Seacare says... : Cdn Importer's Comment abt CYANIDE CAUGHT.

[clarionreef]

Mary,
Heres a telling message.
I just got the current price list of my favorite certified importer in LA who gets from his favorite certified exporter in Manila. The list is full of Philippine fish from all over the Philippines of course but the name Philippine has been substituted by 'Indian ocean' on those species.
Now thats an insult to the intelligence of many as Indian Ocean endemics and Philippine endemics are pretty well known.
However...there are a few reference to Cebu...where the trickle of slimey
mac-aroons clowns and hollow belly mac-darins come from. There are also some skinny chel-macs from there...and some paper thin orbic mac-fish.
The other Philippine fish are hidden by the I.O. label.
Besides premeditated, calculated fibbin, it also shows a 'shame' for the exporters other offerings...which considerably outnumbers the mac four or five species.
I guess they figure know one would know these things and if they did, the good ol boys club would never reveal them.
Steve

 

[MaryHM]

You can change the "we" to "can it be assumed". The semantics aren't the topic. The topic is, does *** just not know that there is a cyanide problem in Indonesia? If that's true, what can we do to educate them and other's in the same "boat" so to speak.

 

[MaryHM]

Interesting, Steve. So you're saying that the major industry players know there's a cyanide problem and know what countries have a problem, but that they purposefully choose to hide it from their customers?? I wonder if this is the case with ***, or if they truly don't know that Indonesia has a cyanide problem. I mean, there's so much talk about the Philippines that maybe *** thinks that's the only country that has a problem. And if *** is buying from other LA wholesalers that are covering up the problem by saying the fish are "IO", then ***would be an unwilling participant in the cyanide trade. How does one go about fixing this problem??

 

[Anonymous]

I thought it had been well documented here that madarins were not collected with cyanide because of the slime coat that they produce?

 

[MaryHM]

Very true, Rover. However, that's not what we're talking about. *** clearly states that they "endeavor not to acquire fish, animals or live rock from areas where cyanide collection methods are used". That means that they don't want to get ANY animals from those areas. That means not acquiring the cyanide caught OR the hand caught, if the hand caughts come from an area where cyanide collection methods are used. So according to their own statement, *** should not be knowingly importing ANY animal from those two countries.

 

[MaryHM]

Forgot to add this:

I used the mandarins as an example because one only finds them coming from the Philippines, and to a lesser extent Indonesia. It was used a fish representative of a country- not representative of being hand caught.

 

[MaryHM]

Further backing up my claim that *** isn't even interested in hand caught fish from cyanide "hot spots" is that they name live rock in their statement. I don't know of any cyanide caught live rock, yet *** refuses to carry it if it comes from a cyanide using area.

 

[clarionreef]

Mary,
Our importer friends who wire out money every day to countries of origin are source verified experts.
Heres but a few ways they can tell;
a] Its where the plane comes from with their shipment...hint, the info is on the airway bill.
b] Its where your brokers paperwork says it is from.
c] Its where the US Fish and Wildlife service certifies it is from
d] Its where the importer wires the money to pay for it.
Importers know extremely well where all their fish come from.

This goes in the 'duh' category.
Steve

 

[dizzy]

This thread is beginning to look like another pecking party. It might be best for people to stay away, least a little blood gets splattered on them.

 

[Anonymous]

I think you are stretching the word "endeavor" a bit thin.

 

[MaryHM]

Again, very interesting information Steve! Thank you for your insight. So I guess the question here is- does *** directly import their animals or do they buy them from local LA wholesalers?? At this point, *** only has 2 defenses to their statement:
1. We didn't know about the cyanide problem in Indonesia. We only thought it was a Philippines problem.
2. We don't directly import our animals, so we are at the mercy of the LA wholesalers telling us where they are from.

 

[MaryHM]

en·deav·or ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-dvr)
n.
A conscientious or concerted effort toward an end; an earnest attempt.
Purposeful or industrious activity; enterprise.

v. en·deav·ored, en·deav·or·ing, en·deav·ors
v. tr.
To attempt (fulfillment of a responsibility or an obligation, for example) by employment or expenditure of effort: endeavored to improve the quality of life in the inner city.

v. intr.
To work with a set or specified goal or purpose.

