Going to Bali!

[Jaime Baquero]

This brief note to respond GreshamnH's question about Ferdie's and Robinson's plans. I consider this could be informative for the readers.

GreshamnH, Robinson's email said, I quote, " I roomed w/Ferdie for 5 days in Hawaii.

We are both going to Bali as MAC has ended the possibility of working w/EASI. I FOLLOW THE LOCALS FOR NOW..... FERDIES GOING TO BALI....as EASI concentrates on funding for independant training.

Ferdie is in Florida now and may chime in if you get too off base.

 

[Anonymous]

Well to me that says he and Ferdie are going to Bali to train, until EASI can pull together funding for an independant training in PI as all possiabilities of working out a deal with MAC for training in PI are gone. I see nothing wrong with that, they're not bailling, they're still working towards the same goal and will return to PI when something can happen. I'm glad they're converting and training while details get worked out for PI. Why not train in Bali whilen they can't do so in PI? I'm glad so many people in Bali are making the comittment to stop fishing with cyanide. The fishermen are stoked to have strong netting that was recently given to them. Now they don't have to spend so much time trying to keep .177mm mesquito netting in one piece. These fishermen are converting others as well. Steve recently trained a few when he was there in his techniques, now they're teaching others. The evidance of their schooling is in their current catch rates and post harvest survival rates. We got to see the before and after. When EASI gets the needed funding, this same methodology will be taken be to PI coupled with a more intense and involved training program.

 

[mkirda]

Jaime,

Ferdinand has been working with Ruwi for several years now, spending several months out of the year in Bali, AFAIK.

None of this is really news.
And it doesn't end his work with EASI either.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Jaime Baquero]

So why didn't Ferdinand provide good nets to the fisherfolks in Bali long ago? Why it took until last week when they happened to find the "good stuff" in Hawaii during MO. Ferdinand and Steve have accused MAC of doing trainings "without nets" looks like Ferdinand has spent several years in Bali working with fishers 'without nets"

 

[Anonymous]

GreshamnH, Robinson's email said, I quote, " I roomed w/Ferdie for 5 days in Hawaii.

We are both going to Bali as MAC has ended the possibility of working w/EASI. I FOLLOW THE LOCALS FOR NOW..... FERDIES GOING TO BALI....as EASI concentrates on funding for independant training.

Ferdie is in Florida now and may chime in if you get too off base.

Jaime,
Was that posted somewhere in the forum, or are you quoteing from a personal correspondence? If it's in the forum, please point me in that direction, been sitting here reading for a few hours now and can't find those quotes.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

GreshamnH, Robinson's email said, I quote, " I roomed w/Ferdie for 5 days in Hawaii.

We are both going to Bali as MAC has ended the possibility of working w/EASI. I FOLLOW THE LOCALS FOR NOW..... FERDIES GOING TO BALI....as EASI concentrates on funding for independant training.

Ferdie is in Florida now and may chime in if you get too off base.

Jaime,
Was that posted somewhere in the forum, or are you quoteing from a personal correspondence? If it's in the forum, please point me in that direction, been sitting here reading for a few hours now and can't find those quotes.

Sally, What difference it makes? I posted the message exactly as I got it. Including the capitals.

 

[Anonymous]

Jaime,
It makes all the difference in the world. My understanding is that if it posted on the forum, it's cool to quote. If it was from a personal corresondence, well, I'll just say it's not "ethical" without the others consent.

 

[Anonymous]

So why didn't Ferdinand provide good nets to the fisherfolks in Bali long ago? Why it took until last week when they happened to find the "good stuff" in Hawaii during MO. Ferdinand and Steve have accused MAC of doing trainings "without nets" looks like Ferdinand has spent several years in Bali working with fishers 'without nets"

why did america take so long to end WWII? 8O :?

 

[mkirda]

So why didn't Ferdinand provide good nets to the fisherfolks in Bali long ago? Why it took until last week when they happened to find the "good stuff" in Hawaii during MO. Ferdinand and Steve have accused MAC of doing trainings "without nets" looks like Ferdinand has spent several years in Bali working with fishers 'without nets"

Ok, second try after losing my reply...

Jaime,

Ferdinand brought a duffle full of hand netting I provided last year to Ruwi.
(He even asked my permission, worried that I wanted it only for the Philippines...) :lol:

Barrier netting is a different issue. Finding the 'mediocre stuff' locally isn't hard. Basically, it is 'good enough' for a while, but breaks down rather quickly. I met a number of fisherman's wives who tie their barrier netting by hand because of this- Monofilament is cheap, even if tying the knots by hand seems a colossal waste of time, IMO. They don't see it that way- They make netting that is superior to the 'mediocre stuff', so a couple of months of free time produces a net that lasts a couple of years.

