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clarionreef

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Lee,
Hand-Netting. A physical product is the easiest thing to account for there is in this question. There are recipts and there are cargo reciepts for it.
Value of work rendered for salaries, per diems, infrastructure, transportation and the whims of the boss of a training organization are not.
The situation reminds me of something Colin Powell said leading up to the war in Iraq. He said that everyone will vote on bombs, bullets and missiles, but not on transport ships, supplies and infrastructure costs, paper clips and all the things it takes to actually enable the war. Politicians want to get credit for voting on the the sexy issues, but not the essential less understood ones.
Nets are like the bullets in this situation.
Now that the hand-netting issue is accepted as a legitamate one, I am thrilled. Next in the sequence or constructive, genuine progress is to support the provision of "barrier netting"...which costs 4 times more then handnetting.
Finally will be to support the training of net collectors and that involves salaries of trainers and asst. trainers, food, transportation, boat gas, etc.
But...I'm, getting ahead of things. The general public next must recognize the need for barrier netting to go along with the hand-netting.
Without the two...you are not a complete collector and likely to backslide.
Steve @ AMDA NET FUND
 

mkirda

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naesco":q21ar58b said:
Mike
Reefers donated money for netting.
The first netting material was delivered to the fishers on Zambales on or about August 1/03

Can I ask you the source of this information?

Did Imperial purchase the fish caught by these fishers with the nets?
Thank you

Wayne, I have had no contact with Imperial ever. I have had no contact with the fishermen of San Salvador Island in Zambales either. Looking at Reefbase, it appears that they are quite close to Palauig.

Why are you asking if these fishermen sold fish to Imperial Marine?
Isn't that their right? To be able to sell to whomever gives them the best price?

Something isn't right in the line of questioning... Spill the beans, Wayne. What are you trying to get at?

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

mkirda

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SciGuy2":1iytvvyt said:
Innuendo aside, I think many of the questions here are fair ones. It just shows that people really want cradle-to-grave accountability regarding how donated money/materials are spent/used. Right now there isn't a procedure in place to track donations once they get to the P.I. is there?

-Lee

Lee,

I'm not insulted by the questions, as long as they are framed as questions and they are asking legitimate and answerable questions.

As far as I know, there have been three sources of netting so far:
Mine, AMDA's and MSI's.

I asked Ferdie to distribute my netting however he deemed appropriate.
I am satisfied with this.

AMDA sent over quite a bit, and at least a portion was given to the MAC divers, and apparently to the divers in Palauig. Some more was given to an exporter to distribute as they deemed appropriate. I am not aware of what conditions AMDA put on giving away the netting. Steve could answer this though.

As far as the MSI netting goes, as far as I am aware, not a single foot of this netting has yet been distributed, mainly as Ferdie had just gotten a bundle from me in July, and he was still working on distributing this.

As far as the distribution policy of the MSI netting, at the moment, there is none. Ferdie indicated to me before he left that he wanted to put a policy into place before this netting was to be distributed. As I have indicated before, I have given him my input into this matter, and it is now really up to him and Mary Middlebrook to hammer out the policy.

And, Lee, honestly, if you have any input into this, or want to have input, e-mail me and Mary and I'm sure that we will try to incorporate it into the policy. The same goes for others.

At the same time, it seems to me that there is more to this line of questioning than meets the eye, and I wish they would be less circumspect.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

PeterIMA

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Response to accusations made by Jaime Baquero.

I had hoped that this would not be necessary. However, Jaime has made some serious accusations against Ferdinand Cruz and Steve Robinson. This is unfortunate, since Jaime does not have any first hand information (he is operating from hearsay and an overactive imagination).

First, Ferdinand Cruz assisted his sister with her business (Reg and Rix Enterprises, which existed from 1986-1989. He had his own business in partnership with his mother from 1992-1994. The second company was not called Marine Enterprises (I forget the name). There was no conflict of interest because when he joined IMA he shut down his company.

