Another dumb Mac Cert question.

[clarionreef]

So much fanfare and funding for the concept...
so little interest and investigation in the yearly result.
Whats that all about?

you know what happens to a football coach that doesn't produce...
He gets canned ,
& Ancient Mayan captains in the sport Jai Alai...lost their heads when they didn't produce.

Pushing concept may make sense in the initial year of the big kick-off...but if thats all thats left after 7 years on the job, perhaps its time for a change...
If not in leadership, then in the whole basic strategy of saving coral reefs thru elaborate and tedious bookkeeping.
Sure it pays homage to GMAD and sets up the next round of funding, but corals get cashed in as the thing drags on into year after year....and fisherman get reminded that this thing will not improve their lives at all.
Alienating them is fatal as they could be the real custodians of the reefs off their home turfs...
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

UNITED STATES...certified facilities

A&M Aquatics
16260 National Parkway
Lansing, Michigan 48906 USA
Tel. +1 517 321-7258
Fax +1 517 703-9688
Email [email protected]

Quality Marine
5420 West 104th Street
Los Angeles, California 90045 USA
Tel. +1 310 645-1107
Email [email protected]

Sea Dwelling Creatures
5515 West 104th Street
Los Angeles, California,nCA 90054
Tel +1 310 676 9697
Fax +1 310 676 9699
Email: [email protected]

Segrest Farms
PO Box 758
Gibsonton, Florida 33534 USA
Tel: +1 813 677 9196
Fax: +1 813 677 4842
Email: info@segrestfarms.

Which of the greats did you mean?
Its a short list...roughly one importer per year and a half spent ...and the money squandered....you don't even wanna know.

If run with credibility....if genuine and competent, the list could be dozens long. The criticism is not from the intention but the faulty
implementation.
The group claimed that they had the talent and the wherewithall to do the job. When no where near the claimed assets are in evidence...this is called loan fraud or perjury or false witness or worse .
Millions drained and scant dozens trained falls so far short of the goals and ability claimed as to constitute something that should be investigated.

Misleading "poor innocent" funders and /or dealers to seperate them from their money is the real talent here. In this we all agree, MAC has no equal.
Steve

Is just Walt's Fiji station certified, not his facility in LA? What's up with that :lol:

 

[coralfarmin]

look cortez



I am saying they are great companys and have great livestock imo.

I will PM you the name of the importer/Exporter since you did not get it in your list

 

[coralfarmin]

To me buying stock from a certified facility is like saying the stock is certified, or better

that may not be the case, as mike said there may be some that are bad, I just dont know them yet

 

[JT]

Is just Walt's Fiji station certified, not his facility in LA? What's up with that :lol:

If you are referring to PAF, that is no longer controlled by Walt so it makes perfect sense.

AFAIK, the only biz Walt has going on these days in Los Angeles are his fake corals and live rock import. Not much to certify there.

 

[coralfarmin]

This is NOT about PAF

 

[JennM]

Gentlemen, it seems that our friend Coralfarmin has been brainwashed by all the hype generated by the MAC. He believes that "MAC Certified" somehow means "better". While he's a little bit late into the game, it's a great example of the power of good PR and slick marketing.

Coralfarmin - I respectfully suggest that you plunge into the archives here and take a look at MAC's substance - or lack thereof.

If you truly believe that a group of suits who are good at applying for and receiving grant money, people who have never worked a day in the marine ornamantals trade in their lives, can really build a better mousetrap, then by all means, save your pennies and buy a "certification" which will get you a pretty logo that you can use and that's about it.

There are 2 pages of postings explaining why MAC isn't working, why those of us who have been in the trade for years, believe that MAC is a waste of time and lots and lots of money, but hey, what do we know anyway?

Did it ever occur to you that if the suppliers you mentioned are supplying superior product, perhaps it's because of the way they do business, and not JUST because of a MAC certification? FYI there are some excellent suppliers out there that don't come with a MAC sticker as well - in fact I'd even go as far as to say that they might even be BETTER than some of the entities you mentioned in your MAC list. The sticker has little or nothing to do with it.

Besides with zero MAC certified organisms to sell, the certification means nothing when you're buying uncertified organisms (honestly the whole certification thing is such a joke it wouldn't make much difference with "certified" organisms - no cyanide detection test, no standards... no watchdog).

You've spent 2 pages sticking up for MAC. We've spent 2 pages giving you a reality check. The truth is out there... you decide whether you want to see the Emperor's new clothes, or his naked butt.

