Why I buy online sometimes....

[JennM]

Personally, I would have pulled the part that was needed off of the pump I had in stock, ordered a replacement for my pump and charged $10-15 for the part that was needed; or would have volunteered to obtain the part that was needed as a special order. Special orders are nice because they get people back in the store.

Knuck, would either of those options have made you happy?

I do this type of thing regularly. I do stock commonly needed replacement parts but in the event that I don't have one, I'll "borrow" one from the complete item on the shelf and buy a replacement part for that - that gets the customer's equipment up and running fast.

We ususally perform the repair ourselves as well - at no extra charge. While it's not brain surgery to swap an impeller or face plate on a Mag Drive pump (even *I* can do that!) some folks are either mechanically challenged or don't feel confident to do it themselves, OR they just appreciate us going the extra step to do it for them. There's that "customer service" bit again.

Just yesterday one of my biggest spending clients came in with a Mag 9.5 that was broken - she was prepared to spend $100 on a new one. Rather than just sell her one (IMO rob her of her money if it could be repaired) we opened it up to discover the impeller shaft was broken. I stock the impellers - we switched it out, and for $25 her pump was good as new. Saved her $75 versus blindly buying another pump. How's that for "customer service"?? Funny how that keeps coming up, eh?!

If Jeff can sell a Mag 3 for the price I'm selling a Mag 24 for, perhaps one of us is in the wrong business :lol: Our stores are only about 20 miles apart.

I checked my wholesale catalog - that pump wholesale lists for just over $50, and retailers get bottom line discounts based on their ordering habits (volume discount as a percent off). The etailer that was selling them for $39 couldn't have been making much unless they were buying them by the truckload directly from Danner. The big volume seller will always have an advantage over the shop that buys onesies and twosies. That being said, I don't stock the Mag 3, but the Mag 5 is the next size up and one that I stock, and I sell that for $75. Modest markup, and I sell quite a few of them. I'm sure many are aware that they can get it cheaper online - but they also get the after-sales service with it, and they get it *today*.

The cameraderie aspect shouldn't totally be dismissed either - Jeff has a valid point. My store's namesake back in Canada was our favourite hang-out on weekends - we'd hang there and gab about our tanks with other like-minded individuals. Non-hobbyists just don't understand sometimes

Our store has comfy couches around the 1000 g display, and a nice armchair in front of the 120. We've also got chairs by the book section if you'd like to "set a spell" and peruse the pages before you buy. If you should happen to have to wait to be served on a busy Saturday, you can at least relax and be comfortable while you chat with other hobbyists waiting to be served, and then we as staff don't feel quite so panicked to rush the customer we're serving because the next in line is enjoying him/herself while they wait.

I spent a good deal of time yesterday discussing seahorse husbandry (one of my favourite things) with an existing reefkeeper who is contemplating a seahorse tank - we sat and talked, looked at some video footage I took of the breeding pair I used to keep - then she bought books on it to study at home.

I do think a friendly and relaxed atmosphere is crucial to the survival of the B&M - no couches at "big box mart". We encourage people to linger and socialize and learn - for me as a hobbyist over the last 20 years, that was a huge part of the hobby itsellf. There were no clubs back home - at least none that I was aware of, so the only "club" atmosphere was each weekend at the LFS. And also - clubs only meet monthly or so - you can meet others every day of the week at your LFS.

That's just another part of the "value-added" that shopping in person offers versus online buying.

Jenn

 

[JennM]

BookFish,
I will stay off your board . I urge all to watch me continue the quest of catering to " your" customers needs . It will be exciting as the online market continues to grow.
l
Good luck--------Race

Respectfully, this sounds like sour grapes BookFish was only asking you to follow the same Golden Rule that applies to everyone here.

I'm sure you're clever enough to keep the dialogue going within the rules of decorum. In another thread you seemed quite sure of yourself, dare I say, arrogant even? Now you're taking your toys and going home?

In that other thread you implied that the sandbox was big enough for all of us. Perhaps I read that wrongly?

Jenn <---I sell glass boxes.

 

[clarionreef]

Jim,
I am not the slightest bit put off by the tone of his comments.
None of us interested in saving the worlds coral reefs should possess such a sensitive character anyway.
Now Race,
Who on earth said that On-liners do nothing to create market?
They do!
The gist of my entire post was that they do create more and more customers in an increasingly pressured world of fish!

More market chasing fewer fish. Garret Hardins Tragedy of the commons.

The limits, quotas and restrictions imposed in one country after another portend ill for a market mentality that sees increasing demand and a bigger market as a boon to sustainable fish populations...
Sustainability is ment as an ecological term ...not a P.R. soundbite or a financial one. :roll:
Steve

 

[JennM]

Mitch - your point about people undermining you in your shop is taken. I can't say as I've had it happen in my store, but I can remember another local store owner here would go "postal" at the mere mention of online stores. He's not in the biz anymore - he sold his shop.

