A message from John Tullock

[MaryHM]

PS. John B., If you can't get your own home town favorite in Chicago, Living Sea to go again...where else do you go to try and convince people to just sign on...pay up and 'trust me'.

John, is this true? Is Living Seas not planning on staying certified?

 

[naesco]

Pointing out the FACT that he hasn't been involved in this industry for a few years (speaking, writing, etc...) and pointing out the FACT that you seem to think people are going to rally around him to stop cyanide and informing you how silly that is is not disrespectful to John in the least.

Honestly, I don't know much about John. What great things did he do for the hobby?

John Tullock was one ofthe leaders of the reeform movement. He authored a number of books in our hobby. I am a little surprised you didn't know that.

He became frustrated with the lack of reform but instead of joining the other side, he left the hobby and the industry. I respect him for that.

He left a legacy that commands the respect of every reeformer and every hobbyist.

I am sure the government wants to know why a man of his statute would want to close the industry down. I bet he will be one of the key witnesses at the hearings. He is going to tell the truth.

I couldn't put it better than a reform minded industry PM I received.
""John Tullock is someone who really knew and knows all the dirty secrets of this trade. I guess he didn't want to keep making money by "destroying" the coral reefs in developing countries. It is a matter of ethics and morals. ""

 

[Anonymous]

I couldn't put it better than a reform minded industry PM I received.

If you PM yourself it doesn't count, Wayne.

Peace,

Chip

 

[naesco]

PM myself!
:lol: :lol: Have you read any of Tullock's books Chip?
Fenner's or Scott Michael's recent book?

 

[Anonymous]

PM myself!
:lol: :lol: Have you read any of Tullock's books Chip?
Fenner's or Scott Michael's recent book?

Yes, yes, and yes. Why?

Peace,

Chip

 

[naesco]

PM myself!
:lol: :lol: Have you read any of Tullock's books Chip?
Fenner's or Scott Michael's recent book?

Yes, yes, and yes. Why?

Peace,

Chip

Then I think you would have an appreciation of the contribution they have made to the hobby and understand why they deserve our respect. right?

 

[Anonymous]

PM myself!
:lol: :lol: Have you read any of Tullock's books Chip?
Fenner's or Scott Michael's recent book?

Yes, yes, and yes. Why?

Peace,

Chip

Then I think you would have an appreciation of the contribution they have made to the hobby and understand why they deserve our respect. right?

so what's yer point ?

tullock still presently is not involved w/industry, nor is he an industry leader, any more than dr. axelrod is .

i would venture to say that scott michael is also not really connected with the industry side, per se, as an author, as accomplished as he also is


what does their lack of being connected w/industry have to do w/ 'respect' ? :roll:

 

[naesco]

A true mark of a leader is someone with the vision and courage to call a spade a spade. Tullock is that person and whether he is into orchids now is irrelavent.
Reformers respect his work his dedication and his knowledge.
Only losers would challenge this.

I am happy to see that every day more and more industry types acknowledge that the BILL and its enactment is a reality.
Those that do and take the necessary steps will get through the next few tough but absolutly necessary years of change in industry and our hobby.

It would be interesting the hear from those in the wholesale/import business (other than Mary) and from the Philippine exporters.

 

[naesco]

Non Philippine and Indonesian wholesalers, exports and importers should double their efforts as the demand will be huge.

By preparing now they can take advantage of higher sales and higher profits that will come with the closure of the Philippines and Indonesia.

 

[Anonymous]

A true mark of a leader is someone with the vision and courage to call a spade a spade. Tullock is that person and whether he is into orchids now is irrelavent.
Reformers respect his work his dedication and his knowledge.
Only losers would challenge this.

I am happy to see that every day more and more industry types acknowledge that the BILL and its enactment is a reality.
Those that do and take the necessary steps will get through the next few tough but absolutly necessary years of change in industry and our hobby.