Jenn

 

[coralfarmin]

Jenn that was cortezs list

I did not want to get into names

He still did not list it

not that it matters

I still dont think it is appropriate to start lists of names here

so I pm'd him

I also agreed with mike that some certified, may not be that great, "I just dont know them yet"

Mac can always restructer their mission, mabey all the experts can actualy join and help them do just that

if they lower the inital cost of certification, I'm sure way more would jump on the bandwagon and aquire the logo

 

[JennM]

I also agreed with mike that some certified, may not be that great, "I just dont know them yet"

So why hedge all your bets on who is certified and who isn't? Why not talk to suppliers, ask for client references, make some calls, find out what suppliers' clients are saying about them. That's what most of the rest of us do/did. I don't give a tinker's damn about a MAC sticker or not, I want quality livestock and as much assurance that it was ethically collected as anyone can guarantee in this business. Most of that is the honour system but it doesn't take long to figure things out when you receive a few shipments and look at DOA/DAA. I have less DOA/DAA now with a non-certified shipper than I did with one that is certified today (wasn't certified when I used them but I have no reason to believe they've changed anything).

Mac can always restructer their mission, mabey all the experts can actualy join and help them do just that

And maybe I'll sprout wings and fly to the Moon. You're missing the point on this one too--- MAC doesn't WANT the "experts" involved because many (most?) have been critical of them. I'd also say that many (most?) of us were right on the bandwagon when MAC first appeared on the scene - what they were proposing would have been great for the trade IF there was any real substance to what they are actually doing. Certifying fish out of PI, for example, without a CDT in place is a farce, and everybody knows it. We've called them on it ("we" being the tradespeople.. the "stakeholders" that MAC is so fond of calling us) and we got nothing but doublespeak and promises that never materialized. Wasn't that CDT supposed to be in place April 04? It's ALL smoke and mirrors - that's what's wrong with it.

if they lower the inital cost of certification, I'm sure way more would jump on the bandwagon and aquire the logo

Again, you're totally missing the point. I wouldn't want a "certification" if it was free. It is worthless At the retail level it's worthless because there is no certified livestock to sell. At the wholesale level it's worthless because there isn't certified livestock to sell, and hardly any certified retailers to sell it to. Once certified livestock leaves the certified chain, it's de-certified (oooooohhhhhhhh). At the collection level, certification may be attractive as a selling feature, but from everything I've heard, a nice show is put on for the white guys in suits when they come to call, and then when they leave it's back to business as usual, however that was - 'certifiable' or not. And since there's no checks and balances, no CDT, nobody doing spot checks or surprise inspections, we're just supposed to take everybody's word for it that they are doing things the safe, sustainable and ethical way. Right...... What colour is the sky in your world?

I'd much rather count on the relationship I build with my supply chain, communicate to them my wants and needs, and let my dollars do the talking. Just let the market decide.

If more people looked at quality of livestock, collection method and sustainability, instead of the cheapest price, the industry would sort itself out without the need of smartass NGO types telling us how to do our jobs, or selling us fancy stickers for our windows.

:::ahhhhh:::: I have't let go a good MAC rant in a long time

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

Coral farmin,
It wasn't wrong for Steve to post those names. They are on the MAC website and sometimes even in some fish mags. Easy enough for anyone to find. And I bellieve that IF your supplier was MAC certified, they'd be on that list, unless it just happened yesterday, which I dought.

Mac Cert. Retailers

Venice Pet Center
1846 South Tamiami Trail
Venice, Florida 34293 USA
Tel. +1 941 497-2566
Email [email protected]

Living Sea Aquarium
811 West Devon Avenue
Park Ridge, Illinois 60068 USA
Tel. +1 847 698-7258
Email [email protected]

All Wet Pets, Inc.
Gill-Roy's Plaza
G-6429 W. Pierson Road, Suite #8
Flushing, Michigan 48433 USA
Tel. +1 810 487-2033
Email [email protected]

Preuss Animal House
2119 Haslett Road
Haslett, Michigan 48840 USA
Tel. +1 517 339-1762
Email [email protected]

Absolutely Fish
1080 Route 46W
Clifton, New Jersey 07013 USA
Tel. +1 973 365-0200
Email [email protected]


Maybe you should contact a few of those guys and see if MAC has really done anything for them.

(Did I mention the time I saw MAC stickers on ORA fish in a non-cert. fish store in ILL?)