Ferdinand has advocated linking the collectors to buyers. During 1998 and 1999 the IMA conducted Enterprise Training to teach collectors business skills like book-keeping, packing, invoicing etc. Ferdinand has been involved in linking collectors to responsible exporters such as AMRI, ISPCRT, Aquarium Habitat, Imperial Marine, RVS etc. For this, he does not collect any renumeration. It is consistent with his (and my) belief that it is not enough just to train collectors to use nets. They need to obtain an economic incentive from export companies to continue to use nets.

In the past, many net-collectors went back to the use of cyanide because exporters (such as those associated with the PFTEA) refused to provide economic incentives and mixed net-caught fish with cyanide fish. Then they advertised "all" of their fish as being net-caught.

As I have previously explained, Ferdinand has encouraged the collectors to form their own federation. Roger Hernandez (the collector that Mike Kirda met in Palauig) has been doing this. Ferdinand does not control the collectors. Hence, he does not control to which companies the collectors choose to sell their fish. Pricing determines this. The exporters that Ferdinand has recommended pay more for the fish. Ferdinand does not profit from this.

Ferdinand and other Filipinos recently incorporated an environmental NGO called EASI. EASI stands for East Asian Seas Initiative. If Ferdinand wished to be in the marine fish trade, why would he form an NGO? The answer is he is not in the fish trade. He wants to continue to train collectors as part of an NGO. He will not be the President. He will continue to be a Community Organizer/Field Trainer. More information will be released soon about EASI.

It is not a crime for an NGO to work to improve the livelihood of the collectors. Considering that the collectors must make a living, it is necessary to link the collectors to responsible buyers (exporters). Hence, there is a need to understand and regulate the trade to the benefit of the collectors, the local municipalities, and foster sustainability of coastal habitats including coral reefs.

Steve Robinson is a volatile character, whom I have known for the past 20 years. While, we don't always see eye-to-eye, I can vouch for his sincerity and honesty. Steve wears several hats including owning a business (Cortez Marine) and being president of AMDA. He also has aligned himself to collaborate with CORL and EASI. Is that a confict of interest? I don't believe so.

Jaime has accused Steve and Ferdinand of being in business with Imperial Marine. This is not the case. Imperial has sold fish to Steve's company and to the company owned by Mary Middlebrook over the past six months. This is not a crime. Most importers will not reveal the names of their suppliers. Why, should Steve be any different? Steve explained that Imperial was having problems with some of their shipments. Hence, he did not recommend Imperial to others at that time. This was the truth. Imperial corrected the problems and recently has been shipping quality fish.

I can supply contact information for Imperial Marine to other importers who wish to buy their net-caught fish. I have supplied this information to several companies already. So, Steve and Mary do not have a monopoly on net-caught fish being exported by Imperial Marine. I don't benefit from recommending net-caught suppliers. What I did learn is that the major importers in the USA have not been willing to switch to 100% net-caught fish. It is not because they don't know how to contact net-caught suppliers. It gets back to pricing. The net-caught fish still cost a little more, and the major importers don't want to pay more.

So, Jaime stop accusing Ferdinand and Steve of a conspiracy. They know each other. I know them as well. Does that make me part of a conspiracy?

Peter Rubec
 

MaryHM

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I'm really getting ticked as I read this thread, so I'm going to try to restrain myself from saying what I really think and stick to the nuts and bolts of the situation.

1. The netting fundraiser has been the most transparent thing anyone has done to date for the reform movement. If you want to know the latest, then look at the page at www.reefsource.com That is where the updates will be posted. Not here. I'm too busy to post a blow by blow description here, at RC, all of the other interested discussion boards and on my website. The website is the central location for the information.