I've had people tell me they got something cheaper online etc., but I've never been witness to somebody undermining a sale by telling the customer that it's cheaper online. I've never had anybody try to intercept a frag trade either.

I do know this happens and IMO it's bad manners and very uncouth - perhaps I'm just lucky that my customers seem to respect me enough not to do that stuff under my nose - or if they do, they're that discreet about it that I haven't witnessed it. I'm the sort that would say something about it too, if I saw it going down under my nose and under my roof.

I'm not going to stop anybody from buying online, but my goal is to be as competitive with my prices as practicality will allow - and offer the service to make it worth the extra cost to the customer.

Jenn

 

[dizzy]

I hope Race continues to post here. I think he is a sharp guy who can add much to the dialogue. He does come off as being a little cocky and aggressive, but the later may be more defensive in nature, given the history of this forum. Also his success has earned him the right to be cocky if he so chooses. I'm sure he has a softer side and I hope he occasionally shows that too. So Race feel free to join in any time and I think you will find that Golden Rule applies here like it does everywhere else.
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

a pump that wholesales for 29 marked up to 189? 700%. i have never purchased anything online but that pricing practice would get me there in a heartbeat. i totally agree with the "kindred spirit" feel of my lfs but if they marked up dry goods that much, i wouldn't buy there. if you sold it for 90.00 would you sell more? i imagine that somebody would still buy it locally because of the waiting factor and shipping cost. i don't expect my lfs to be competitive with online vendors and i don't mind paying 25%-30% more for that luxury but 500% more would put me online. i think instead of telling the reefers to be careful what we wish for, i think those types of pricing force people who otherwise would prefere to buy locally to buy online. a new setup costs big bucks and if i knew my 5k would get me a 220 instead of a 125 i would be hard pressed not to go for it. would you have repeat buisness from somebody who bought that 189.00 pump and later found out they could get it for 39.00? i doubt it. i would go so far as to say that this kind of pricing created the online market and it will thrive as long as people feel they aren't getting a deal locally.

The knuck said that it retails online at $39 and the LFS sells it at $180.

Thus, the percent difference would be:

% dif = |A - B|/A * 100%

or,

% dif = |$39 - $180|/$39 * 100%

which works out to a % dif of aprox. 361.5%, when A = $39, and B = $180. Of course, all of this depends on my failing math skills. :lol: I'm also figuring that sales tax for the purchase at the B&M offsets the P&H from the online store.

I doubt that most of the B&M retailers here would defend that large of a mark-up as a realistic value in most U.S. markets. Bottom line in this case: the retailer had a mark-up that the market wouldn't bear, ended up trying to sell something other than what was wanted, and was unwilling to offer the service of trying to obtain what was requested.

Personally, I would have pulled the part that was needed off of the pump I had in stock, ordered a replacement for my pump and charged $10-15 for the part that was needed; or would have volunteered to obtain the part that was needed as a special order. Special orders are nice because they get people back in the store.

Knuck, would either of those options have made you happy?

Sounds similar to the kind of stuff I do for my customers. Just took a part off an engine driven pump yesterday and sold it to a customer.

My part should be here in about 4 days.

 

[clarionreef]

Guys,
You're taking an unrepresentative anomalie and purporting it to be the norm.
Use something normal to make the comparisons with like a mag pump or a jar of chemi-pure.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Personally, I would have pulled the part that was needed off of the pump I had in stock, ordered a replacement for my pump and charged $10-15 for the part that was needed; or would have volunteered to obtain the part that was needed as a special order. Special orders are nice because they get people back in the store.

Knuck, would either of those options have made you happy?

I do this type of thing regularly. I do stock commonly needed replacement parts but in the event that I don't have one, I'll "borrow" one from the complete item on the shelf and buy a replacement part for that - that gets the customer's equipment up and running fast.

We ususally perform the repair ourselves as well - at no extra charge. While it's not brain surgery to swap an impeller or face plate on a Mag Drive pump (even *I* can do that!) some folks are either mechanically challenged or don't feel confident to do it themselves, OR they just appreciate us going the extra step to do it for them. There's that "customer service" bit again.

Just yesterday one of my biggest spending clients came in with a Mag 9.5 that was broken - she was prepared to spend $100 on a new one. Rather than just sell her one (IMO rob her of her money if it could be repaired) we opened it up to discover the impeller shaft was broken. I stock the impellers - we switched it out, and for $25 her pump was good as new. Saved her $75 versus blindly buying another pump. How's that for "customer service"?? Funny how that keeps coming up, eh?!

