Retail Advice: Troublesome Competitor

[Anonymous]

differ all you want to, a mechanic that tells you to not change your oil is a bad mechanic, regardless of whether or not he can fix a lamborghini :wink:

stores are responsible for what their employees do-they cut the paycheck

bad employee=bad store

(you're only as good as your worst employee-and that's also how you're perceived by the buying public in general :wink: )

 

[JT]

I agree that solutions for ich are pretty scarce in a big reef.

We aren't talking aboot any one particular disease here. The main problem is they have no clue at disease identification at all (e.g. identifying Ich when the clown is obviously suffering from Brook).

you're now in a totally different world bubbah

You don't know me very well vitz, I have worked in retail before. BTW, I'm the one who won the #reefs pool on how long you'd last at Mary's so don't troll me pal. :wink:

But in the end, it's probably best to do nothing and just make sure we are doing the best we can do and remain calm and cool aboot it all. Just frustrating when you bust your back to do the right thing when the guy down the road doesn't care and continues to stay in business. Ya gotta vent once in awhile.

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe you should have your freindly neighborhood Seachem rep pay them a visit. I'm sure they don't want their product misused anymore than you do. It's a win-win.

 

[JeremyR]

Mis-use is use in this case

 

[Anonymous]

I agree that solutions for ich are pretty scarce in a big reef.

We aren't talking aboot any one particular disease here. The main problem is they have no clue at disease identification at all (e.g. identifying Ich when the clown is obviously suffering from Brook).

you're now in a totally different world bubbah

You don't know me very well vitz, I have worked in retail before. BTW, I'm the one who won the #reefs pool on how long you'd last at Mary's so don't troll me pal. :wink:

But in the end, it's probably best to do nothing and just make sure we are doing the best we can do and remain calm and cool aboot it all. Just frustrating when you bust your back to do the right thing when the guy down the road doesn't care and continues to stay in business. Ya gotta vent once in awhile.

:lol:

 

[JennM]

Maybe you should have your freindly neighborhood Seachem rep pay them a visit. I'm sure they don't want their product misused anymore than you do. It's a win-win.

Many thanks, Glenn - a *constructive* idea to offer, and a good one. Too bad, Brian was just in this neck of the woods a week or two ago. Might be another year and a half before he's back :lol: I do think that's a great idea though, and I'm going to talk to either Brian or Rusty and see if they can help

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

I agree that solutions for ich are pretty scarce in a big reef.

We aren't talking aboot any one particular disease here. The main problem is they have no clue at disease identification at all (e.g. identifying Ich when the clown is obviously suffering from Brook).

you're now in a totally different world bubbah

You don't know me very well vitz, I have worked in retail before. BTW, I'm the one who won the #reefs pool on how long you'd last at Mary's so don't troll me pal. :wink:

But in the end, it's probably best to do nothing and just make sure we are doing the best we can do and remain calm and cool aboot it all. Just frustrating when you bust your back to do the right thing when the guy down the road doesn't care and continues to stay in business. Ya gotta vent once in awhile.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree that solutions for ich are pretty scarce in a big reef.

We aren't talking aboot any one particular disease here. The main problem is they have no clue at disease identification at all (e.g. identifying Ich when the clown is obviously suffering from Brook).

you're now in a totally different world bubbah

You don't know me very well vitz, I have worked in retail before. BTW, I'm the one who won the #reefs pool on how long you'd last at Mary's so don't troll me pal. :wink:

But in the end, it's probably best to do nothing and just make sure we are doing the best we can do and remain calm and cool aboot it all. Just frustrating when you bust your back to do the right thing when the guy down the road doesn't care and continues to stay in business. Ya gotta vent once in awhile.

They've got #reefs pools for all sorts of things... My favorite was how long JT's tank was going to stay setup. :wink: I'm one to talk tho....I think I've setup and torn down about as many systems as he has over the years.

 

[PeterIMA]

Why not get the MAC to create guidelines for maintenance of fish in stores, maintenance of water quality, disease treatment, for giving the proper advice to customers etc? They could start with a rough (incomplete) set of MAC standards. Then the MAC could blame the certifiers (who profess to adhere to ISO standards rather than the MAC standards). If I recall the original MAC standards were supposed to be for retail stores, but later shifted to being collector and exporter oriented. How many of you believe the MAC should implement standards for retailers?

Peter

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, and they could draw from their massive pool of experience to tell us how to run our stores. I'll bet that pool is about as full as their collection.

 

[Anonymous]

Well as a hobbiest, maybe (remember, I have a ton o books already) you could "display" something in the store for identifying/treating ich and brook? I'm working with my fav lfs here to do just that.

You know that their customers are visiting your place, just as your's are going there. That's just a fact of retail, but if you have easy to see references, they will remember which store they saw it at. Brings them back in to "check" the facts so to speak.