2. The policies for distribution were laid out at RC when we first started the fundraiser. Ferdinand is to give the netting to any collector who has either been trained in the past and knows how to use nets, or to any collector he or others may train in the future that need nets. Distribution is at Ferdinand's discretion and this was clearly laid out at the beginning of the fundraiser. The nets are not hoarded and given to only collectors that supply my operation. If that were the case, we probably could have sent over about 100' of netting vs. the 2.5 miles we sent because my fish system is SMALL. We currently import about 15 boxes of PI fish every two weeks. That is NOTHING. And we have no plans or intentions of expanding our fish system. We don't have the room or the time. Our next project is our greenhouse- not more fish systems.

3. Collectors in the Philippines sell to many different exporters. Very few (if any) collectors are employed directly by the exporters. Because of this, it's impossible to track exactly where every fish collected with the netting material will end up. And frankly, I don't care where the fish go, as long as they are hand caught.

4. Why naesco has to ask me the questions on RC and Mike the same questions here is beyond me. This is an MSI/RC netting fundraiser. Mike Kirda was gracious enough to do a lot of work and arrange the shipping, saving us at least $1500 and probably more. However, if there are questions about the netting material that was collected specifically in the MSI/RC fundraiser I am the point person for that.
 

Jaime Baquero

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PeterIMA":8ncvv0ts said:
Response to accusations made by Jaime Baquero.

I had hoped that this would not be necessary. However, Jaime has made some serious accusations against Ferdinand Cruz and Steve Robinson. This is unfortunate, since Jaime does not have any first hand information (he is operating from hearsay and an overactive imagination).

Peter, I do have first hand information. I visited Marine Enterprises in Manila. I met F. Cruz mother.

First, Ferdinand Cruz assisted his sister with her business (Reg and Rix Enterprises, which existed from 1986-1989. He had his own business in partnership with his mother from 1992-1994. The second company was not called Marine Enterprises (I forget the name). There was no conflict of interest because when he joined IMA he shut down his company.

Peter, It is Marine Enterprises.

Ferdinand has advocated linking the collectors to buyers. During 1998 and 1999 the IMA conducted Enterprise Training to teach collectors business skills like book-keeping, packing, invoicing etc. Ferdinand has been involved in linking collectors to responsible exporters such as AMRI, ISPCRT, Aquarium Habitat, Imperial Marine, RVS etc. For this, he does not collect any renumeration. It is consistent with his (and my) belief that it is not enough just to train collectors to use nets. They need to obtain an economic incentive from export companies to continue to use nets.

In the past, many net-collectors went back to the use of cyanide because exporters (such as those associated with the PFTEA) refused to provide economic incentives and mixed net-caught fish with cyanide fish. Then they advertised "all" of their fish as being net-caught.

As I have previously explained, Ferdinand has encouraged the collectors to form their own federation. Roger Hernandez (the collector that Mike Kirda met in Palauig) has been doing this. Ferdinand does not control the collectors. Hence, he does not control to which companies the collectors choose to sell their fish. Pricing determines this. The exporters that Ferdinand has recommended pay more for the fish. Ferdinand does not profit from this.

Ferdinand and other Filipinos recently incorporated an environmental NGO called EASI. EASI stands for East Asian Seas Initiative. If Ferdinand wished to be in the marine fish trade, why would he form an NGO? The answer is he is not in the fish trade. He wants to continue to train collectors as part of an NGO. He will not be the President. He will continue to be a Community Organizer/Field Trainer. More information will be released soon about EASI.

It is not a crime for an NGO to work to improve the livelihood of the collectors. Considering that the collectors must make a living, it is necessary to link the collectors to responsible buyers (exporters). Hence, there is a need to understand and regulate the trade to the benefit of the collectors, the local municipalities, and foster sustainability of coastal habitats including coral reefs.


Steve Robinson is a volatile character, whom I have known for the past 20 years. While, we don't always see eye-to-eye, I can vouch for his sincerity and honesty. Steve wears several hats including owning a business (Cortez Marine) and being president of AMDA. He also has aligned himself to collaborate with CORL and EASI. Is that a confict of interest? I don't believe so.


