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Anonymous

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I have two new competitors in town. One shows everyone the wholesale pricing on dry goods, the other passes around the availability list from Sun Pet and then posts my retail prices on all his tanks. I realize there isn't much I can do about it, but man does it chap my hide.
 
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Anonymous

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Rover":cnxbw49b said:
I have two new competitors in town. One shows everyone the wholesale pricing on dry goods, the other passes around the availability list from Sun Pet and then posts my retail prices on all his tanks. I realize there isn't much I can do about it, but man does it chap my hide.

Emphasize service, man! There's no way they can match your knowledge...

Peace,

Chip
 

clarionreef

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Yes ,
They will come to you for the knowledge and free consultancy...[that you may emphasize] and then go to them to spend money.
Some may have the 'decency' to buy a magazine or some fish food for taking up a half hour of your time....but most won't .

Picking the brains of experts to then go support the 'know nothing' flea market dealer has become the normal routine now has it not?
Ultimately we will have the kind of trade we deserve....
Steve
PS.
Rovers tombstone will read;
"HE SURE KNEW HIS STUFF"...[and helped me buy all my gear...elsewhere.]
 

JennM

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I showed this post to Scott. He works in a competitive business - their competition advertises "comparisons" to the company he works for. As a result, they get a lot of "surprise" contact from prospective clients who have seen the others' advertising and feel that if those companies are comparing themselves to his employer, then his employer must set the standard in that industry. And they do.

Not very comforting, I know - but it might backfire on them in the end, to some extent.

There will always be the bargain hunters - in any business - but at the end of the day, you get what you pay for. My auto mechanic back home used to have a sign behind the counter that said,

The Bitterness of Poor Quality Lasts Long After the Sweet Price is Forgotten.

Remember that. Some have to figure that out the hard way - but many figure it out in the end, and return to where they got value added for the extra buck or two they may have to pay. Personally I don't blame folks for trying to save a bit here and there on big-ticket stuff, but most do continue to come back for day-to-day stuff, emergency stuff, livestock, help and advice. If they buy their MH fixture someplace else, that just means I can confidently sell them more demanding creatures, knowing that they will be housed in a suitable environment.

Then, there will always be those who aren't so worried about price, as they are about long-term support, and choose to spend their money, not only as an investment in their hobby, but as an investment in the specialty store that helped them acheive their goals. Those customers are the lifeblood of this industry, IMO.

What I can't figure out is why they would show their wholesale prices to their customers? They won't stay in the game long if they don't take a suitable markup in order to pay their bills - as much as hobbyists complain about the markup in the fish trade - it's necessary for the shop to take a margin on their resales in order to keep the doors open. Nobody thinks twice about the price of a loaf of bread or milk (usually a loss leader - I spent many years in the grocery biz) or steak or breakfast cereal - or their stereo system or furniture... but all of those vendors have to mark things up to pay their overhead.

As for showing livestock lists - if they are *only* showing Sun's list, and you are buying from more direct sources, that's no biggie, IMO. I have found Sun Pet (at least their saltwater stuff) to be much higher-priced than if I buy direct from west coast (not only California) suppliers. Sun sells yellow tangs wholesale, for more than I charge for them at retail - so that's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned, because I buy them elsewhere for less.

Sooner or later, showing the wholesale prices to the buying public WILL bite them in the hiney - because the very bargain hunters they are pandering to will eventually resent even them taking any markup. And if they are selling at cost, they'll find out the rent and wages don't get paid that way.

Let us know how that goes... I'm curious about it myself.

Jenn
 
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Anonymous

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It was freshwater stuff he was showing. I just resented the fact that the conversation was more about how much I was ripping off my customers and what a favor he was doing for his. (This is a PSP using used Walmart filtration systems :roll: ) I did get a little chuckle out of it when the guy happened to mention that he had a nasty case of ick hit his tank shortly after adding the fish he got such a good deal on. :lol: And I certainly don't mind being the one that sets the standard, and if he wants to make sure that all of his customers know who I am, I'll certainly let him. It's just frustrating to deal with people who are willing to stoop a lot lower than you.
 

JennM

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Don't stoop. Just carry on as if nothing has changed. Keep on doing what you're doing. Folks like that come and go...

Like I said, you get what you pay for. Hold your head high and carry on.

Jenn
 

dizzy

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You should probably call to PSP main office and tell them what the guy is doing. I doubt they really want franchisee's behaving in such a manner as it reflects badly on the entire chain. Maybe if your lucky you can get his ass chewed. :D I doubt most Pet Supplies Plus make the lion's share of their profit from the fish room, so he could probably afford to do dumb things for quite some time. You might also consider going down there and having a chat with the fellow. Price wars don't really do either retailer much good.
Mitch
 

JennM

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Mitch makes a good point. If this store is a franchise, there are usually some rigid rules and policies that each franchisee has to adhere to. I don't know if what they are doing fits into the franchise scheme of things, but I daresay that would not jive with franchise policy. Before you blow the whistle, be darned sure.

Again - keep us posted, this issue can crop up anywhere.

Jenn
 
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dizzy":jw4pv7d8 said:
You might also consider going down there and having a chat with the fellow.

Punch him in the throat!!! ;)

Glenn, do you carry discus?

Peace,

Chip
 

Piero

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yes, you may have some recourse if he/she is breaking any franchising rules, but other than that...you'll need to compete, or you'll get beat.

Stressing "customer service", "qualtiy", "advice" and "support" as competetive advantages may work for some niches, mainly for newer hobbyists who have not found the internet resources yet. But then you rely on customers who don't self-educate(fools).

BuOnce customers discover the internet resources for the hobby, your advice is worthless. And from an educated consumer's perspectice...your advice will always be tainted by the fact that you have a vested interest in them spending money on your business anyhow.

just my .02
could be wrong
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I hear ya. Do you think the hobby would exist without the local fish store? Do you think the hobby would exist without the internet?
 

