How many fish does the hobby kill in PI per year?

[mkirda]

The artical said that a boat full chinese fishermen were caught collecting with cyanide in the waters of PI........the algae farms in the area were effected by the intense levels of cyanide in the water..........WHAT do you really think these were pet fish collectors?

Kalk,

The article made absolutely no mention of Chinese fisherman whatsoever.
Read it again.

Yet another lame attempt at misdirection. Or is it outright lying now?

 

[Kalkbreath]

Some of the 116 Chinese fishers who were arrested have apparently been arrested a few months ago. They were allegedly using the same vessel they were caught in. The boat only has different bow number.
Representative Etta Rosales, on the other hand said, she is disappointed with how the judicial system in Palawan works because the Chinese fishers can get away with their crime.
"Iyong mga prosecutors dini-dismiss ang kaso kahit malinaw na may mga malalakas na ebidensya. Ang pawikan ay endangered species, bakit nila pakakawalan? May problema ang judicial system dito," she said.
She wants to make an inquiry why the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) would allow the Chinese fishers to go free every time they are arrested for intrusion.
"Ano ba ang dahilan kung bakit parati na lamang nakakawala sa pananagutan ang mga ito samantalang sa mga NGOs palang ay ang dami-dami ng ebidensya," Representative Rosales said.
Meanwhile, the Bureau of Immigration and Deportation (BID) cautioned the local court in allowing the Chinese fishers to post bail. Commissioner Andrea Domingo said violation of immigration laws charges have already been filed against them.
Ong, on the other hand, is now being sued for bribery.
According to Major General Manuel Carranza of the Western Command, he tried to bribe the navy men who were stationed at Tubbataha on the day they were arrested for illegall fishing inside Tubbataha Reef National Marine Park.
Ong is also known by his alias Lucio Ko. In China, he goes by the name Xu Qingjang. He is allegedly married to a Filipina and runs a business in Quezon town in southern Palawan.
He allegedly offered P30,000 to the park rangers of Tubbataha when they were arrested for violation of the Philippine Fisheries Law. Corruption of public officials is a serious offense, General Carranza said. The case against him was filed on February 7.
Representative Rosales warned authorities to be cautious when dealing with Ko. "Magaling mag-maniobra ang taong ito kaya dapat na pag-ingatan ng mga opisyal kung paano makikipag-deal sa kanya," she added.
The 116 Chinese fishers were arrested in two separate incidents in the province, particularly in Tubbataha Reef National Marine Park (TRNMP) and near Lumbucan Island, Balabac.

The report a read two weeks ago had a photo of the captain smiling ......this is all thats there now ?

 

[cmoresps]

I did not read this entire thred so forgive me, but I am in the business and can QUARANTEE the airlines are directly responsible for the vast majority of coral and fish deaths in this country. They lose cargo everyday, including dead bodies (I have a viable source for making that statement). 8O

 

[PeterIMA]

cmosresps, Too bad you did not read the thread and others like it posted over the past several years. You are wrong to state that the "vast majority" of fish and coral deaths in this country are due to the airlines. The airlines do account for a proportion of the problem, but the majority of the fish die DAA (Dead After Arrival) from stress, ammonia, and the compounded effects of having been collected with cyanide.

Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

It really quite simple........Small doses of a sedative {like cyanide} put a fish to sleep ..............huge doses of the same sedative will kill ......As testified under oath in a courtroom in the 1980s by Steve Robinson ......[quote].."Cyanide is used exclusively by the food fish industry."[.end quote]......If cyanide fishermen are effecting Algae farms hundreds of meters from the fishing grounds , then those fishermen are using cyanide levels that are way beyond what tiny reef fish like those collected for our hobby can survive exposer to........{Mental note}Our collectors export live fish

:roll:

 

[mkirda]

They lose cargo everyday, including dead bodies (I have a viable source for making that statement). 8O

Heck, they lose LIVE PEOPLE.
I was just reading on CNN a couple of weeks back about a case where someone sent their mother via a connecting flight and she never arrived.
The case was already years old and they never found her. She got off the flight and was met by a wheelchair then headed to the connection and left there. She never was put on the flight and never found.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

NEVER HAVE I HAD THE PLEASURE TO TESTIFY AGAINST THE CYANIDE TRADE...IN A COURTROOM. [SIGH]

Speaking in absolutes ie. "exclusively" in testifying about the food fish trade when I was writing against the cyanide aquarium trade at the time as well doesn't make sense.
Then...it came from Kalk, so I guess it does.
So...this was what kept us in suspense? This is the great 'trick' you were waiting to pull?
Go make up something else! Something plausible this time.
Steve

 

[mkirda]

"Iyong mga prosecutors dini-dismiss ang kaso kahit malinaw na may mga malalakas na ebidensya. Ang pawikan ay endangered species, bakit nila pakakawalan? May problema ang judicial system dito," she said.