If Jeff can sell a Mag 3 for the price I'm selling a Mag 24 for, perhaps one of us is in the wrong business :lol: Our stores are only about 20 miles apart.

I checked my wholesale catalog - that pump wholesale lists for just over $50, and retailers get bottom line discounts based on their ordering habits (volume discount as a percent off). The etailer that was selling them for $39 couldn't have been making much unless they were buying them by the truckload directly from Danner. The big volume seller will always have an advantage over the shop that buys onesies and twosies. That being said, I don't stock the Mag 3, but the Mag 5 is the next size up and one that I stock, and I sell that for $75. Modest markup, and I sell quite a few of them. I'm sure many are aware that they can get it cheaper online - but they also get the after-sales service with it, and they get it *today*.

The cameraderie aspect shouldn't totally be dismissed either - Jeff has a valid point. My store's namesake back in Canada was our favourite hang-out on weekends - we'd hang there and gab about our tanks with other like-minded individuals. Non-hobbyists just don't understand sometimes

Our store has comfy couches around the 1000 g display, and a nice armchair in front of the 120. We've also got chairs by the book section if you'd like to "set a spell" and peruse the pages before you buy. If you should happen to have to wait to be served on a busy Saturday, you can at least relax and be comfortable while you chat with other hobbyists waiting to be served, and then we as staff don't feel quite so panicked to rush the customer we're serving because the next in line is enjoying him/herself while they wait.

I spent a good deal of time yesterday discussing seahorse husbandry (one of my favourite things) with an existing reefkeeper who is contemplating a seahorse tank - we sat and talked, looked at some video footage I took of the breeding pair I used to keep - then she bought books on it to study at home.

I do think a friendly and relaxed atmosphere is crucial to the survival of the B&M - no couches at "big box mart". We encourage people to linger and socialize and learn - for me as a hobbyist over the last 20 years, that was a huge part of the hobby itsellf. There were no clubs back home - at least none that I was aware of, so the only "club" atmosphere was each weekend at the LFS. And also - clubs only meet monthly or so - you can meet others every day of the week at your LFS.

That's just another part of the "value-added" that shopping in person offers versus online buying.

Jenn

I think you have the formula for a successful business figured out, Jenn. I really respect and appreciate that type of service as a customer.

I used to purchase 95% of my dry goods online until a year ago, when a quality, service-oriented store, with a philosophy similar to yours, opened in my town. It's a small shop but the owners can get me just about anything I need within a week. Their markups are fair, they only carry reliable products, and they have won my loyalty and a lot of word of mouth advertising. I only shop online for products that my LFS says they can't readily source from their suppliers now. Otherwise, there just isn't any real incentive for me to etail at this time.

 

[Anonymous]

Here's another example of my LFS charging way to much. I recently paid $80 for two 8 pound boxes of ARM and a package of Seaweed Select.

ARM sells on-line for $16 at a lot of places and Seaweed select goes for $6 - $8 bucks. So this same order could have been purchased on-line for $40 plus shipping.

My LFS has good pricing on livestock, but horrible pricing on dry goods and equipment.

I do throw all of the LFS's in my area an occasional bone to make up for all of the trips that I make into their stores window shopping. I feel that they are owed something.

I would gladly pay them a little extra for having items conveniently located near my house and not having to wait for things to be shipped. But I can wait for most things and will before I pay double.

It make sense to me that they would reduce their mark-ups. They aren't making any money on me when I buy stuff else where. 25% of something is a whole lot more than 0% of nothing.

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

Here's another complaint that I have with my LFS's. They say they can't get Marshall Island live rock or an Australian Harlequin Tusk.

Hello. If I can load those same things in my on-line shopping cart at a dozen different on-line suppliers, why can't they?

They just don't know how silly they look when they say that can't get it! :lol:

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

Guys,
You're taking an unrepresentative anomalie and purporting it to be the norm.
Use something normal to make the comparisons with like a mag pump or a jar of chemi-pure.
Steve

Mag 5's cost something like $55 online, as I recall. Then you have to tack on something like $10 for P&H making the total $65. If a trusted LFS had the Mag 5 in stock for $75, and kept repair parts on hand it would be an easy decision -- advantage LFS.