Jaime has accused Steve and Ferdinand of being in business with Imperial Marine. This is not the case. Imperial has sold fish to Steve's company and to the company owned by Mary Middlebrook over the past six months.
This is not a crime. Most importers will not reveal the names of their suppliers. Why, should Steve be any different? Steve explained that Imperial was having problems with some of their shipments. Hence, he did not recommend Imperial to others at that time. This was the truth. Imperial corrected the problems and recently has been shipping quality
fish.

According to S. Robinson he is not buying fish from Imperial.

Peter, please see the thread Who is Imperial?

I can supply contact information for Imperial Marine to other importers who wish to buy their net-caught fish. I have supplied this information to several companies already. So, Steve and Mary do not have a monopoly on net-caught fish being exported by Imperial Marine. I don't benefit from recommending net-caught suppliers. What I did learn is that the major importers in the USA have not been willing to switch to 100% net-caught fish. It is not because they don't know how to contact net-caught suppliers. It gets back to pricing. The net-caught fish still cost a little more, and the major importers don't want to pay more.

So, Jaime stop accusing Ferdinand and Steve of a conspiracy. They know each other. I know them as well. Does that make me part of a conspiracy?

Peter, we spoke over the phone about this and other matters. I have doubts because of the developments in the last months and because of the matters I learnt first hand during my trips to the Philippines. I am not accusing anybody of a conspiracy, I am saying that efforts from some individuals are not sincere.

There are inconsistencies in the information presented by some individuals. Please see the thread What MAC can do? M.Kirda answered Sardonic question by saying that F. Cruz helped his sister's export business back in the 1980's..... You know that F. Cruz had a business with his mother back in 1992-1994. I was in the Philippines in 1995 and the business was open.

Peter Rubec
Peter,
 

Jaime Baquero

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MaryHM":3gqlhjlq said:
I could frankly care less about what Ferdinand did in the 80's or 90's. He is training collectors to use nets. He is training them properly. No one is arguing that fact. That is the only thing I care about. Jaime, if you want to try to turn this into some vast conspiracy then I must wonder about your own agenda.

Mary,

No hidden agenda. I am honest and sincere as you are. When I have doubts I ask. I do believe in right and wrong and I have always chosen right.

Jaime
 

Jaime Baquero

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mkirda":2zp54aqy said:
Jaime Baquero":2zp54aqy said:
As we can see there is a concern, from some readers, about the role that Ferdinand Cruz is playing in this reform movement.

Ferdinand is also a victim of quite the vicious whisper campaign.
Hint after hint of impropriety, all done with no evidence to back any of it up.

Sorta like your post, actually...

In the responses posted by Mike Kirda I found some inconsistencies with what I found while in the Philippines as follows.

During 1995 -1998 and while in the Philippines I had an important task which was to know the best possible way all about the trade of marine ornamental fish in the Philippines.

Jaime, this sentence makes absolutely no sense to me...
All the words are fine... They just don't make any sense when strung together in this way. Can you please re-word the sentence in a some way as to make it comprehensible?

One of the first things I did was to visit almost all the exporters facilities in Manila. I had good response from exporters and visit a good number of them. One of the business was called Marine Enterprises it was operated by Perfecto Pascua, during the visit I also learnt that Ferdinand Cruz was linked to the operation.

Later on I found that F. Cruz was linked to one of the NGO's dealing with the net training program. I got direct information from colleagues of F. Cruz that F. Cruz was getting fish from the trained collectors to bring to Marine Enterprises. To me, this situation "smelled fishy" as I wrote down in my note book. It was clear that F. Cruz was taking personal advantage of the net training program. That is called conflict of interest.

Ok, so six to eight years ago, Ferdie was also introducing net collectors to exporters? Is this the big secret?
Or are you trying to insinuate something more?
If so, what exactly? This is far too vague, Jaime.

I consider F. Cruz background is not clear. I have serious doubts given the developments in the lasts months, and the facts that I knew from previous trips to the Philippines.