The source of the 'good stuff' has been known for some time, Jaime.
The problem is buying it retail in US dollars from a shop in Hawaii makes it prohibitively expensive. It is much cheaper to get it direct from the source, but IIRC, the minimum run was USD14,000 from Taiwan. That dramatically lowers the per foot cost, but that hump was too difficult to get over.

Steve pointed out in an earlier post that the price in Hawaii had halved since the last time he had checked- This made the $850 go a lot further, even when buying retail in Hawaii.

Personally, I am torn between two sides- I'd rather the cash have gone to buy a wholesale run because it would have provided a lot more netting, however, I am also very happy that netting is now in the hands of the fishermen who need it. AMDA made the right decision, I think.
It would have taken a very long time to reach $14,000.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Jaime,
It makes all the difference in the world. My understanding is that if it posted on the forum, it's cool to quote. If it was from a personal corresondence, well, I'll just say it's not "ethical" without the others consent.

Sally,

I respect your point of view. I wouldn't post any of your PMs as I hadn't posted any of PMs posted by other readers. The Robinson case is different.
After all, I found it was something all readers should read, as Mike said none of this is really news. But this is for the hobbyists that would like to donate money for netting .

We have to keep in mind the latest statements by the "importing fish experts" who said that the Philippines is supplying the U.S. market with WAY MORE fish than Indonesia. And that the U.S. is getting "tiny amounts" of fish from Indonesia.

Knowing that the >% of the supply is coming from the Philippines wouldn't be better to concentrate efforts in the Philippines?

 

[mkirda]

Knowing that the >% of the supply is coming from the Philippines wouldn't be better to concentrate efforts in the Philippines?

Sure, Jaime. Does a couple of months out of the year in Indonesia negate the rest of the time spent in the Philippines?

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[hdtran]

Mike,

As I think about it, there's a couple of issues which may be off-topic.

$14K is a difficult amount to raise if you're an individual. If you're a professional fundraiser (don't call them that, call them "development professionals"), $14K is not nearly as hard to obtain. But development professionals are professionals, who earn a living by getting money. They constitute overhead on a non-profit. So, to get an effective $14K in the field, they must get, say, $21K (50% indirect, which is not bad). Think of the American Red Cross, or the United Way--some may consider them bloated NGO's, but they need full-time paid CEO's, administrators, accountants, etc.

Development professionals are somewhat control freaks. It's part of the job. (Like we are, with lighting and water chemistry). There is almost always tension between the development professional and the volunteer. There's a reason why development professionals are control freaks: Say, you're approaching Bill Gates: Do you sell Girl Scout cookies (individual volunteer), or do you convince him to donate a cookie factory (development professional)? The development professional wants to control, or at least, monitor, the relationship between individual and philanthropist.

Well, I've violated my own rule: Quoting Abraham Lincoln, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out, and remove all doubt."

Regards,

 

[MaryHM]

Wow Jaime. From someone who supposedly cares about the cyanide issue, you sure do come out of left field a lot.

Knowing that the >% of the supply is coming from the Philippines wouldn't be better to concentrate efforts in the Philippines?

I think I asked this before, but let me ask again just in case I didn't. WHAT IN THE WORLD DOES IT MATTER WHERE PEOPLE ARE TRAINING AND GIVING OUT NETS AS LONG AS THEY ARE STOPPING CYANIDE FISHING???? At this point I just think you have to have something to argue about. If attention was focused on the Philippines, you'd be griping that Indonesia is being ignored. GET OVER IT. Cyanide collectors are being converted with a strong training program and the right nets. That's all that matters. The country/region/village/house doesn't matter one bit. The cyanide trade is not going to be halted overnight. It takes baby steps. This was the major flaw of the big time NGO's- thinking they could swoop in and save the world all at once. Successful trainings and conversions in Indonesia will build the program up to the point where maybe EASI can get some grants and tackle the problem in the Philippines. As long as people are being converted Jaime, what is the problem????????????? Is it that you just must find fault in something or your life is meaningless? I'm really curious.

 

[Anonymous]

Jaime
Are you saying that stoping cyanide use in PI is more important than in Indo? Regardless of who exports the most fish, shouldn't both be worked on now?