 

[Anonymous]

a pump that wholesales for 29 marked up to 189? 700%. i have never purchased anything online but that pricing practice would get me there in a heartbeat. i totally agree with the "kindred spirit" feel of my lfs but if they marked up dry goods that much, i wouldn't buy there. if you sold it for 90.00 would you sell more? i imagine that somebody would still buy it locally because of the waiting factor and shipping cost. i don't expect my lfs to be competitive with online vendors and i don't mind paying 25%-30% more for that luxury but 500% more would put me online. i think instead of telling the reefers to be careful what we wish for, i think those types of pricing force people who otherwise would prefere to buy locally to buy online. a new setup costs big bucks and if i knew my 5k would get me a 220 instead of a 125 i would be hard pressed not to go for it. would you have repeat buisness from somebody who bought that 189.00 pump and later found out they could get it for 39.00? i doubt it. i would go so far as to say that this kind of pricing created the online market and it will thrive as long as people feel they aren't getting a deal locally.

The knuck said that it retails online at $39 and the LFS sells it at $180.

Thus, the percent difference would be:

% dif = |A - B|/A * 100%

or,

% dif = |$39 - $180|/$39 * 100%

which works out to a % dif of aprox. 361.5%, when A = $39, and B = $180. Of course, all of this depends on my failing math skills. :lol: I'm also figuring that sales tax for the purchase at the B&M offsets the P&H from the online store.

I doubt that most of the B&M retailers here would defend that large of a mark-up as a realistic value in most U.S. markets. Bottom line in this case: the retailer had a mark-up that the market wouldn't bear, ended up trying to sell something other than what was wanted, and was unwilling to offer the service of trying to obtain what was requested.

Personally, I would have pulled the part that was needed off of the pump I had in stock, ordered a replacement for my pump and charged $10-15 for the part that was needed; or would have volunteered to obtain the part that was needed as a special order. Special orders are nice because they get people back in the store.

Knuck, would either of those options have made you happy?

Sounds similar to the kind of stuff I do for my customers. Just took a part off an engine driven pump yesterday and sold it to a customer.

My part should be here in about 4 days.

When someone does that for me, they've won my customer loyalty for a long time. Good for you.

 

[dizzy]

How many think you should get a better price from your lfs by suggesting you will buy online if they don't lower the price?
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

Dizzy wrote:

How many think you should get a better price from your lfs by suggesting you will buy online if they don't lower the price?

That might work half the time. The other half of the time you get thrown out. lol

Personally, I'd rather not haggle.

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

What's wrong with talking to a customer about pricing? If profit isn't a dirty word then negotiation shouldn’t be either.

 

[Kalkbreath]

What your not getting, is that our cost on that MAg pump is more then the online retailer is selling it for.
You seem to have skipped right over the part where Jen pointed out her cost on the Mag 3 pump was more then its being sold for on the Web.
Customers point blame at the retailers.
Its the wholesalers who drop ship to the customer and the manfacturers who give extra deep discounts to MD and such yet not to the 5,000 brick and mortar stores who are to blame for the inability of brick and mortars to compete.
For the record I sell the MAg 3 at 69.
So I make twenty bucks whenI sell one.
I bet MD actually makes more then twenty bucks when they sell one because they buy itcheaper then I can.
Most Aust Tusks being sold as such currently are actually not from Down under. The differece is the online store wont tell you so and the retailer is being honest. Yet you embrace the liar? :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Kalkbreath wrote:

What your not getting, is that our cost on that MAg pump is more then the online retailer is selling it for.

That's because you (or whoever was selling the mag for $169) aren't selling enough to get a discount. Lower your price and sell more then you can buy better.

Most Aust Tusks being sold as such currently are actually not from Down under. The differece is the online store wont tell you so and the retailer is being honest. Yet you embrace the liar?

DFS sells tusks from Australia when they have them. They are not always in stock. The other (non-australian) tusks usually are in stock. So do you mean to say that sometimes they lie about where the tusk's are from and sometimes the don't?

Same for The Marine Center.

Louey

 

[dizzy]

What's wrong with talking to a customer about pricing? If profit isn't a dirty word then negotiation shouldn’t be either.

For one thing it is totally unfair to the other customers who don't haggle. Why sould some get better pricing than others?

 

[Anonymous]

I can't believe you all brought up the word haggle...


Don't ya want to haggle?


You say ten and I say Ten for this? its worth 19 if its worth one....


Ahh

my favorite skit of all.







If I could by a mag 3 online for 55 with 10 for shipping so a total of 65 and I could by a mag 3 at my lfs for 70 I would by it from the lfs

75 is pushing it.

Not that I am a tightwad, it just seems like a waste of money to me.


Maybe its because I don't have a good relationship with any lfs here because they all suck.


I so need a good one to open up. Someone knowledgable, trustworthy, environmentally conscious...


Bahh

Wishful thinking around this neck of the woods.

 

[dizzy]

DFS sells tusks from Australia when they have them. They are not always in stock. The other (non-australian) tusks usually are in stock. So do you mean to say that sometimes they lie about where the tusk's are from and sometimes the don't?

Same for The Marine Center.

Louey

What is your definition of in stock?