Let's see about using up my lunch time to see what she said... Good Tagalog practice anyway...

"These prosecutors dismissed (these here) cases even though it was clear that there was strong evidence. The tortoise is an endangered species- Why were they set free? We have a problem with the judicial system here. "

"Ano ba ang dahilan kung bakit parati na lamang nakakawala sa pananagutan ang mga ito samantalang sa mga NGOs palang ay ang dami-dami ng ebidensya," Representative Rosales said.

What is the excuse (reason) why always
to answer for
taking advantage of many NGOs (palang?)
large amount of evidence

Representative Rosales warned authorities to be cautious when dealing with Ko. "Magaling mag-maniobra ang taong ito kaya dapat na pag-ingatan ng mga opisyal kung paano makikipag-deal sa kanya," she added.

Ah, harder than I thought... I'll have to come back to this later.

Mike

 

[clarionreef]

You got it Mike,
She just said the judicial system is corrupt and despite the evidence gathered by various groups...the crooks were set free.
In fact, even when the case involved sea TURTLES....they were still set free.
Steve
PS. Poor Philippines!
No one is harmed more by the corruption and malfeascence of duty then Filipinos!

 

[horge]

"Iyong mga prosecutors dini-dismiss ang kaso kahit malinaw na may mga malalakas na ebidensya. Ang pawikan ay endangered species, bakit nila pakakawalan? May problema ang judicial system dito," she said.

"These prosecutors dismissed the case even though it was clear that there was strong evidence. The sea turtle is an endangered species- Why were (the offenders) set free? The judicial system has a problem here. "

"Ano ba ang dahilan kung bakit parati na lamang nakakawala sa pananagutan ang mga ito samantalang sa mga NGOs palang ay ang dami-dami ng ebidensya," Representative Rosales said.

Just what is the reason why these (offenders) always escape responsibility, despite there being so much evidence with the NGO's alone (aside from any further evidence that might turn up in a criminal investigation)?, Rep. Rosales said.

Representative Rosales warned authorities to be cautious when dealing with Ko. "Magaling mag-maniobra ang taong ito kaya dapat na pag-ingatan ng mga opisyal kung paano makikipag-deal sa kanya," she added.

Rep Rosales warned authorities to be cautious when dealing with Ko.
"This (person) is skillfull in manipulation, so officials should take care how they deal with him/her(?)", she added.





Ownly een da Peelipins....

 

[naesco]

NEVER HAVE I HAD THE PLEASURE TO TESTIFY AGAINST THE CYANIDE TRADE...IN A COURTROOM. [SIGH]

Speaking in absolutes ie. "exclusively" in testifying about the food fish trade when I was writing against the cyanide aquarium trade at the time as well doesn't make sense.
Then...it came from Kalk, so I guess it does.
So...this was what kept us in suspense? This is the great 'trick' you were waiting to pull?
Go make up something else! Something plausible this time.
Steve

Don't worry Steve. You and many others on this board will be the star witnesses soon.

 

[Kalkbreath]

NEVER HAVE I HAD THE PLEASURE TO TESTIFY AGAINST THE CYANIDE TRADE...IN A COURTROOM. [SIGH]

Speaking in absolutes ie. "exclusively" in testifying about the food fish trade when I was writing against the cyanide aquarium trade at the time as well doesn't make sense.
Then...it came from Kalk, so I guess it does.
So...this was what kept us in suspense? This is the great 'trick' you were waiting to pull?
Go make up something else! Something plausible this time.
Steve

I thought I posted the actual link to that quote some where on this board Back then.{did anyone check it out then?} I am sure like most of the other links I had concerning this quote issue they have been pulled for some strange reason........Like the library of Congress? Why would they remove it? ? So until I can find the website I read the quote from last year ..........I shal retract the Steve quote. For now.........But on the otherhand you have agreed that in the late sventies and early eighties that 85% of live food fish collection was with cyanide, so perhaps 85% would not qualify as "exclusively" But damn close! So what exactly is your point with defending the issue of what you said or did not say back in 1980? My real question is what percent of live food fish in 1980 WHERE collected with cyanide ? whats your answer NOW ?