Ok. I feel like I did when I watched The Empire Strikes Back now...
Are you just going to leave the reader hanging???
Hint, then hang... Hint, then hang...

F. Cruz resigned from MAC only weeks before his contract expired. Now he is running around the Philippines getting in contact with all the collectors he helped to train while working with IMA and MAC. He has traveled to the US getting in contact with fish importers in the East. One thing for sure F. Cruz knows about the fish business, he knows there is money to be made.

Really? How come every time he has travelled here, I have been able to reach him at his relative's homes? He travels here to visit his family, and suddenly it is a vast fish conspiracy? Gimme a break, Jaime... You identify with Mulder a little too much.

Messages posted by M. Kirda and Mary are sign that they do not know about F. Cruz past activities. I do not blame them is not their fault.

I found strange that Ferdinand Cruz didn't mention to M. Kirda anything about the business operation Marine Enterprises. Why? Why he didn't mention it to Mary?

What is F. Cruz real relation with Imperial?

These and other matters must be clarified and pronto.

I apologize for not disclosing these concerns before.

Even more importantly, I really don't give a rat's rear end what Ferdie was doing six or eight years ago unless it was running drugs or molesting little children. If he happened to be a middleman for a time, then 'saw the light' and started net trainings, so be it.

I don't find it strange that Ferdinand didn't mention his former employer to me. Ferdinand probably doesn't know I once worked for US Robotics either... Are you going to accuse me of hiding this information from him, and hint of conspiracy now? Conspiracy of... something?

So far, all I see here is yet more unsubstantiated innuendo. Can't you offer more than that, Jaime? I thought that, as a marine biologist, you had some idea of what was going on over there. :wink:

Regards.
Mike Kirda


Mike,

If you do not find strange that F. Cruz didn't mention his former employer to you, why did you answered Sardonic question saying that Ferdinand was just helping his sister back in the 1980's. The point here is that Ferdinand was in the business, as Peter Rubec has confirmed, it was in 1995. You have been telling the readers that Ferdinand is nothing else than a trainer that you knew his background and the only thing he had done related to the trade was to help his sister. You were misinforming the readers. Other readers have asked what is the relation between F. Cruz and Imperial. You do not know that as you didn't know that he was in the business himself as Peter Rubec has confirmed..

jaime
 

mkirda

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Jaime Baquero":7t5nxkin said:
Mike,

If you do not find strange that F. Cruz didn't mention his former employer to you, why did you answered Sardonic question saying that Ferdinand was just helping his sister back in the 1980's. The point here is that Ferdinand was in the business, as Peter Rubec has confirmed, it was in 1995. You have been telling the readers that Ferdinand is nothing else than a trainer that you knew his background and the only thing he had done related to the trade was to help his sister. You were misinforming the readers. Other readers have asked what is the relation between F. Cruz and Imperial. You do not know that as you didn't know that he was in the business himself as Peter Rubec has confirmed..

jaime

Jaime,

It is no secret that Ferdie has been involved with fish in the Philippines in one way or another since the 80's. Ferdie actually showed me where the old export facility was. During the six days we were together, he told me of a lot of different things, most of which I've never spoken about on-line. Does the fact that I choose what to include (and what not to include) mean that I am misinforming people? I don't think so. We all use information to illustrate a point.

I recall that Ferdie told me about a business he was involved in during a certain time frame. I could not tell you any of the details because, frankly, I deemed them unimportant enough to write down in my journal. I would be misinforming 'my readers' (god, that sounds so conceited...) if I professed to offer details of this because my recollection of it is so fuzzy.
I cannot recall if he offered his partner's name, if he had a partner, where the business was, what it was called... None of it comes back to me. I do recall that he told me that he quit the job when he joined IMA.

As far as his relationship with Imperial, again, I can only offer what he has told me. He was approached for help getting net-caught fish. He helped introduce them to collectors. He told me that he was not employed by them, that he was still currently unemployed (this was circa May of this year...). Since that time, I have not spoken to him about Imperial Marine at all that I can recall.

