Proposed Forum Guidelines & Hopes for MAC Representation
- Thread starter jamesw
- Start date
What do we do if they {MAC} cant answer our questions .....{in a way that makes us all happy }.......Maybe there are no areas in PI which are "certifiable"..by our definition .....Maybe they{MAC} realize only now five years into it , that there is no way testing is going to produce 100% clean results ? Forcing MAC to openly admit on this board that what they set out to accomplish is seeming to be impossible ...would accomplish what ? What if There is no reply to Blue hula and her questions about certification ......? Do we really think MAC is going to have a rosy answer as to why they have so few fish to sell ? This board is going to beat MAC into the ground........James , I suggest you prepare five questions ahead of time ......Pass them on to MAC and let them first prepare themselves for the onslaught.......Then let MAC offer a prepared reply to our five questions .......Post their reply on the board .......and let us rebut their reply ..............That might be the best way to enable MAC to wade back into these uncharted waters .....
If I am understanding your requesting for "guidelines" as to how we should conduct ourselves IF a MAC rep agrees to appear on this forum-- we are all to act nicey-nicey- accept "I dont knows"-remain uninvolved emotionally with a subject that many of us are passionately CONCERNED with- and in essence be part of a polite chit chat .
It sounds like what is being hoped for , is that a larger group of people will have input, and those of us who know more of the background are supposed to keep silent.
Fine, if that is what the moderaters want achieved.
Personally, if I want to read hype from Mac, I will go print out their website. If I want the nitty-gritty of the industry, it cant be accomplished by listening, or responding to, polite chit chat !!!!
For the record, one has to fight to win the war, we all know what happens with political and polite "discussions" !!!!!
As I understood this forum to be "the industry behind the hobby", that means those of us who are involved with the industry behind the hobby, are supposed to be discussing things from the industries prospectus. We want it cleaned up and we are passionate about that. Tie our hands behind our backs and nothing will ever get accomplished !!!
It sounds like what is being hoped for , is that a larger group of people will have input, and those of us who know more of the background are supposed to keep silent.
Fine, if that is what the moderaters want achieved.
Personally, if I want to read hype from Mac, I will go print out their website. If I want the nitty-gritty of the industry, it cant be accomplished by listening, or responding to, polite chit chat !!!!
For the record, one has to fight to win the war, we all know what happens with political and polite "discussions" !!!!!
As I understood this forum to be "the industry behind the hobby", that means those of us who are involved with the industry behind the hobby, are supposed to be discussing things from the industries prospectus. We want it cleaned up and we are passionate about that. Tie our hands behind our backs and nothing will ever get accomplished !!!
Hi Flameangel,
You said:
This is exactly why I posted this message. Oftentimes, I feel that the tone of the forum is "all out war." Personally, I'd like to change that. It doesn't mean gagging anyone or forbidding certain topics - that's not my intention.
I'm looking for the Geneva Convention - some guidelines like "you will not use nerve-gas, and you will not torture prisoners...
This is my personal opinion. I'm not the moderator of this forum - Rover is and he's doing a great job. I'm usually just a participant - however, I'm posting this thread as an Admin in order to get feedback. That's why I've moderated it and even deleted some posts. I won't do that in any other threads in this forum.
Cheers
James
You said:
This is exactly why I posted this message. Oftentimes, I feel that the tone of the forum is "all out war." Personally, I'd like to change that. It doesn't mean gagging anyone or forbidding certain topics - that's not my intention.
I'm looking for the Geneva Convention - some guidelines like "you will not use nerve-gas, and you will not torture prisoners...
This is my personal opinion. I'm not the moderator of this forum - Rover is and he's doing a great job. I'm usually just a participant - however, I'm posting this thread as an Admin in order to get feedback. That's why I've moderated it and even deleted some posts. I won't do that in any other threads in this forum.
Cheers
James
By using the words "fighting to win the war"- it means agreeing and just accepting politely , does NOT accomplish anything of substance. The squeeky wheel is the one that gets oiled. Is that better wording ??
We simply can not sit back and accept the status quo on the issues of supply and sustainability in this industry. Nor can we sit back and accept the pr being put out there vis-a-vis FAMA , for example.
The average hobbyist can not differentiate between what is real and what is hype.
But, if that hobbyist is reading the real facts on this forum, they have a much clearer picture.
We need the freedom to speak out about the facts as we see them.
For the record, like Mary, I am a very outspoken and passionate person and my customers APPRECIATE the fact that I care enough to "squeek" loudly. I do not want to see a p*ssing match either, but also do not want to see polite , empty verbiage in this forum.
That would not be worth wasting valuable time reading.