JennM

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Piero":14gphzq9 said:
yes, you may have some recourse if he/she is breaking any franchising rules, but other than that...you'll need to compete, or you'll get beat.

Stressing "customer service", "qualtiy", "advice" and "support" as competetive advantages may work for some niches, mainly for newer hobbyists who have not found the internet resources yet. But then you rely on customers who don't self-educate(fools).

BuOnce customers discover the internet resources for the hobby, your advice is worthless. And from an educated consumer's perspectice...your advice will always be tainted by the fact that you have a vested interest in them spending money on your business anyhow.

just my .02
could be wrong

Pretty cynical reply, IMO.

You mean all customers who don't use the Internet to research are "fools"? I entered the hobby long before the Internet, and I used these neat things called "books", and I socialized with other hobbyists at my LFS every weekend, in order to learn and share experiences. A lot of that still goes on in better LFS today, and within clubs.

I have well-educated, savvy customers who don't fuss with Internet sellers because they *see* the value of having a reputable LFS in their own back yard, and to them the few extra dollars here and there are well worth having me available during an emergency etc.

What Glenn's neigbours are doing is unethical business practice, IMO, but sooner or later it will bite them in the butt because the very market they are catering to will find it cheaper someplace else eventually, or they'll go out of business because they can't meet their expenses by lowballing everything out there.

Jenn
 

Piero

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well, I imagine at this point the hobby would exist without either. However, as a hobby consumer(albeit a shrewd one)...I must admit I valued the internet much more than any lfs.
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Piero

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yes, books are good too Jenn, or so I'm told.

but that's still self-education. And yes, anyone who does not take the initiative to self educate is a fool, imo. I'm sure you do see it as cynical, i just see it as realistic.

"I socialized with other hobbyists at my LFS every weekend, in order to learn and share experiences. A lot of that still goes on in better LFS today, and within clubs. "

socializing - this activity is easily ported to the internet, and it is.

"I have well-educated, savvy customers who don't fuss with Internet sellers because they *see* the value of having a reputable LFS in their own back yard, and to them the few extra dollars here and there are well worth having me available during an emergency etc."

networking/support - you can just as easily develop a support network of fellow hobbyists as you can with an lfs. if the lfs is not there, there's still plenty of networking and support opportunities with other hobbyists.

again...regardless of the owner..including Jenn:
the lfs has a vested interest in profit, so I'd rely on getting advice from other hobbyists with no vested interest in my wallet, no matter how slight.

And nobody should doubt the viability of the hobby without lfs's....we all know there are plenty of hobbyists in the country that have no lfs anywhere near them, and they are in the hobby thanks to the internet...I'm guessing. hell, idunno. just my .02
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JT

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The two, internet and LFS, can compliment each other when the internet user isn't as cynical and narrowminded as Piero and the LFS isn't as unethical as Rover's competitor.

- Uncle JT
 

JennM

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Piero":2d2xraro said:
again...regardless of the owner..including Jenn:
the lfs has a vested interest in profit, so I'd rely on getting advice from other hobbyists with no vested interest in my wallet, no matter how slight.

So the internet seller has no desire to make a profit?

While I respect your points made, sorry but that one makes NO sense at all. If business people, regardless of their pursuit, don't make a profit, they don't stay in business, period.

Intelligent people gather information from various sources.

Your friendly neighbourhood etailer can't do much for you when your tank cracks at 5:00 on Christmas Eve (happened to Todd W. this past year), and when your Mag 12 dies at 9:30 on a Sunday night (happened to Jim F.) I'm glad there are enough Todds and Jims out there who don't ONLY rely on me for an emergency, I see them every week for their bread and butter items, as well as their panic times. If not for their patronage, I wouldn't be around when there was a crisis.

The hobby existed and flourised long before the Internet. I think you are more than naive to think it could exist *without* LFS. How many hobbyists got into it because they saw a website? How many got into it because they saw a personal or public display, or a LFS? It's a visual hobby, and 2 dimensional images on the web still cannot compare with real life.

Just my 4 cents ;)

Jenn
 

JennM

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JT":3nwvi0qs said:
The two, internet and LFS, can compliment each other when the internet user isn't as cynical and narrowminded as Piero and the LFS isn't as unethical as Rover's competitor.

- Uncle JT

Exactly.

Well said.

Jenn
 

Piero

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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:57 am Post subject: (chuckle)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jenn,The statement about LFS's vested interest in the bottom line(theres a reason its called that) is in reference to the need for consumers to get advice from objective sources(not the lfs), nothing more.

I did not mean to insinuate that etailors don't have a vested interest in profit, since last time i checked they were businesses. And yes, that would be an absurd insinuation that makes no sense....but i didnt make it...:P
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Piero

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I did not mean to imply that internet and lfs's cannot co-exist, or couldn't compliment eachother, or anything else.

all I'm saying is that some of the competetive advantages you're touting:support, advice and customer service, have much less worth in the age of free information/communication and global competition.

i think it's just as naive to say that the hobby relies on lfs's and that is would cease to exist without them. the hobby exists...period...and would continue to exist under any of the above presumptuous scenarios.

With or without etailors, lfs's, or the internet...whatever. I doubt the hobby at this point relies on any one part of that equation. if any one piece ceased to exist, the other entities would fill the void and provide the functions of the missing element.

what i think is important to point out, is that the inherent value of the lfs shrank significantly with the information age, and the birth of the internet. Hobbyists now have acces to a virtually unlimited pool of minds and resources to facilitatae education, communication, networking, and group/peer interaction.

many industries have been alterd significantly because of the benefits of the information age.
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