It would be interesting the hear from those in the wholesale/import business (other than Mary) and from the Philippine exporters.

er, no one here challenged tullocks knowledge or vision

you simply do not comprehend, or refuse to comprehend, what people write here in their posts

er, - who have you seen here acknowledge that the bill will be enacted as a reality other than yourself ? :lol:

 

[naesco]

You need to be fair, Vitz.
It is not fair that you only read my posts.
Find the answers to your questions. Read the post of others

 

[Anonymous]

questions? what questions ? :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

If we closed all importation, cyanide for food fish and the aquaria trade in other countries would still be going strong. As things are now, attempts can be made to ensure sustainability. If they haven't worked that's no reason to give up. But if imports are banned it will drop off the screen as an object of interest for americans. Basically you would be throwing away your vote!

 

[dizzy]

Non Philippine and Indonesian wholesalers, exports and importers should double their efforts as the demand will be huge.

By preparing now they can take advantage of higher sales and higher profits that will come with the closure of the Philippines and Indonesia.

This is ridiculous. The burden of sustainability will apply to all countries including US waters. I can't think of a single place where increased harvest of ornamentals will be the end result of hr4928.
Mitch

 

[naesco]

Non Philippine and Indonesian wholesalers, exports and importers should double their efforts as the demand will be huge.

By preparing now they can take advantage of higher sales and higher profits that will come with the closure of the Philippines and Indonesia.

This is ridiculous. The burden of sustainability will apply to all countries including US waters. I can't think of a single place where increased harvest of ornamentals will be the end result of hr4928.
Mitch

Mitch your are correct in your statement.
I was referring to from right now to the implementation of the BILL.
IMO wise buyers will be contacting non PI suppliers now in preparation for the BILL. By the time the naysayers look outside of PI there will be nothing for them to buy.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Non Philippine and Indonesian wholesalers, exports and importers should double their efforts as the demand will be huge.

By preparing now they can take advantage of higher sales and higher profits that will come with the closure of the Philippines and Indonesia.

This is ridiculous. The burden of sustainability will apply to all countries including US waters. I can't think of a single place where increased harvest of ornamentals will be the end result of hr4928.
Mitch

You dont feel that if PI cant ship due to sustainability issues involvig the house bill .......that countries like Fiji , Tonga etc wont pick up the slack by exporting 50% more fish?

 

[dizzy]

Sustainability has to be based on a scientifically proven management plan. No place is even close to doing that.
Educated guesses are that it could take 10-years to prove sustainability, if conditions remained the same. If they were changing it might be impossible to prove. Increasing populations bring new challenges.
Mitch

 

[Fish_dave]

How are we going to PROVE sustainability with the trade shut off. I see a lot of calling for a ban untill sustainability can be proven. How can you prove the sustainability of a fishery without the harvesting taking place. You could have theories of sustainability but no proof without the actual harvest.

There have been many studies done showing that ornamentals collection is sustainable with simple management plans. Fiji has been stamped as sustainable by university studies and also by the MAC. Tonga has had several studies and the trade was deemed to be sustainable under the Tongan fisheries management plan. The issue here is not sustainable collecting but is habitat conservation. Ornamentals collection has already shown to be sustainable with very basic management plans. What throws a wrench in it is the loss of habitat. Keep the habitat and it is sustainable, lose the habitat and fishing is no longer sustainable. However if the habitat is gone then banning the collection will not bring back the fish numbers. Most of us are barking up the wrong tree, the issue is not the harvest of the fish it is the habitat preservation.

Dave

 

[Anonymous]

please take note at Dave's comment:

the issue is not the harvest of the fish it is the habitat preservation.

Seems to me Steve has been saying this all along, nice to here from yet another comemercial entity. Right on Dave!

 

[naesco]

please take note at Dave's comment:

the issue is not the harvest of the fish it is the habitat preservation.

Seems to me Steve has been saying this all along, nice to here from yet another comemercial entity. Right on Dave!

So when we ban the import of fish from the Philippines and Indonesia where the use of cyanide is rampant, the industry will be forced to reeform and abandon cyanide.
That in turn will slowly brings the reefs to the point where they will once again teem with life which in turn we can all benefit from.

We must begin at the beginning. The ban than reeform than revitalized reef.
It is a simple as that.