We simply can not sit back and accept the status quo on the issues of supply and sustainability in this industry. Nor can we sit back and accept the pr being put out there vis-a-vis FAMA , for example.
The average hobbyist can not differentiate between what is real and what is hype.
But, if that hobbyist is reading the real facts on this forum, they have a much clearer picture.
We need the freedom to speak out about the facts as we see them.
For the record, like Mary, I am a very outspoken and passionate person and my customers APPRECIATE the fact that I care enough to "squeek" loudly. I do not want to see a p*ssing match either, but also do not want to see polite , empty verbiage in this forum.
That would not be worth wasting valuable time reading.
my $0.02 regarding 'hopes for MAC representation'..
i would not want to see any representative of MAC involved in any dialogue here, until the emails/info requests/questions asked of them from all who have sent them queries get answers, even privately, first.
otherwise,imo, anything MAC has to say HERE must be construed as being disingenuous.
if mac shows that they are willing to bite the bullet, so to speak, and show the people like blue hula, mary, et al, the minimal courtesy of answering their questions, which were posed via the venue that MAC, themselves, provided, (the emasil link on their website), then i, for one, would be more than happy to see an 'official', and knowledgable, MAc rep here on the forum.
but...
if MAC's intent is to be the continuation of b.s. 'spin', and a disrespectful silence towards valid/legitimate questions/concern, then both their presence here, and anything they may say/do elsewhere, for, me, is both undesirable, and completely useless for any type of constructive dialogue to proceed further, anyway, making MAC's involvement here worthless, as, imo, has been the case so far
i would not want to see any representative of MAC involved in any dialogue here, until the emails/info requests/questions asked of them from all who have sent them queries get answers, even privately, first.
otherwise,imo, anything MAC has to say HERE must be construed as being disingenuous.
if mac shows that they are willing to bite the bullet, so to speak, and show the people like blue hula, mary, et al, the minimal courtesy of answering their questions, which were posed via the venue that MAC, themselves, provided, (the emasil link on their website), then i, for one, would be more than happy to see an 'official', and knowledgable, MAc rep here on the forum.
but...
if MAC's intent is to be the continuation of b.s. 'spin', and a disrespectful silence towards valid/legitimate questions/concern, then both their presence here, and anything they may say/do elsewhere, for, me, is both undesirable, and completely useless for any type of constructive dialogue to proceed further, anyway, making MAC's involvement here worthless, as, imo, has been the case so far
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
People,
MAC is involved here already.
Not much goes on that they don't read themselves directly or copy it over to Mt. Olympus.
As with anyone anywhere, you can contribute to this forum without an invitation, a drum roll or special rules for handling intellectually delicate people who may be offended by the very process of dialogue and debate our own presidential candidates go thru every day now.
Watch how they pile on each other...watch how they handle themselves. Like Dean or not...he does take it and dish it our in a rather unflappable way. But then again anyone proprosing to lead us has to be that way!
Thats what we call...er, leadership.
Now, if one is not able to enter the fray and come out giving as good as he got...it means he may not be leadership material and will not get the support of the public. Thats actually how its supposed to work.
Sending service guys as proxies to explain to brick and mortar dealers how to embrace the new order as proposed by MACs out of reach higher ups is fishey from the get go. It suggests a lack of familiarity with the terrain in which they find themselves deployed and an insecurity in facing real dealers who are not already in the pocket.
Reluctance to answer, to engage and to communicate is generally a de facto admission of defeat ot a transparent tactic of "assuming the high road" and steering clear of ... what was the term? "bellowing herd".
Hey...on an impersonal online format, the bellowing herd should be easy to defeat intellectually and with great tact and purpose don't you think? Especially with Roberts Rules of Order agreed to and our good moderators in attendance.
Comon guys...what are ya afraid of?
Sincerely, Steve
MAC is involved here already.
Not much goes on that they don't read themselves directly or copy it over to Mt. Olympus.
As with anyone anywhere, you can contribute to this forum without an invitation, a drum roll or special rules for handling intellectually delicate people who may be offended by the very process of dialogue and debate our own presidential candidates go thru every day now.
Watch how they pile on each other...watch how they handle themselves. Like Dean or not...he does take it and dish it our in a rather unflappable way. But then again anyone proprosing to lead us has to be that way!
Thats what we call...er, leadership.
Now, if one is not able to enter the fray and come out giving as good as he got...it means he may not be leadership material and will not get the support of the public. Thats actually how its supposed to work.
Sending service guys as proxies to explain to brick and mortar dealers how to embrace the new order as proposed by MACs out of reach higher ups is fishey from the get go. It suggests a lack of familiarity with the terrain in which they find themselves deployed and an insecurity in facing real dealers who are not already in the pocket.