 

[dizzy]

Look CF you should just go here ( http://www.aquariumcouncil.org/ ) and read about MAC yourself. The list Steve posted came from here. You should contact them and sign the pledge to get certified and they will help you. Coming here to this forum was the wrong choice. It sorts of looks like you were just wacking the hornet's nest as Jenn might say.
Mitch

 

[clarionreef]

CF writes;
"To me buying stock from a certified facility is like saying the stock is certified, or better " :roll:
But thats the thing already pointed out. The FACILITY certification goes thru regardless of the fish certification. in otherwords, you assumed that the certified facilities didn't carry cyanide collected fish. ..when in fact they did and they do. Aiding and abetting the crime is...is....what?
That whitewash is in fact the thing we have oft lamented here. :evil:
Giving sanction to unclean dealers over cleaner ones [ because they shell out for absolution is just politics and business we understand...but supporting sustainable practices it is not.

"Jenn that was cortezs list "
No it wasn't. It was cut and pasted from the MAC website yesterday. :?
Steve

 

[coralfarmin]

they are on the list, no body listed it though since they dont have the CA # listed

only the island office

point is this was about re-ox needed by corals in transship from the Solomon Islands "hint"

not Macs certified suppliers

I just noticed they were certified and was impressed

 

[Anonymous]

Which MAC certified livestock have you seen to judge *IF* MAC Certified is better? The ones I saw (fish only now, no coral from MAC )sure walked on water, oops, I mean float on water

If you sampled some of the exporters before and after certification, what do you think the out come would be? No change, I've experienced it.

If their US number isn't on the list, and only an island station, they're only certified for export, and for the MAC COC to continue, it would have to land at a certified importer/wholesaler then to a MAC certified retailer. So you see, *IF* you wanted these items to be certified, you'd either have to become a MAC certified wholesaler, or go thru one. So you see, you can't have certified transhipping, not MAC at least

 

[Anonymous]

Well you could tranship, if you went thru the MAC French transhipper :lol:

Hmm, certified SI station?

MAC CERTIFIED COLLECTION AREAS

FIJI

Walt Smith International Ltd. (Matacaucau)
Matacaucau Village, Kings Highway
Namalata District, Tailevu Province, Fiji Islands
Tel. +679 3430141/3430110

Walt Smith International Ltd. (Namada)
Namada Village, Queens Highway
Korolevu-i-wai District,
Nadroga/Navosa Province
Fiji Islands
Tel. +679 6500491

Walt Smith International Ltd. (Vatukarasa)
Vatukarasa Village, Queens Highway
Conua District, Nadroga/Navosa Province, Fiji Islands
Tel. +679 6520435

Walt Smith International Ltd. (Vitogo, Naviti, Marou)
Lautoka
Ba Province, Fiji Islands
Tel. +679 6665045

INDONESIA

Pejarakan Camp Committee
Pejarakan Village
Gerokgak Sub-District
BULELENG REGENCY, Bali
Indonesia
Tel. +62 81338793676

PHILIPPINES

Batasan Tropical Fish Collectors Association
Batasan Island, Bohol, Philippines
Tel. +63 919 488-1898

Panglima Sugala Collection Area Management Plan Committee
Panglima Sugala, Tawi-Tawi
Philippines
Tel. +63 927 542 8134

San Francisco Camp Committee
Puerobello, Southern Poblacion
San Francisco, Camotes Island
Tel.+63 915 409-1970

Simunul Collection Area Management Plan Committee
Simunul, Tawi-Tawi
Philippines
Tel. +63 921 641 1508

Tangaran Aquarium Fish Gatherers Association
Tangaran, Clarin, Bohol, Philippines
Tel. +63 920 779-3095


MAC CERTIFIED COLLECTORS

FIJI

Walt Smith International Ltd. (Matacaucau)
PO Box 4466
Lautoka, Fiji Islands
Tel. +679 6665045
Fax. +679 6667591

Walt Smith International Ltd. (Namada)
P.O. Box 4466
Lautoka, Fiji Islands
Tel. +679 6500491
Fax +679 6667591

Walt Smith International Ltd. (Vatukarasa)
PO Box 4466
Lautoka, Fiji Islands
Tel. +679 6520435
Fax +679 6667591

Walt Smith International Ltd. (Vitogo, Naviti, Marou)
PO Box 4466
Lautoka, Fiji Islands
Tel. +679 6665045
Fax +679 6667591

INDONESIA

Kelompok Nelayan Ikan Hias Laut Lestari (Pejarakan Collector Group)
Pejarakan Village
Gerokgak Sub-District
BULELENG REGENCY, Bali
Indonesia

PHILIPPINES

Balimbing Tropical Fish Collectors Association
Balimbing, Panglima Sugala
Tawi-Tawi, Philippines

Batasan Tropical Fish Collectors Association
Batasan Island, Bohol, Philippines
Tel. +63 919 488-1898

San Francisco Tropical Fish Collectors Association
Puerobello, Southern Poblacion
San Francisco, Cebu
Tel. +63 920 764 0176