 

[clarionreef]

Of the live cyanide food fish trade;
Back in the early 80's it was more of a Chinese smuggling industry, mostly off Palawan. Thanks to the exposes, it was taken over by Filipinos and only then did it spread thruout the country in a really big way.
Steve

 

[Kalkbreath]

And from that time until now .......how many live food fish have been collected .........what percent with cyanide ? How many total pounds of cyanide live food fish ? 10 thousand metric tons per year? And lastly , Peter speaks of fishermen throwing hand fulls of cyanide pellets over board to knuke food fish.........exactly what year did that event take place?

 

[Anonymous]

Hey kalk, I don't think you've sworn Steve and Peter in yet

Mr. Robinson and Doctor Rubec, do you swear to tell the truth and only the truth so help you god?

 

[PeterIMA]

The incident where cyanide was spread from a boat occurred off of Santiago Island near Bolinao in Western Luzon. It is describe in a paper published by DelNorte et al. (1989) in the Coastal Zone Management Proceedings. I cited the paper in my TURFs paper published in 2001. The fishermen spreading the cyanide from a boat and those on 20 bamboo rafts to retrieve the fish were observed by Dr. John McManus from an ultralight aircraft.


Del Norte, A.G.C. et al. 1989. Overfishing on a Philippine coral reef, a glimpse into the future. In: Coastal Zone '89. O.T. Magoon et al. (eds.). pp.3087-3097, American Society of Civil Engineer, New York, NY.

 

[mkirda]

"Ano ba ang dahilan kung bakit parati na lamang nakakawala sa pananagutan ang mga ito samantalang sa mga NGOs palang ay ang dami-dami ng ebidensya," Representative Rosales said.

Just what is the reason why these (offenders) always escape responsibility, despite there being so much evidence with the NGO's alone (aside from any further evidence that might turn up in a criminal investigation)?, Rep. Rosales said.

Representative Rosales warned authorities to be cautious when dealing with Ko. "Magaling mag-maniobra ang taong ito kaya dapat na pag-ingatan ng mga opisyal kung paano makikipag-deal sa kanya," she added.

Rep Rosales warned authorities to be cautious when dealing with Ko.
"This (person) is skillfull in manipulation, so officials should take care how they deal with him/her(?)", she added.

Hey, Horge...

You are messing me up! LOL. That 'NGOs palang' threw me until last night when I showed it to my Mother-in-law and she slowly realized it should be 'pa lang'. Still difficult to translate.

The last one- You did a more literal translation than I.
A more figurative translation might be:
This person is a snake, so the officials should take care/be careful in how they deal with him.
or
This person has a great knack for getting out of sticky situations, so ...

I get the feeling that 'is a snake' was the nuance Ms. Rosales was trying to convey.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Kalkbreath]

The incident where cyanide was spread from a boat occurred off of Santiago Island near Bolinao in Western Luzon. It is describe in a paper published by DelNorte et al. (1989) in the Coastal Zone Management Proceedings. I cited the paper in my TURFs paper published in 2001. The fishermen spreading the cyanide from a boat and those on 20 bamboo rafts to retrieve the fish were observed by Dr. John McManus from an ultralight aircraft.


Del Norte, A.G.C. et al. 1989. Overfishing on a Philippine coral reef, a glimpse into the future. In: Coastal Zone '89. O.T. Magoon et al. (eds.). pp.3087-3097, American Society of Civil Engineer, New York, NY.

YES BUT WHAT YEAR DID THE EVENT TAKE PLACE ? NOT WHEN DID THE RECOLLECTION .

 

[Anonymous]

Kalk, you'd make an excellent lawyer, what the heck are you doing in MO? I bet you could get Peterson off Scott clean, huh? Eh, thats bad.

 

[horge]

Mike,
Hindi ko naman nais man-lait ng mga ahas

-----------

Mike,
I didn't want to offend any snakes




.