How am I streching the word thin, Rover?

 

[dizzy]

2. We don't directly import our animals, so we are at the mercy of the LA wholesalers telling us where they are from.

Do they actually tank their animals or do they work a drop ship deal with one of the big boys? Might be a good way to wash their hands.

 

[MaryHM]

Unless endeavor has the following definitions:

Endeavor
1. An excellent ambiguous word to use to make people think you are trying to do something you really aren't.

2. An activity to only be participated in if it does not hurt the profitability of a company and the variety it is able to offer.

 

[MaryHM]

Do they actually tank their animals or do they work a drop ship deal with one of the big boys? Might be a good way to wash their hands.

I don't know. Excellent question, though. If they do only have a drop ship deal, then that would open an entirely new can of worms. Since they're an RDO sponsor, maybe James knows.

 

[MaryHM]

Guys, the point here is not to bash ***. The point I was trying to make is that if you find something questionable on a private companies website, that you can discuss it without naming names. I really think the situation with SeaCare could have been handled that way, as could my recent thoughts on ***. I hold them no ill will, as I'm sure Advantage holds SeaCare no ill will. However, since we know there are tons of lurkers here- many of whom only skim the threads- it's important not to get business names involved unless the owner of that business is ok with it. This thread made SeaCare look like they were lying about statistics. It has also made *** look like they are lying about collection areas. I doubt either is the case. Again, the point is that business names shouldn't be mentioned. This was a rule that I didn't put into force, but that James put into force. Seems like a good rule. Why that rule has changed because the moderator has changed is beyond me.

 

[Anonymous]

I take it to mean "We try really hard not to sell cyanide caught animals, since mandarin gobies are only found in one or two areas, and aren't caught with cyanide, we feel comfortable offering them to our customers, just like all of the net caught only wholesalers do." But that's just my opinion of course. You are welcome to yours, and if you disagree with their policies are perfectly free to never order from them. But until you have proof that they are purposefully trying to decieve people, I suggest you just stick to your opinions.

 

[MaryHM]

Wouldn't you say that your business endeavors to get fish from areas where cyanide collections is not used, as well.

No, I wouldn't say that at all. I prefer to get fish from net caught only suppliers in the Philippines when I can. When I can't, I don't. And I make that clear to my customers. I don't try to sell fish from questionable sources as fish from my net caught only sources. Also, please note that ** did not state "FISH"...they stated "ANIMALS".

So why the sudden lashing out at this other business today? Are you looking for a fight? That seems to go directly against the guidelines that everyone has been discussing these last weeks.

Why is me pulling something off of a companies website and questioning it called "lashing out" (note that I never accused them of anything and offered several possibilities of how they themselves could be deceived into thinking they were following their guidelines)-. I did the same exact thing to ** that Advantage did to SeaCare- he wasn't accused of lashing out or looking for a fight. I was looking to make a point.

I take it to mean "We try really hard not to sell cyanide caught animals, since mandarin gobies are only found in one or two areas, and aren't caught with cyanide, we feel comfortable offering them to our customers, just like all of the net caught only wholesalers do." But that's just my opinion of course. You are welcome to yours, and if you disagree with their policies are perfectly free to never order from them. But until you have proof that they are purposefully trying to decieve people, I suggest you just stick to your opinions.

Then how do you explain all of the Indonesian corals??? And please Rover, show me where I said they are purposefully trying to deceive people. SHOW IT TO ME. It's a short thread, so finding it shouldn't be too hard. I'll be here waiting.

 

[MaryHM]

James,

Are my eyes deceiving me, or did you just delete your post where you accused me of being hypocritical and lashing out at another business?

 

[MaryHM]

Did another refresh- nope, eyes are working fine. You deleted your post. James, if you don't have the conviction to stand behind what you write, don't post it at all. And if you do post it, leave it for the world to see- don't delete it. If you post something that you regret, apologize. Don't delete it. It's very difficult to follow threads where people are deleting things they have written after other people comment on them.