you think someone doesn't know about the "industry", doesn't make it so.

 

[PeterIMA]

Tell Mr F Cruz that some guy name Mr. Mallari wanted to say HI to him...he he he he.. half a million pesos,,tha's alot of dough to burn in a week.

You have been maligning the honesty of Ferdinand Cruz, when the person who got greedy and caused the loss of a very large grant was Mr. Mallari. Ferdinand Cruz and Tomas Cabagay are still owed funds from Mr. Mallari.

Yeah, you and him set up that EASTI project somewhere in the Bicol Province when every single 5th grader here in the Philippines knows that the region(Bicol) is the typhoon path of the Philippines. Does that means those 5th grader are smarter than you guys put together? Sorry to say that. And that exactly what happened, your pet project was destroyed by a typhoon last year. But then again that would be a good explanation to the grant auditor or accountants.

The choice of the site in the municipality of Bacacay (Albay Province) was made based on the availability of healthy reefs, a productive area with plankton and larval fishes. It was a poor choice from the point of view of typhoons (as you mentioned). The hatchery created in Banao was not funded by a grant. It was funded from personal savings of Ferdinand Cruz and other individuals. So, no explanation is required to any grant auditor or accountant related to a grant. I was not involved in its creation. I just visited the site in November 2005 and reported about it here on RDO.

 

[Anonymous]

Lolita Ty is a name I haven't heard in a long time.

 

[clarionreef]

My understanding from recent articles published in Coral and TFH magazines is that there is still a shortage of this type of manufactured hand netting in Indonesia. The papers by Mr Liley associated with MAC indicate that the collectors in Bali, Indonesia weave their own hand netting..

Amazing!
These city people in Denpasar still have not supplied netting material to poor divers despite numerous trips abroad and attendance at dozens of Aquarium trade conventions ???!!
They still, after years of handling budgets and drawing salary based on the assumption of talent and expertise have not begun their work??
To presume to replace the cyanide trade with a sustainable alternative when you have no alternative is what... if not a scandal?
The village in Les has tons of this netting supplied by Cruz and I know as I used it as a bed cushion there was so much.
There is no lack of netting in Bali so long as you bring it in to serve the project you serve.
It was my pleasure at the time to compliment this trove of handnetting with barrier netting donated by AMDA in 2004.

I remember the Lileys as agents trying to steal the netcaught divers of Les in order to claim the conversion achievement as their own.

In their series of years without the basic netting and subsequent years of lack of training, these would-be trainers of men must somehow justify continued salary to someone I presume.
In the private sector they would have been fired in 2004 aready.

There is no lack of netting ...only lack of ability, talent, experience and aquaintance with any commercial or professional entities who could easily and instantly tell them where to go. The complete intellectual insolvency required to remain out of the loop for all these years is but another indictment against this ineffectual type of "environmentalism".
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, I have a few questions about this thread :

1. Exactly what kind of netting was sent over by the MSI fundraiser? Was it hand netting or barrier netting or both?

2. Did it ever get into the hands of those it was intended to?

3. If the same initiative happened today, five years later, would it be more successful/efficient than it was back then?

Peace,

Chip

Your joking, right? If you read the thread it will answer all your questions. Nothing has been heald back here in this forum in those regards. A little foot work will reveal all. Again, google is your friend. As a MOD of this forum the questions you ask are a bit odd. It's as if you're NEW to the discussion at hand, even though this is a multi year old thread!!!!!