article from aussie television

[clarionreef]

Wayne,
He asked that if anyone were interested...to email him also.
So why ask him in public?
Steve

 

[naesco]

Wayne,
He asked that if anyone were interested...to email him also.
So why ask him in public?
Steve

Because he offered in public and I emailed him twice privately with no reply.
I thought perhaps he didnt get them. Would a third email have been more acceptable?

 

[wayne in norway]

Naesco, did you actually read what mkirda stated about third world aquaculture (- a sentiment I agree with.) Why do you instantly make the irrelevant leap into cyanide capture?
And then quote an article on hyposalinity?

 

[PeterIMA]

Wayne, I would agree that the thread got off the topic (what was happening in Vanuatu). As far as I know there is no cyanide being used in Vanuatu. James Armitage has exported fish, corals, and giant clams. He collaborated with the Fisheries Department that set up a giant clam hatchery. He wanted to collaborate with the IMA. About 4 years ago, he got upset when another department (than the Fisheries Department) issued permits to about four companies that allowed exports of aquarium fish and invertebrates. There were reports that some of these operators (not the one mentioned on the URL posted earlier in this thread) were depleting the remaining populations of giant clams, had wiped out the deepwater hard corals important for making jewelry, and overharvesting aquarium fishes. Since then, the company mentioned by the journalist established itself in Vanuatu. I believe they originally were partnered with Mr. Armitage. As stated in the postings their collectors use barrier nets (not cyanide). There was a falling out and now Mr. Armitage is making exagerated claims against them. That is on topic.

The other things (cyanide, aquaculture, hyposalinity) were introduced by GarageBrian (whomever) and pushed the thread off topic. It is not Naesco's fault, he was just responding to others' postings (like that of Mike Kirda). The issues of mortality and hyposalinity were being discussed in another concurrent thread (started by Terry). Most of us regulars who follow these discussions are guilty of Thread Spread (new term). Hence, we tend to drift off the topic of the original thread (but we understand the context since we have read all the previous and concurrent threads).

Peter
East Asian Seas Initiative

 

[mkirda]

You cannot justify the continued poisoning of our reefs with cyanide on the basis that the poor fishers need a job.

Just as you cannot advocate taking away the only chance marginalized fishermen have at making money to feed their families.

This is the thing that hits me the hardest, Naesco.
You can sit there and find it so incredibly easy to judge others.
While sitting in a house where the roof doesn't leak, where you have ready access to fresh water, electricity, heat and employment opportunities.
Your reality is but a far off dream for many people on this planet.
Something they might be able to aspire to in two or three GENERATIONS.

I am really beginning to think that 95% of the population of the first world countries just doesn't get poverty of the scale of places like the Philippines.
Scary when you think that PI is still way better off than Afganistan. Visiting these places and seeing the poverty and the people and their circumstances firsthand, you come to understand things a little differently.
That is the difference between me and you, Naesco. I can understand how some of the policies you so vociferously advocate would actually work against what you aim to achieve. You don't see it even when pointed out to you because you are blind to this distant third-world reality by your first world eyes.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[naesco]

Let me assure you and I and all other Canadians have a much better appreciation of the third world than you and we start at home making sure the poor are looked after.

I repeat there is not justification for poisoning the reefs

We have an obligation as those who participated in its destruction through purchasing fish from cyanide sources to ensure that the fishers displaced by cyanide closure and the result of damage to the reefs that cyanide has already done, to see that they get re-training perhaps in aquaculture or other endeavours until the reefs are repaired of the damage you and industry has caused.

To pretend that these fishers can survive when there are less and less fish left from overfishing and poor reef production is nonsense.

 

[mkirda]

Let me assure you and I and all other Canadians have a much better appreciation of the third world than you and we start at home making sure the poor are looked after.

I repeat there is not justification for poisoning the reefs

We have an obligation as those who participated in its destruction through purchasing fish from cyanide sources to ensure that the fishers displaced by cyanide closure and the result of damage to the reefs that cyanide has already done, to see that they get re-training perhaps in aquaculture or other endeavours until the reefs are repaired of the damage you and industry has caused.

To pretend that these fishers can survive when there are less and less fish left from overfishing and poor reef production is nonsense.

Again, Naesco, the nonsense is this black and white view of the world.
Of course they will survive, but their lives will be harder than before.
Even dead reefs attract some fish. Structure in water attracts fish, whether the structure is live or dead doesn't matter. For most, it means less and less catch with more and more effort until they reach a point where other forms of employment become more lucrative and they leave fishing as an occupation altogether.

Aquaculture as it has been practiced over the past two decades has also been the source of a lot of reef destruction in the Philippines. One of the best ways to rehabilitate the reefs there is to destroy many of the abandoned shrimp ponds and replant mangroves in the millions. It would do wonders of the near-shore reefs that were destroyed by the sediment that came after the prior mangrove habitat destruction.

Gotta love how now I am somehow personally responsible for the destruction of the reefs. The logic of three day old spaghetti, I guess.
Your point may be in there, but is isn't possible to untangle it.

Finally, Naesco, how Canada treats its poor isn't germane to this discussion. Last I checked, Canada was a first world country. Granted I haven't seen much of it outside Ontario in the last ten years, I cannot believe that the rest of it has fallen to third-world status.

Regards.
Mike Kirda