Again, why would you worry about him trying to help develop ties with another net-caught exporter, introducing collectors to this alternative exporter? What is so chilling about this? To me, this sounds like simple business development...

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 
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Thanks for quoting Peters entire post, with out replying to it Jamie, way to keep things clean and straight. What happened, your post just fizzled out. A failed post?
 

PeterIMA

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Gresham, I think that Jaime embedded some responses into my message that he posted.

One clarification. According to my records the name of the company that Ferdinand ran with his mother in the early 1990s was "EsteFerd Hand-Caught"

Peter Rubec
 

clarionreef

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Jaime wrote;
"I believe in right and wrong and I have always chosen right".
Really?
...'ALWAYS CHOSEN RIGHT?"
Then forgive us and allow us to reconcile ourselves to your infallibility .Shouldn't you re-word that a bit?
You also say that Ferdie helped his sister and also his mother? For shame, for shame!

And for the record, I have not imported from Imperial since May...but, because of your posts I think I'll ask for a stock report and perhaps resume.
Steve
You gotta get better stories and better information guy.
 
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Thanks Peter, I would've gone right over that, as its not really the way to post in a forum. If you quote something, don't respond within the quote field, seperate the quotes paragraphs, and respond to the points outside of the quote field. That way its in plain view, for all to see. otherwise, you'd need the FBI's carnivour software to break the code :D .

Hey Jamie, what happenned to OVI's site, you've got listed on your profile? Its some survey site now, you know, the kind that pays to use defunct sites URLs.
 

Jaime Baquero

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GreshamH":2okdqu3x said:
Thanks Peter, I would've gone right over that, as its not really the way to post in a forum. If you quote something, don't respond within the quote field, seperate the quotes paragraphs, and respond to the points outside of the quote field. That way its in plain view, for all to see. otherwise, you'd need the FBI's carnivour software to break the code :D .

Hey Jamie, what happenned to OVI's site, you've got listed on your profile? Its some survey site now, you know, the kind that pays to use defunct sites URLs.

Hey Greshman no your business. If someone is 'really" interested in knowing about OVI's site please send me an e-mail and I'll answer that.
 

Jaime Baquero

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cortez marine":1mgkr9ls said:
Jaime wrote;
"I believe in right and wrong and I have always chosen right".
Really?
...'ALWAYS CHOSEN RIGHT?"
Then forgive us and allow us to reconcile ourselves to your infallibility .Shouldn't you re-word that a bit?
You also say that Ferdie helped his sister and also his mother? For shame, for shame!

And for the record, I have not imported from Imperial since May...but, because of your posts I think I'll ask for a stock report and perhaps resume.
Steve
You gotta get better stories and better information guy.

Yes, Always.
 

Jaime Baquero

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mkirda":j1y6txb4 said:
Jaime Baquero":j1y6txb4 said:
Mike,

If you do not find strange that F. Cruz didn't mention his former employer to you, why did you answered Sardonic question saying that Ferdinand was just helping his sister back in the 1980's. The point here is that Ferdinand was in the business, as Peter Rubec has confirmed, it was in 1995. You have been telling the readers that Ferdinand is nothing else than a trainer that you knew his background and the only thing he had done related to the trade was to help his sister. You were misinforming the readers. Other readers have asked what is the relation between F. Cruz and Imperial. You do not know that as you didn't know that he was in the business himself as Peter Rubec has confirmed..

jaime

Jaime,

It is no secret that Ferdie has been involved with fish in the Philippines in one way or another since the 80's. Ferdie actually showed me where the old export facility was. During the six days we were together, he told me of a lot of different things, most of which I've never spoken about on-line. Does the fact that I choose what to include (and what not to include) mean that I am misinforming people? I don't think so. We all use information to illustrate a point.
*********************
Mike, allow the readers to have their own opinion. The idea readers had was that Ferdinand was the dedicated and passionated field trainer working on his own. If you read the thread. How is Imperial? and What MAC can do? you'll see that never was stated that Ferdinand was exporter or had a related business. That can change readers point of view. There is information that is vital and must be disclosed when dealing with sensitive matters as the one we're addressing here. The question that probably won't get answer is to know if Ferdinand is in parternship with Imperial. If you recall something else please let us know.

Regards

jaime

****************************

I recall that Ferdie told me about a business he was involved in during a certain time frame. I could not tell you any of the details because, frankly, I deemed them unimportant enough to write down in my journal. I would be misinforming 'my readers' (god, that sounds so conceited...) if I professed to offer details of this because my recollection of it is so fuzzy.
I cannot recall if he offered his partner's name, if he had a partner, where the business was, what it was called... None of it comes back to me. I do recall that he told me that he quit the job when he joined IMA.

As far as his relationship with Imperial, again, I can only offer what he has told me. He was approached for help getting net-caught fish. He helped introduce them to collectors. He told me that he was not employed by them, that he was still currently unemployed (this was circa May of this year...). Since that time, I have not spoken to him about Imperial Marine at all that I can recall.


Again, why would you worry about him trying to help develop ties with another net-caught exporter, introducing collectors to this alternative exporter? What is so chilling about this? To me, this sounds like simple business development...
*********************************************
Mike, things are not clear that's all.

jaime

****************************************
Regards.
Mike Kirda
[/b]
 

mkirda

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Jaime Baquero":19c2ehid said:
Mike, allow the readers to have their own opinion. The idea readers had was that Ferdinand was the dedicated and passionated field trainer working on his own. If you read the thread. How is Imperial? and What MAC can do? you'll see that never was stated that Ferdinand was exporter or had a related business. That can change readers point of view. There is information that is vital and must be disclosed when dealing with sensitive matters as the one we're addressing here. The question that probably won't get answer is to know if Ferdinand is in parternship with Imperial. If you recall something else please let us know.

Jaime,

I have never thought or tried to lay claim to 'the only way'.
Diversity in thought and opinion is important to me- Remember, I work within academia.

You seem to think that the fact that Ferdie once worked in a family fish exporting business is somehow earthshatteringly important. That the fact that he did so now makes him tainted and untrustworthy in any way. At the very least, this is what you insinuate.

Over the course of the time we were together, I can only tell you of my thoughts and impressions. They are my opinions and my opinions alone.

Ferdie talked about the fish business quite a bit. It is apparent that there is a bit of a love-hate relationship there. His heart was never really in running the business, and this is readily apparent.

When Ferdie starts to talk about the collectors, there is this amazing change. His face lights up. He smiles. His eyes sparkle. He becomes far more animated. He is in his element. His ethusiasm is infective, his passions he wears on his sleeve.

There is much to admire about the man. I would also have to confess that there is a lot I do not know about him. I do not know his mother's name, although I have spoken to her a half dozen times. I've met his daughter a couple of times, her nickname was Cheka, but I have no idea what her real name is. He has another daughter of which I am aware, but I do not know much about her. He has a wife, whom I have also spoken with, but I do not know her name either. He is somewhat private, chosing not to speak about these things with me. Is this out of a regard for privacy, or do you ascribe it to hiding something, Jaime?

If I gave the readers of this forum the impression that Ferdie is a dedicated and impassioned field trainer, then I guess I did a pretty good job of conveying my feelings without ever giving them a lot of thought...
Sorry to the readers of this forum that I never considered Ferdie's involvement in the second family export business 'vital' or 'sensitive' in any way. It was not my intention to mislead anyone, if in fact anyone was mislead. You deem this information vital, Jaime. Now it is out there for everyone to make up their own opinion.

As far as the final question, Is Ferdie involved in a business relationship with Imperial Marine? I've already answered it to the best of my knowledge. Contact me privately for his phone number: I suggest that you give him a ring and ask him yourself so you can get this whole thing cleared up once and for all.

And one final point, Jaime: Wasn't I the one to tell people repeatedly that they should go to the Philippines and meet with Ferdie and the collectors, and make up their own minds?

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

naesco

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mkirda":18sv9pa9 said:
naesco":18sv9pa9 said:
Mike
Reefers donated money for netting.
The first netting material was delivered to the fishers on Zambales on or about August 1/03

Can I ask you the source of this information?

Did Imperial purchase the fish caught by these fishers with the nets?
Thank you

Wayne, I have had no contact with Imperial ever. I have had no contact with the fishermen of San Salvador Island in Zambales either. Looking at Reefbase, it appears that they are quite close to Palauig.

Why are you asking if these fishermen sold fish to Imperial Marine?
Isn't that their right? To be able to sell to whomever gives them the best price?

Something isn't right in the line of questioning... Spill the beans, Wayne. What are you trying to get at?

Regards.
Mike Kirda

Mike I received the information that the first of the nets purchased with funds donated by reefers were given to them on or about August 1/03 from reviewing www.seacrop.com

Are you still in contact with Fergie? Can you also provide me with his phone/fax and email number and also that of Imperial? Does Imperial have a website?
Thank you
 

naesco

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MaryHM":2pf9hjbt said:
I'm really getting ticked as I read this thread, so I'm going to try to restrain myself from saying what I really think and stick to the nuts and bolts of the situation.

1. The netting fundraiser has been the most transparent thing anyone has done to date for the reform movement. If you want to know the latest, then look at the page at www.reefsource.com That is where the updates will be posted. Not here. I'm too busy to post a blow by blow description here, at RC, all of the other interested discussion boards and on my website. The website is the central location for the information.

2. The policies for distribution were laid out at RC when we first started the fundraiser. Ferdinand is to give the netting to any collector who has either been trained in the past and knows how to use nets, or to any collector he or others may train in the future that need nets. Distribution is at Ferdinand's discretion and this was clearly laid out at the beginning of the fundraiser. The nets are not hoarded and given to only collectors that supply my operation. If that were the case, we probably could have sent over about 100' of netting vs. the 2.5 miles we sent because my fish system is SMALL. We currently import about 15 boxes of PI fish every two weeks. That is NOTHING. And we have no plans or intentions of expanding our fish system. We don't have the room or the time. Our next project is our greenhouse- not more fish systems.

3. Collectors in the Philippines sell to many different exporters. Very few (if any) collectors are employed directly by the exporters. Because of this, it's impossible to track exactly where every fish collected with the netting material will end up. And frankly, I don't care where the fish go, as long as they are hand caught.

4. Why naesco has to ask me the questions on RC and Mike the same questions here is beyond me. This is an MSI/RC netting fundraiser. Mike Kirda was gracious enough to do a lot of work and arrange the shipping, saving us at least $1500 and probably more. However, if there are questions about the netting material that was collected specifically in the MSI/RC fundraiser I am the point person for that.

Fine Mary, you have requested that I direct all questions about the netting to you directly, and to do so on the RC board.
I will do that.
 

mkirda

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naesco":r55coqr7 said:
Mike I received the information that the first of the nets purchased with funds donated by reefers were given to them on or about August 1/03 from reviewing www.seacrop.com

Wayne,

A while back I posted something regarding this here.
It seemed important to me to convey something I have done repeatedly:
Ferdinand is very concerned about appearances. He wants to be sure that the donated MSI netting is distributed in a fair and equitable way, and that there is a policy in place before distribution of the donated netting occurs.
So far, none of this netting has been distributed.
Mary has indicated here that she is going to be satisfied with whatever system Ferdinand puts into place.
From my last conversation with him, it was clear that he considers it his responsibility to be open and forthright with how the netting would be distributed, and a policy would be put into place.

The pictures of the netting you saw being distributed was actually not from the rolls. So your information is wrong.

Are you still in contact with Fergie?
Well, I haven't spoken to Brian in a few weeks. Why? Do you need a good skimmer? His are top-rate!

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 
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