 

[JennM]

Why not get the MAC to create guidelines for maintenance of fish in stores, maintenance of water quality, disease treatment, for giving the proper advice to customers etc? They could start with a rough (incomplete) set of MAC standards. Then the MAC could blame the certifiers (who profess to adhere to ISO standards rather than the MAC standards). If I recall the original MAC standards were supposed to be for retail stores, but later shifted to being collector and exporter oriented. How many of you believe the MAC should implement standards for retailers?

Peter

Peter, when David Vosseler tried for a couple of hours, by telephone, to win me over a few years ago, I asked this very question.

What I got was that each "certified" (cough) store was to record its "best practices" and adhere to them. Sort of like ISO stuff - you record your SOP and have to be consistent with it. Doesn't mean you have to do it well, or do it right, just do it the same all the time.

So at this point in time, if I'd bought into it then and coughed up my *certification fee* (guffaw...) is I'd have had a book to write about how I run my shop - not for others to use, but for me and my staff to use (OK so everybody should have a policies and procedures manual but I didn't even have employees for the first 2 years!), and then I'd have my fancy schmancy window stickers (or whatever), a nice policies and procedures manual, and NO FISH :lol:

What David didn't tell me in so many words, was that MAC doesn't know about care or husbandry - they seemed to be depending on the participants (how they call, "stakeholders"?) to tell *them* how to do it. That didn't make sense to me then, it doesn't make sense to me now. Bottom line, one doesn't have to maintain any set standard - they just have to maintain their own standard, good, bad or ugly.

Jenn

 

[PeterIMA]

Jenn, Thanks for the clarification. As you explained, MAC certification does not mean that those becoming certified have to meet MAC standards (so why have them?). Without common standards MAC Certification is meaningless.

The trade deserves better than this. Standards should be created to give guidelines (not mandatory) on what is required for collection, transport, holding, shipping, acclimation, and maintenance of marine organisms etc. The standards should be created by experts in the trade or panels of those persons most knowledgeable about what is necessary to keep marine organisms alive and in good condition.

Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

peter, weren't you kind of defending MAC on all of their 'goals' back when some of us were pointing all of this out about 2 yrs ago ?

what took you so long?

 

[Anonymous]

peter, weren't you kind of defending MAC on all of their 'goals' back when some of us were pointing all of this out about 2 yrs ago ?

what took you so long?

When MAC first came about he couldnt stand good ole Paul.....then seemed to support MAC now is anti mac... :wink:

 

[spawner]

A good scientist is always examining the evidence. Some times it just takes a bit for the poo to stink.

 

[JeremyR]

I've had an on and off again relationship with the MAC too. Sometimes those 2 beef patties, 3 layer bun, special sauce is just what the dr. ordered. Sometimes a double quarter with cheese is more suitable. Lately, I've been going for the crispy chicken club. Will I ever go back to liking the big MAC? In todays world of a sandwhich with less filler and more meat.. probably not..

Then there is the wendy's triple... 3/4 pounds of beef and biggie fries...

 

[clarionreef]

Jenn writes;
"What I got was that each "certified" (cough) store was to record its "best practices" and adhere to them. Sort of like ISO stuff - you record your SOP and have to be consistent with it. Doesn't mean you have to do it well, or do it right, just do it the same all the time. "

The right to volunteer ones own notions...regardless of how mundane, routine or inadequate is fine I guess. Tis a "to each his own" type of thing...and is hardly noteworthy.
"MAC peddling" before a cantankerous trade and lightening up on all the original ideals to garner widespread acceptance is more a marketing tool then anything related to the environment.
In fact, Dave V. used to tell exporters and dealers that they could still deal in their normal fish supply as they slowly weave in the MAC fish. ...even if it took 10 years.
They were sensitive to the reluctance of dealers to reform quickly and quickly adjusted their ideals downward to fit in better. 8)
It worked. In fact, it worked so well that they gained the acceptance of the cyanide crowd and became at odds with reformers.

Wow...

 

[PeterIMA]

Did Peter Rubec go from being against the MAC to being a MAC supporter, and then back to being against that organization?

In response, I like others was originally sceptical of the MAC (even while the IMA was pro-MAC with the IMA rep on the MAC BOD being Dr. Charles Barber). I wrote a pro-MAC article with Ferdinand Cruz about the MAC feasability study, and implementation and testing of CAMPs that was published in the OFI Jourmal during 2002. I was hopeful that the MAC was for real. I became disillusioned after Ferdinand resigned in protest and posted his letter on Mary Middlebrook's website. Anyone who wishes more information can glean it from the postings by myself and others here on this forum (search the database for past postings).

The MAC was primarily smoke and mirrors a few years ago probably because they did not have sufficient funding. This is understandable. We might even forgive them for their past transgressions, if they would just get on the right path and "do things right". The tragedy now is that although they have so much funding through MAMTI, they continue on their previous path. Wouldn't it be easier to train the collectors properly and support true reform of collection and transport methods in the MAFT?

Peter Rubec

 

[dizzy]

It's a classic example of robbing Peter to pay Paul. :wink: