Aquarium Reform

[John_Brandt]

The ultimate plan is to administer the CDT in the country of export where the fish traceability is all the way to fisher.

 

[MaryHM]

John,

Is what Steve is saying true? Have divers left MAC?

 

[John_Brandt]

The MAC Certified divers at the 2 areas in Bohol continue to collect MAC Certified fish. They are being offered higher prices by exporters who are not certified, so they leave the Philippines as non-MAC Certified. These fishers still remain the same MAC Certified fishers. I don't know the total number of fishers there previous and now to say if any left or quit or whatever.

 

[MaryHM]

Could you please ask MAC and see if divers are leaving the program, and if so why?

 

[John_Brandt]

I believe productivity at the 2 sites combined is about 1250 fish per week.

 

[clarionreef]

Ahem,
As soon as a real dealer enters the zone and wants the fish...he'll get the fish away from the non aquarium folks.
You have to actually know the business from the inside and know the divers better then a brief dalliance allows.
The CEBU exporter took them away from us thru a pittance more and ships em to Oz and to China.
Even w/ Monica the staffer in the collection area and even w/ Linos marvelous powers of persuasion, they still left.
My own shipper has been left in the cold as well and we simply have to rely on netcaught divers trained prior to the emergence of MAC. They were trained right and have remained steady for 20 years!
Steve
PS To all outsiders;
If you promise poor divers something you cannot deliver...you better deliver. It is better not to promise beyond ones capacity to deliver.
In this case, even MACs vice president Lolita Ty wouldn't go for it and she let the divers go rather then meet the few extra pesos it would've taken her to keep them.
I guess the MBA calculating all the grand rewards into the 5 year plan wasn't ment for the divers.
And...don't even raise up the debacle of losing the whole communiuty of Cagayancillo.
Told ya all that dog don't hunt.

 

[MaryHM]

And...don't even raise up the debacle of losing the whole communiuty of Cagayancillo.

I'd like to raise it, as I haven't heard of this. Insight, please- from either John or Steve.

 

[Kalkbreath]

e]

:lol:


one of the first signs of a declining population of any animal species due to overharvesting is the proportionately lower number of large adults available

But there really is not a decline in population, there is still an abundance of small fish

why do you think catch size limits are used for crab/lobster, etc. ? it's to try and ensure that more individuals reach larger sizes for population restoration, post adult overharvesting

Actually most fish size limits are the direct oposite ........its the small fish that are no takers........like groupers in Florida,

i've never been able to bring in large angels/triggers/tusks in fast enough for the buying public, even at the higher prices they've always commanded, in fact, in most stores i've worked in, there was even a waiting list for the larger fish species

the only 'block' for me at the retail end was the higher shipping costs, which were recouped anyway at point of sale, or by splitting the box between one large fish, and some smaller sized individuals

Then you need to buy fish from me ......Palau , Vietnam and Vanuatu have plenty of large fish yet very little demand for them

the contention that reef tanks have diminished the demand for larger fish is ludicrous, imo

ime- there are at least 3-4 fo tank setups to every reef one in 'hobbyists' tanks-the initial outlay needed alone makes them more popular due to the cheaper cost of the setup (no fancy lighting, etc)


how many customers actually state a preference for 1" hippos as opposed to 3" hippos, given a choice?

Well three inch hippos are still great for most reef tanks........how bout six inch hippo sale over 3 inch hippos? I sold out of forty 3 inchers and still have all but one of the six inchers unsold? Tell me why few of the top twenty inported species are big fish only type species?

If what was limiting the imports of larger fish was lack of fish on the reefs .......places like HAwaii would be shipping more then they do.....

 

[clarionreef]

I'll be fair.
I have some netcaught fish ..[ not certified, just lowly netcaught and bonafide] to take to the airport now...you can tell her John.
Steve

 

[John_Brandt]

And...don't even raise up the debacle of losing the whole communiuty of Cagayancillo.

Which is a false rumor perpetuated by you.

The MAC Certified fishers are acting entrepreneurial. They are selling their fish to the highest bidder. These are high-quality fish when they are delivered to Cebu. It's unfortunate that they don't stay in the certified chain of custody. But at least you can take solace that the collection is done without cyanide.

 

[MaryHM]

The MAC Certified fishers are acting entrepreneurial. They are selling their fish to the highest bidder. These are high-quality fish when they are delivered to Cebu. It's unfortunate that they don't stay in the certified chain of custody. But at least you can take solace that the collection is done without cyanide.

Wait a second, shouldn't the MAC certified exporters be paying a higher price? Wasn't that part of MAC's mantra- that the divers would be getting paid more for MAC fish (obviously from the exporter)? Are you saying that Lolita Ty, who is the MAC Board Vice Chair, head of the export association, and MAC certified exporter- isn't willing to pay top dollar to get these fish and keep them in the MAC chain? That seems kind of odd to me. It's already well known that there are hardly any MAC fish at all available. You'd think the MAC certified dealers would be desparate to get whatever they could. John, what do you think the reason is as to why exporters that aren't MAC certified are willing to pay a higher price than exporters who are certified?