Reluctance to answer, to engage and to communicate is generally a de facto admission of defeat ot a transparent tactic of "assuming the high road" and steering clear of ... what was the term? "bellowing herd".
Hey...on an impersonal online format, the bellowing herd should be easy to defeat intellectually and with great tact and purpose don't you think? Especially with Roberts Rules of Order agreed to and our good moderators in attendance.
Comon guys...what are ya afraid of?
Sincerely, Steve
C'mon Steve - this is American Culture we're talking about here - so quantity beats out quality every time...;-) What if said person only answers one or two questions a day? Does that mean they are trying to be sneaky and only answer the easy ones? No - it might mean not enough time in the day...
So what should folks expect if there IS a MAC presence here? 2 hrs a day of them answering questions , 4 hrs? This is a serious question.
Cheers
James
So what should folks expect if there IS a MAC presence here? 2 hrs a day of them answering questions , 4 hrs? This is a serious question.
Cheers
James
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Well yes,
There is a 'quantity' of candidates will be winnowed out by the 'quality' ones within a few months. Thats what public discourse does.
If they're too busy to answer a few once in a while it must be a matter of small importance then.
Funny, at Conferences, Davd V. seems to have all day to answer questions and lobby for the MAC agenda.. In fact, thats his job. In fact he has more time to spend on this than any of us and get paid to do it as well!
Too busy...? Doing what if not explaining and promoting this agenda?
This is what they do James. This is exactly what they do.
Its not as if there were any field work interruping the schedule!
Actually...since its still largely hypothetical stuff with only a tad bit of field work, largely the "Buhol pilot project"...there isn't much to promote thats real. Just more and more hypotheticals.
"Still in the infancy" we heard....six years now of infancy! Since the learning curve seems to parralel the human life span...does that mean we have to wait another 10 years for puberty to end before we get some maturity on this stuff?
Steve
Or is this drawn-out slow cooking drama a 'make work' program that gives years of security for its administrators? [Oops. Bingo!]
There is a 'quantity' of candidates will be winnowed out by the 'quality' ones within a few months. Thats what public discourse does.
If they're too busy to answer a few once in a while it must be a matter of small importance then.
Funny, at Conferences, Davd V. seems to have all day to answer questions and lobby for the MAC agenda.. In fact, thats his job. In fact he has more time to spend on this than any of us and get paid to do it as well!
Too busy...? Doing what if not explaining and promoting this agenda?
This is what they do James. This is exactly what they do.
Its not as if there were any field work interruping the schedule!
Actually...since its still largely hypothetical stuff with only a tad bit of field work, largely the "Buhol pilot project"...there isn't much to promote thats real. Just more and more hypotheticals.
"Still in the infancy" we heard....six years now of infancy! Since the learning curve seems to parralel the human life span...does that mean we have to wait another 10 years for puberty to end before we get some maturity on this stuff?
Steve
Or is this drawn-out slow cooking drama a 'make work' program that gives years of security for its administrators? [Oops. Bingo!]
Yes, that would be a great start! I know for a fact that many of the statements here are just opinions stated as facts - and we know what they say about opinions.
We are all busy- I know I never get down my to-do list by the end of the day - so we put in work where we know it's the most needed and will have the most effect.
In my opinion, MAC has decided that since they have limited resources, and given the current "tone" of this forum, it is a waste of time and energy to devote any work here. Given past history, if I were them, I'd feel the same way.
So how to change that? Rover's suggestion is a good start. Like I said in the first post, I have some suggestions of my own, but I'll withold them until more people have chimed in on this thread. So far it's been the same old 3 or 4 people as always.
Sincerely,
James
We are all busy- I know I never get down my to-do list by the end of the day - so we put in work where we know it's the most needed and will have the most effect.
In my opinion, MAC has decided that since they have limited resources, and given the current "tone" of this forum, it is a waste of time and energy to devote any work here. Given past history, if I were them, I'd feel the same way.
So how to change that? Rover's suggestion is a good start. Like I said in the first post, I have some suggestions of my own, but I'll withold them until more people have chimed in on this thread. So far it's been the same old 3 or 4 people as always.
Sincerely,
James
kalk,Glenn,
You're both right on this on. How often can anyone say that? 8O They need to be putting their resources to work on field issues and this is the place they need to put their PR efforts. AS far as bang for the buck, this is probably their best value in reaching the people who count.
You're both right on this on. How often can anyone say that? 8O They need to be putting their resources to work on field issues and this is the place they need to put their PR efforts. AS far as bang for the buck, this is probably their best value in reaching the people who count.
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