When I send money to AMDA, I don't care if the nets go to Indo or PI, poor fishermen in both areas need nets. Those that are already trained (have already earned the nets) but lacking nets in either area are more in need than those that aren't yet trained. All will get the needed nets eventually anyway. If $85.USD buyes enough net material for 10 fishermen, then that's 10 more who won't use cyanide, end of story.

According to the DVD I got from Mike, there are roughly 4000 fishermen in PI, and probably only a handfull of them are net trained and fewer MAC certified. How many are in Indo?

You still haven't answered my original question and why would you change your ethics just because it was from Steve?

 

[naesco]

So why didn't Ferdinand provide good nets to the fisherfolks in Bali long ago? Why it took until last week when they happened to find the "good stuff" in Hawaii during MO. Ferdinand and Steve have accused MAC of doing trainings "without nets" looks like Ferdinand has spent several years in Bali working with fishers 'without nets"

why did america take so long to end WWII? 8O :?

The answer is history.

Because American only got involved in the war when it itself was attacked.

 

[naesco]

So why didn't Ferdinand provide good nets to the fisherfolks in Bali long ago? Why it took until last week when they happened to find the "good stuff" in Hawaii during MO. Ferdinand and Steve have accused MAC of doing trainings "without nets" looks like Ferdinand has spent several years in Bali working with fishers 'without nets"

why did america take so long to end WWII? 8O :?

The answer is history.

Because America only got involved in the war when it itself was attacked.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Knowing that the >% of the supply is coming from the Philippines wouldn't be better to concentrate efforts in the Philippines?

Sure, Jaime. Does a couple of months out of the year in Indonesia negate the rest of the time spent in the Philippines?

Regards.
Mike Kirda

Mike, how do you know that is a couple of months?

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, it was a PM from Steve, doens't matter, its not a "smoking gun" and not the first time Jaime has posted others private messages. How cares?

When netting was bought, Bali got some. The training Ferdie did in Bali wasn't done thru any groups, I think he funded it himself, privately. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not. Hopefully Ferdie will be able to get to a computer and reply himself.

Indo exports a ton of fish Jaime, just not the same amount of PI. They are in fact, in the top 3 MO exporters, if not top 2.

I can't believe your still trying to discreddit net training that has stuck. The people in Bali who made the committment would be so saddenned by you lessoning their achievement. The have purcivered thru many hardships to get to where they are now. They have put up with major attempts by the dirty exporters trying to shut them down. They're divers have been offerred cash to sell their catch on the beach to the dirty exporters, bypassing the co-op. The leader, Ruwi, has had his life threatend and been bribed more then I care to shake a stick at. He and them are true believers in the anti cyanide movement. For you to belittle they're achievement only puts your own convictions into question.

 

[Anonymous]

Mike, how do you know that is a couple of months?
_________________
Regards

Jaime

Back to the conspiracy theorys again Jaime? Just a few days ago you were sing praises of Ferdie, but now your back to your old self. Who cares where Ferdie spends his time, he's tackling a vast problem. What are your CURRENTLY doing to help, other then trying to discreddit the very people who are currently doing something?

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Wow Jaime. From someone who supposedly cares about the cyanide issue, you sure do come out of left field a lot.

Knowing that the >% of the supply is coming from the Philippines wouldn't be better to concentrate efforts in the Philippines?

I think I asked this before, but let me ask again just in case I didn't. WHAT IN THE WORLD DOES IT MATTER WHERE PEOPLE ARE TRAINING AND GIVING OUT NETS AS LONG AS THEY ARE STOPPING CYANIDE FISHING???? At this point I just think you have to have something to argue about. If attention was focused on the Philippines, you'd be griping that Indonesia is being ignored. GET OVER IT. Cyanide collectors are being converted with a strong training program and the right nets. That's all that matters. The country/region/village/house doesn't matter one bit. The cyanide trade is not going to be halted overnight. It takes baby steps. This was the major flaw of the big time NGO's- thinking they could swoop in and save the world all at once. Successful trainings and conversions in Indonesia will build the program up to the point where maybe EASI can get some grants and tackle the problem in the Philippines. As long as people are being converted Jaime, what is the problem????????????? Is it that you just must find fault in something or your life is meaningless? I'm really curious.

The problem is that exactly the same words were said as part of your " "work plan for the Philippines" . You did something good providing nets and some t shirts to the collectors, Sincerely, I hope the nets were the "good stuff" the boys found last week in Hawai. What about the false hope you guys were giving to collectors in the Philippines telling them things you can not deliver or that will take forever to get there

My life is very active and have many projects in front of me. I enjoy every single minute of it. You have found fault in every single thing MAC is trying to do. What about your life is meaningless?