Steve/Gresham - Tropical Paradise in Tonga

[JT]

Steve and/or Gresham:

What do you know about Tropical Paradises collecting trip to Tonga? I am a bit bothered by some of the things I am reading and seeing on their Reef Central post and on Brian's personal website.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=438006

 

[Kalkbreath]

Rick's on his way to Vanuatu {new Clams}........Lavenia is most likely eating fried chicken {several} and Dave is busy overseeing the construction of wooden live rock box {building} hoping the cardboard/ shipping boxes will finally arrive this week. Seems Walts the only one with enough free time to escort the tourists and their hammers?

 

[Anonymous]

Kalk, that post made no sense to me. Care to explain?

Also, thos are some hellabig clams in that RC thread!

Peace,

Chip

 

[clarionreef]

And so JT...
What was it that disturbed you?
Steve

 

[JT]

Again, Steve cannot answer direct questions.

Firstly, they are collecting too close to shore in violation of the King of Tongas decree. In Tonga, you are not supposed to collect from inner reef areas near the shoreline.

Secondly, this looks like nothing more than a personal collecting trip driven by greed. I am totally against this and it happens more often than we hear about by those with money and power. It happened just recently in Fiji.

 

[Discotoo]

Lavenia is most likely eating fried chicken {several}

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[clarionreef]

Huh?
What color is the white horse you're on now?
They are in wide open view of anyone and collecting has always taken place nearshore where all the reef stuff tends to be.
The Kings reefs?
My wife says they're for the Tongan people [ shes Tongan ] to try and make a living while the King squanders AID money and wastes it on everything NOT related to public welfare.
The coral trade comes to us by virtue of bogus surveys, A corrupt Indonesian CITES PROCESS and container loads of crowbars distributed thru out the Asian Pacific theater.
Industrial processing of coral to the beat of a thousand crowbars a day is cool yet these two guys from the Bay area were sent out to teach better handling and packing to a Tongan exporter [ who brought them in specifically for that purpose]
is not?
Cool it and don't ask me direct questions about things you don't really want to hear.
You really don't want to force more dirt on this industry then it already has, believe me... and exposing the 95% of the coral trade that hides beneath the surface is best left to others.
I have exposed enough and someone else needs to assist more often.
Ask Eric Bornemman more about the coral trade in Indo if you want more truth...but seriously...Reefies do not want to hear it.
Expose more here more often? Really?
I get the distinct impression that people cannot handle that which has already been brought to their attention.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Again, Steve cannot answer direct questions.

Firstly, they are collecting too close to shore in violation of the King of Tongas decree. In Tonga, you are not supposed to collect from inner reef areas near the shoreline.

Like I asked for on RC - any documentation to back this up? Why should we believe you?

Secondly, this looks like nothing more than a personal collecting trip driven by greed. I am totally against this and it happens more often than we hear about by those with money and power. It happened just recently in Fiji.

:roll: So quick to condemn without all the facts.

 

[JT]

Steve, dude.. you are losing it my friend.

Whatever.

 

[Anonymous]

Steve, dude.. you are losing it my friend.

Whatever.

Well that make me trust your opinion even more. :roll:

 

[clarionreef]

Why thanks Inkster,
My point was that its easier to pick on a pot head then a heroin smuggling ring.
The pot is token and easy and safe to malign and the real story about real drugs is hidden, corrupt and dangerous...That one takes 1000 X more courage to expose.
Imagine a live feed and digital photo stream of crowbar, wild coral collecting as practiced in Indo.
Our consultants out there now are actually teaching better methodology and with a 'retailers sensitivity' to coral care at that.
Not the industrial workers mentality that normally mines the coral for the industry.
I only wish we could have more witnesses in the field to see the truth of more and more things... Especially collecting and training.
Steve

 

[Discotoo]

Why thanks Inkster,
My point was that its easier to pick on a pot head then a heroin smuggling ring.

No better way of putting it :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

But I would imagine that if a "heroin smuggling ring" were posting pics, we'd jump on them as well.

 

[JT]

So Steve, please answer my question.

It is clear that Gresham knows these folks from Tropical Paradise. Do you know them as well and do you support what they are doing?