 

[John_Brandt]

Mary, the species collected at Bohol are available closer to Manila at less cost. The MAC Certified exporters do offer higher prices to the certified fishermen, yet these other exporters in Cebu offer even more at a point 600 miles from Manila. MAC can't force commerce through any particular chain. It only tries to set up a traceable certified trade route and hope that the animals will flow through it.

 

[MaryHM]

If someone is willing to pay a higher price for the fish, that means that they are marketable at that price. Makes you wonder why the MAC certified exporters don't think the fish are marketable at the higher price their uncertified competition is willing to pay. Maybe the MAC certified importers or retailers are not willing to pay a higher price. If anyone was going to pay a higher price and set the example, you'd think it would be Lolita Ty- who I mentioned is on the MAC Board and is head of the export association.

 

[Anonymous]

kalk wrote:

vitz wrote:

why do you think catch size limits are used for crab/lobster, etc. ? it's to try and ensure that more individuals reach larger sizes for population restoration, post adult overharvesting

Actually most fish size limits are the direct oposite ........its the small fish that are no takers........like groupers in Florida,

you do realize that what you said here is the same, and not the opposite of what i said, yes ?

Tell me why few of the top twenty inported species are big fish only type species?

simple, because they're counted by number of individuals-there will always be more chromi and clowns imported, on a number of individual fish basis

that says NOTHING about 'popularity'

i've sold out of larger fish every single time, and more quickly than chromises/damsels/clowns

No , But part of the reality is that adult fish in heavy used collection areas avoid the divers ....... Kinda like a reef fish knows to run for it when the see a shark or a dolphin. fish in PI dont swim up to divers like they do in the Bahamas. The fish darting into the reef structure is the whole reason cyanide fishing was invented. Adult fish in PI got that way by avoiding capture ......The same reason 95 % of baby fish die or are eaten their first year is that they are new to the realities of the reef .

that is just pure misinformation

a juvenile fish will be the one more likely to hide from ANYTHING larger than itself-it's a basic survival strategy/instinct-adults are far more inquisitive and confident

where DO you get your animal behavior info from? :lol:

Do you agree that the supply of young fish seems to have not decreased much and that means that there ARE plenty adult fish breeding some where in the Phillippines?

no, i don't agree at all

That few importers are asking for lager fish . And that if larger fish were in demand, that places like Palau would be shipping more of their ubundant supply of large fish

funny, - large angels, etc are still on lists, but they seem to be snapped up by cherry pickers/other retailers more quickly, preventing availability to east coasters

 

[MaryHM]

From someone who sees the export lists weekly, I must say that I see very, very few large angels, etc.. on the lists. Most of the large fish we get come from the Solomon Islands (and not because we order them that way!). Large fish sit, sit, and sit here. I've had some 12" Niger Triggers for a month. If we're lucky, we sell one a week.

 

[naesco]

From someone who sees the export lists weekly, I must say that I see very, very few large angels, etc.. on the lists. Most of the large fish we get come from the Solomon Islands (and not because we order them that way!). Large fish sit, sit, and sit here. I've had some 12" Niger Triggers for a month. If we're lucky, we sell one a week.

So it begs the question. Why do you order such large Nigers?

 

[MaryHM]

Which begs the question, why can't you ever comprehend a single post I type, even though it is so clear and obvious that a monkey could understand it?

From someone who sees the export lists weekly, I must say that I see very, very few large angels, etc.. on the lists. Most of the large fish we get come from the Solomon Islands (and not because we order them that way!). Large fish sit, sit, and sit here. I've had some 12" Niger Triggers for a month. If we're lucky, we sell one a week.

 

[naesco]

Which begs the question, why can't you ever comprehend a single post I type, even though it is so clear and obvious that a monkey could understand it?

From someone who sees the export lists weekly, I must say that I see very, very few large angels, etc.. on the lists. Most of the large fish we get come from the Solomon Islands (and not because we order them that way!). Large fish sit, sit, and sit here. I've had some 12" Niger Triggers for a month. If we're lucky, we sell one a week.

Are you saying that mature breeding fish are being substitued without your permission for small niger triggers? Are they used as filler?

How common is this practice?

 

[MaryHM]

Are you saying that mature breeding fish are being substitued without your permission for small niger triggers? Are they used as filler?

How common is this practice?

Oy. You are too hilarious. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wayne's thought bubble>: OOO! OOO! Something else ridiculous I can totally take out of context and start an internet typing movement about!!! Order of Canada, here I come!!!

 

[naesco]

I don't think it is funny at all.

Answer the question, please