Samahan Ng Mga Mangingisda sa La
La, Simunul, Tawi-Tawi
Philippines

Tangaran Aquarium Fish Gatherers Association
Tangaran, Clarin, Bohol, Philippines
Tel. +63 920 779-3095

Tonggusong Seaweed Growers and Tropical Fish Collectors Association
Tonggusong, Simunul, Tawi-Tawi
Philippines

Tubig Indangan Fishermen’s Multi-Purpose Cooperative, Inc.
Tubig Indangan, Simunul
Tawi-Tawi, Philippines

MAC CERTIFIED EXPORTERS

FIJI

Walt Smith International Ltd.
PO Box 4466
Lautoka, Fiji Islands
Tel. +679 6665045
Fax +679 6667591

INDONESIA

PT Golden Marindo Persada
Jl. Raya Situbondo No. 168
Ketapang
BANYUWANGI (EAST JAVA)
Indonesia
Tel +62 333511472
Fax +62 333511473
Email [email protected]

CV Panca Naga Jaya
Banjar Batu
Belig
KEROBOKAN BALI
Indonesia
Tel. +62 361730102
Fax +62 361730101
Email [email protected]

Pt Nini Rejeki
Wibisana 100 X
Denpasar
BALI
Indonesia
Tel +62 361424700
Fax +62 361424700
Email [email protected]


Pt Bali Marine
Jl Raya Sesetan 293b
Denpasar
BALI
Indonesia
Tel +62 361720430
Fax +62 361724552
Email [email protected]


Cv Blue Star
Jl. Reformasi No. 1
Tangerang 15224
JAKARTA
Indonesia
Tel +62 2173692738
Fax +62 2173691875
Email [email protected]


Cv Dinar Jakarta
Jl. Raya Dadap No. 30a.
Kecamatan Kosambi
TANGERANG 15211, JAKARTA
Indonesia
Tel +62 215558476
Fax +62 215558477
Email [email protected]

PHILIPPINES

Aquarium Habitat
812 S. Laurel Street
Mandaluyong City 1501
Manila, Philippines
Tel. +63 2 723-8174
Email [email protected]

Aquascapes Philippines Co.
7346 A. Bonifacio Extension
San Dionisio, Parañaque City
Manila, Philippines
Tel. +63 2 715-1036
Email [email protected] or [email protected]

Brem Marine Ornamental Fish Corporation
9424 Urma Drive
Airport Village, Parañaque City
Philippines
Tel. +63 2 851-3439
Fax +63 2 851-0995
Email [email protected] or [email protected]

Cebu Mactan Quality Marine
Lilang Beach Resort
Dat-ag, Maribago
Lapu-Lapu City, Cebu
Philippines
Tel. +63 032 495-2290
Email [email protected]

HD Marine World
12 Munich Street
Merville ParkParañaque City 1700
Manila, Philippines
Tel. +63 2 824-7568
Email [email protected]

International Southern Pacific
122 Caliraya Drive
Marianne Lakeview, FTI
Parañaque City, Philippines
Tel. +63 2 821-6002
Fax +63 2 822-1468
Email [email protected] or [email protected]

Landmark Trading Corporation
240 Quirino Ave.
Tambo, Parañaque City
Philippines
Tel. +63 2 852-7501
Fax +63 2 851-2337
Email [email protected] or [email protected]

Paqualife Corporation
168 Veronica de Leon St.
Pagcor Subd., Sto. Niño
Parañaque City, Philippines
Tel. +63 2 851-1531 to 34
Fax +63 2 852-4601
Email [email protected]

Sea Dragon
4 Chanel Rd.
NAIA, Pasay City
Philippines
Tel. +63 2 854-4665 or +63 928 208-0976
Email [email protected]

Trans Pacific Fisheries Inc.
38 Pili St. Phase 3-C
Gatchalian Subd., Las Piñas City
Philippines
Tel. +63 2 829-3644 or +63 2 829-3645
Fax +63 2 829-3642
Email [email protected] or [email protected]

SINGAPORE

Coralfarm Aquaristic Pte Ltd
60 Lim Chu Kang Lane 6 F
Singapore 718843
Tel: +65 6332 2928
Mobile: +65 9636 2928
Fax: +65 6339 2928
Email: [email protected]

MAC CERTIFIED TRANSSHIPPERS

FRANCE

Amblard Overseas Trading S.A.
Z.A. Central Parc
20, avenue de la Chevalière, F-81200 Mazamet
Tel. +33 563982009
Fax +33 563612491
Email [email protected]

