So , tell me Whats to prevent long boats from chipping the fish when they get back to a certain certified area? How exactly do you chip a dart fish? or green chromis? But more important then the fact that the people suggesting these silly notions are loons ........What fish of the top twenty imported species has ever been found to be unsustainable in the region? Yes, there are a few degraded areas that any fish collection would strain the comeback of fish stocks in those areas ... But who says fish collectors fish in the areas where the fish are few? Can someone please name a species of fish that is unsustainable in more then a few locations .......that this hobby currently has a demand for in volume? (Other then blue tangs}
Kalkbreath":3405smkk said:
loon?
even a dodo could see that i wasn't suggesting it be done,
:wink: i was suggesting it's the only way for true traceability to get accomplished (sarcastic banter allowance, please!!)all that needs to be done to make the entire issue irrelevant is enforcement af the anti cyanide LAWS (hear that word, wayne?) that are ALREADY in place
kalk-to answer your q
why do m.o. fish keep getting smaller every year ?
don't say it's purposeful selection to save on shipping space
Because the real reeform has been taking place on its own without any help from the reeformers. :" Reef tanks " Its not that the total number of Items being place into reef tanks has decreased. Its that there are far less fish going in and alot more inverts and coral.
Again its those wonderful reef tanks.... Large angles dont seem to do well in nano cubes and people are smart enough to not even dream of it {well most} The top twenty fish imported today are almost all good reef tank selections, plentiful and easy to collect even in PI . Its also a situation of economics. You can fit 100 plus tiny fish in a box to be exported. The landed price of these fish is divided by 100. With one or two large fish , you have all the eggs in one basket. Plus, add to this the reality that its tough to even get double mark up on lage fish when you go to sell them {both retail and wholesale} The markup on those 100 tiny fish is five times or so. The problems the industry faced ten years ago have almost completely fixed themselves. Even the reefs have made incredible recoveries. But like you dont already know all of this?
No , But part of the reality is that adult fish in heavy used collection areas avoid the divers ....... Kinda like a reef fish knows to run for it when the see a shark or a dolphin. fish in PI dont swim up to divers like they do in the Bahamas. The fish darting into the reef structure is the whole reason cyanide fishing was invented. Adult fish in PI got that way by avoiding capture ......The same reason 95 % of baby fish die or are eaten their first year is that they are new to the realities of the reef .
Let me sea .......next your going to try to explain that all these baby fish currently being collected have no momy and daddy becuase every single adult fish was removed years ago ? There is a reason why baby clown triggers still show up by the tens of thousands each spring . Its called plenty of adult Triggers doing the funky horny dance in the shadows away from the divers............... :wink:
The Solomon Islands ships tiny fish........its not beause their reefs are out of adult fish . So does Shri lanka . The increased cost of freight combined with weak demand for non reef tank sized fish has completely changed the collection demands worldwide {"and we aint turning back " as W would say}.......Or are you suggesting that these fish from PI are small because there are currently so few fish from MO over collection, that the natives are forced to divide the few fish they do collect into fragments ? :wink:
Because its more complex then that......Do you disagree that fish in PI react to seeing divers and flee , making fish collection far more difficult ? 2.] Do you agree that the supply of young fish seems to have not decreased much and that means that there ARE plenty adult fish breeding some where in the Phillippines? 3.] That few importers are asking for lager fish . And that if larger fish were in demand, that places like Palau would be shipping more of their ubundant supply of large fish ? 4.] that I can make five times more profit selling a box of small 100 to a box fish .......then I can selling one or two larger fish ? Small majestic/Blue face angles sell like hot cakes ........while show sized angles fish do not.
Kalkbreath":3ob1xpwn said:
:lol:
one of the first signs of a declining population of any animal species due to overharvesting is the proportionately lower number of large adults available
why do you think catch size limits are used for crab/lobster, etc. ? it's to try and ensure that more individuals reach larger sizes for population restoration, post adult overharvesting
i've never been able to bring in large angels/triggers/tusks in fast enough for the buying public, even at the higher prices they've always commanded, in fact, in most stores i've worked in, there was even a waiting list for the larger fish species
the only 'block' for me at the retail end was the higher shipping costs, which were recouped anyway at point of sale, or by splitting the box between one large fish, and some smaller sized individuals
the contention that reef tanks have diminished the demand for larger fish is ludicrous, imo
ime- there are at least 3-4 fo tank setups to every reef one in 'hobbyists' tanks-the initial outlay needed alone makes them more popular due to the cheaper cost of the setup (no fancy lighting, etc)
how many customers actually state a preference for 1" hippos as opposed to 3" hippos, given a choice?
ime, the 3"+ beat out the teeny ones every time- customers usually look at it as getting more fish for the buck :wink:
Kalkbreath":36dn8jja said:
You just don't pull up to an exporter with a Jeepney full of fish and say "Here's your fish, and they're MAC Certified."
There is a traceable paper trail. MAC Certified species come from MAC Certified Collecting areas caught by MAC Certified Collectors and are then sold to MAC Certified Exporters. Documentation is carried and updated at each link in the chain of custody. Species batches are identified by code and number and may be traceable as far as to actual fisher.
John_Brandt":5ud5k6xg said:
am i to understand that each diver has his own boat, or holding container in a boat, so catch isn't mixed at all, or that each diver has their own tags/plastic holding containers w/a serial # unique to each diver ?
and am i also to understand that when the boats/jeepneys arrive at the first 'collection stations', that each divers catch is kept seperate from all the others up to the time of arrival at the exporters ?
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Guys,
You do relize that this plan still isn't happening.
It is spoken of in theory as if its actually something that was already implemented.
There are hundreds of villages and it would only take a few to white- wash the trade as the few will be purported to be whats in the certified dealers tanks. This few 'covering' for the greater amount of illegal product is the clinical definition of whitewash.
The FACILITY certifications will get misunderstood with the FISH certifications w/ 98% of the interested public and funders.
The nominal results will be trumpeted as a success and a thing worth futher funding.
Steve
PS. So, will Buhol divers, [ the meekest and most polite in the nation] return to the fold?
Before prescibing for the nation, I think the certified guys who went off the reservation need to be made happy first.
You do relize that this plan still isn't happening.
It is spoken of in theory as if its actually something that was already implemented.
There are hundreds of villages and it would only take a few to white- wash the trade as the few will be purported to be whats in the certified dealers tanks. This few 'covering' for the greater amount of illegal product is the clinical definition of whitewash.
The FACILITY certifications will get misunderstood with the FISH certifications w/ 98% of the interested public and funders.
The nominal results will be trumpeted as a success and a thing worth futher funding.
Steve
PS. So, will Buhol divers, [ the meekest and most polite in the nation] return to the fold?
Before prescibing for the nation, I think the certified guys who went off the reservation need to be made happy first.
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