 

[clarionreef]

Pardon me Senator.
What was the question again?
Do I know... or have I ever known the figures in question or ever been a member of the nefarious asssociations known in my own region ie. the Bay Area reef community?
I must refuse to answer that on the grounds that it may reveal a familiarity with a large retail shop in my region and that would be...that would indicate...understanding the terrain in which I find my establishment in operation.
Oh my God... I must delete...delete...it may behoove me to take the fifth.
But futhermore allow me to add that if I know them or have known them...I am not or was not privy to their travel plans until hearing some gossip about it and then reading it here on the net.
I was not a party to any insinuation that I am unaware of nor plan to be. If I am made aware of something like suggested shenannigans alluded to by the original question...then I must admit that I am jealous that they are cavorting in the sea right now and I'm not!
I hope that this has clarified that which was unclear and that futher allegations that Eddie is a friend of mine had best be tendered to...er...
my next aquaintence of whom I have not yet met.
If I do, you will be the first to know...as I will report it here.
Now...the real story is the one immediately next to this.
Steve
!

Steve

 

[Len]

Three things we call all do without:
1) asking questions in an accustory manner
2) sarcasm
3) hostility (ie, biting, abrasive remarks)

 

[clarionreef]

Sorry Len,
I will try to answer all future accusatory questions in a more respectful and straightforward manner.
Futhermore...to allow oneself to be goaded into a response befitting the question is clearly out of line...?

Steve
PS.
Hey...as a communications major from San Jose State University I am sometimes technically unclear where the line between wry wit, acceptable irreverance and 'sarcasm' is.
I mean, on the Daily Show they must cross this line every other sentence!
You know...where he 'sarcastically' said that the US war on terrorism has prevented the invasion in broad daylight on a major airliner
of a declared passenger ...Cat Stevens...the guy who wrote "Peace Train".
To some, that made a fool of the House Committee on UnAmerican Activities...I mean Homeland Security....sarcastically... instead of directly in anger.

 

[Len]

The line varies in context of situation. I find sarcasm is a poor tool in serious discussion and should be avoided. Obviously, the Daily Show is not about serious discussion.

Wit, in moderation, is a good thing IMO. It's a whole other story when done in excess (like with most things in life). I usually find people who primarily rely on witty responses really don't have much to say.

 

[bookfish]

The whole issue has been cleared up on RC. The owner of the collecting station has chimed in and let us know that all collecting was legal and all shipments were inspected.-Jim

 

[Anonymous]

Here is what he said:

This is Christian posting from Eddies Log In. I am the owner and operator of the collecting station that Eddie has visited over the past week. We had Ministry of Fisheries representatives at our warehouse this week inspecting our outgoing shipments and products collected. This is routine practice by the ministry of fisheries to ensure legal and reef safe practices. Representatives from the Ministry of Fisheries instructs us on which areas to collect, and sometimes, joins us during collections.

A quick synopsis about the Tongan laws on live marine collection:

The Island Kingdom of Tonga consist of over 170 Islands split into three main groups of Islands.
-Tongatapu Group
-Ha'apai Group
-Vava'u Group
The collection of live corals, fish, invertebrates, live rock is legal only on the Tongatapu group. The Tongatapu group consist of dozens of islands, reefs and atolls. Within the Tongatapu group the Ministry of Fisheries has split collection sites into four zones of which these zones are rotated quarterly. This means collectors are allowed to collect only in one specific area or zone for three months and then must switch to another designated zone approved by the Ministry of Fisheries. Thus, every year, collectors would have permission to collect from all four zones. This is one way to ensure sustainable and safe live marine collections.

I can assure everyone that Eddie and Brian were collecting from a legal zone approved by the Ministry of Fisheries and the King. The Liku side of the island is commonly known in Tonga as "the reef side," or "the barrier side" where the current is usually relatively rough. Usually, every island in Tonga has a Liku side, if not multiple Liku sides or reef sides. Liku is not the name of a beach or island, but a description of an area of any island.

If anybody has any questions, you can e-mail me at [email protected]. If JT would like to see the King of Tonga, he would have to go through me as I am one of his personal chiefs. Long live the King from the friendly islands of Tonga!

Regards,

Christian