MAC CERTIFIED IMPORTERS

CANADA

Coast Mountain Aquatics
#19 12871 Bathgate Way
Richmond, British Columbia V6V 1Y5 Canada
Tel. +1 604 244-0670
Email [email protected]

FRANCE

Amblard Overseas Trading S.A.
Z.A. Central Parc
3, allée du Sanglier, F-93420 Villepinte
Tel. +33 563982009
Fax +33 563612491
Email [email protected]

All Marine
4, Rue D’orcheux Othis
77280 France
Tel. + 33 164026349
Fax +33 160549878
Email [email protected]
Website www.all-marine.net

Aqua Marina
21, route de Lattes
34470 Perols, France
Tel. +33 467502434
Fax +33 467502435
Email [email protected]
Website www.aqua-marina.net

Odysee Aqua
12 Rue Gerard De Nerval
Othis 77280 France
Tel. +33 160030672
Fax +33 160030427
Email [email protected]

THE NETHERLANDS

Sierviskwekerij Waterweelde
Oude Haagweg 30
2442 EP The Hague, The Netherlands
Tel: +31 70 404 1783

SINGAPORE

Coralfarm Aquaristic Pte Ltd
60 Lim Chu Kang Lane 6 F
Singapore 718843
Tel: +65 6332 2928
Mobile: +65 9636 2928
Fax: +65 6339 2928
Email: [email protected]

UNITED KINGDOM

Tropical Marine Centre
Solesbridge Lane
Chorelywood, Herts, WD3 5SX, UK
Tel. +44 1923 284151
Email: [email protected]

Tidal Life Company Ltd.
Wilds Lodge Empingham Rd.
Stamford PE9 3UL, UK
Tel. +44 1780754947
Fax +44 1780762091
Email [email protected]
Website www.tidal-life.co.uk

UNITED STATES

A&M Aquatics
16260 National Parkway
Lansing, Michigan 48906 USA
Tel. +1 517 321-7258
Fax +1 517 703-9688
Email [email protected]

Quality Marine
5420 West 104th Street
Los Angeles, California 90045 USA
Tel. +1 310 645-1107
Email [email protected]

Sea Dwelling Creatures
5515 West 104th Street
Los Angeles, California,nCA 90054
Tel +1 310 676 9697
Fax +1 310 676 9699
Email: [email protected]

Segrest Farms
PO Box 758
Gibsonton, Florida 33534 USA
Tel: +1 813 677 9196
Fax: +1 813 677 4842
Email: [email protected]

MAC CERTIFIED RETAILERS

SINGAPORE

Coralfarm Aquaristic Pte Ltd
60 Lim Chu Kang Lane 6 F
Singapore 718843
Tel: +65 6332 2928
Mobile: +65 9636 2928
Fax: +65 6339 2928
Email: [email protected]

FRANCE

All Marine
4, Rue D’orcheux Othis
77280 France
Tel. + 33 164026349
Fax +33 160549878
Email [email protected]
Website www.all-marine.net

Abris Sous Roche
Immueble ‘Les Gemeaux’
30/40, Rue Baudin,
Courbevoie 92400 France
Tel. +33 146679500
Fax +33 149978070

UNITED STATES

Florida

Venice Pet Center
1846 South Tamiami Trail
Venice, Florida 34293 USA
Tel. +1 941 497-2566
Email [email protected]

Illinois

Living Sea Aquarium
811 West Devon Avenue
Park Ridge, Illinois 60068 USA
Tel. +1 847 698-7258
Email [email protected]

Michigan

All Wet Pets, Inc.
Gill-Roy's Plaza
G-6429 W. Pierson Road, Suite #8
Flushing, Michigan 48433 USA
Tel. +1 810 487-2033
Email [email protected]

Preuss Animal House
2119 Haslett Road
Haslett, Michigan 48840 USA
Tel. +1 517 339-1762
Email [email protected]

New Jersey

Absolutely Fish
1080 Route 46W
Clifton, New Jersey 07013 USA
Tel. +1 973 365-0200
Email [email protected]

Nah, your looking at CV Dinar and wanting MAC certified coral, aren't you? No going around Leader/FITB for that one

 

[coralfarmin]

I quess just their export facility is certified

I emailed the name to cortez...still dont see it listed in your list though

 

[Anonymous]

Now granted thats directly from MACs website, so I doubt it's current or correct

 

[Anonymous]

So, you gonna trying to obtain a MAC wholesale certifiaction then, if you want those MAC certainly fried fish?

 

[coralfarmin]

lol

 

[coralfarmin]

for claritys sake the transshipper is not Mac cert.

they just used the certified importer/exporter