REEF FISH GUIDE

[clarionreef]

My my,
Reef Fish Guide for the Petco shopper.
Have a look folks. Especially on the banned list.

www.reefprotect.org

All butterflies eat coral?
Mandarins don't live?
Noosecaught ribbon eels from Bali dont feed on lancefish?[ they do!]
Coris gaimardi is a tamarin ie. anampses wrasse?
Holacanthus ie. [passer angels for example] are difficult to keep ie. unsuitable and involve destruction to reefs?

Well, RPI believes in recycling. Recycling decade old notions of suitability that is.
My goodness.
Have fun...
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Is that your review? :lol: Now I have to read it

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe it was John Brandt's Idea to put those fish in there he is on the board of advisors.

 

[spawner]

Can a business person explain this for me. So you give the money to one group, a 501(C) and it gives the money to another group that is not a 501(c)?? I don't always get all this legal tax stuff. Not saying anything is wrong with it, just curious, I've never seen this before.


The process to become a stand-alone charitable organization, or 501(c)(3) status, can be a long and expensive endeavor. To enable RPI to begin operations and accept tax-deductible donations quickly, we sought out a fiscal sponsor. Under fiscal sponsorship, RPI is able to utilize the charitable status of an existing non-profit organization to apply for and accept grants, accept tax-deductible donations from the public, and carry out other tax-exempt activities necessary to execute our mission.

RPI chose Earth Island Institute, a 501(c)(3) charitable organization, as our fiscal sponsor. Under the project agreement with Earth Island Institute, RPI is able to operate as a virtually independent charitable organization, enabling us to carry out our work for coral reef conservation.

 

[clarionreef]

This NGO "work"...
Wow! I'm jealous. ... 8O
"Research" it was called.
I'm tellin ya it pays more to sell nonsense to funders then to actually get wet and work for a living.
No experience required....no fish keeping ability...a good computer and a little nerve.
Steve
PS...
"WORKIN THE DEMAND SIDE IS SO IMPOTENT AND INEFFECTIVE. You have to be new to not know that.
Its something...but reef conservation it ain't. My tomato garden isn't saving the rainforests either...but maybe I should apply for a grant and claim it is.

 

[dizzy]

Well I certainly don't have any problem with what RPI is doing with regards to the Reef Guide. Educating people to stay away from difficult fish is much preferable to pushing for restrictive legislation that bans them completely. Drew sent me the list prior to final publication and I did mention a few things I disagreed with. My suggestions didn't cause the list to be changed, but it didn't really bother me, and I would be willing to hand out the guides in my store. I would simply tell customers the things I disagreed with and why. They could then make their own choice as to purchase or not. While I agree field issues are more pressing than demand side issues, I believe the MAC has asked RPT to leave the filed work to them. If I'm mistaken I hope someone jumps in an corrects my error.
Mitch

 

[clarionreef]

Mitch wrote;
Leave the filed work...to MAC.
BOY is that ever an accurate Fruedian slip. The Filed work is the work. THE FIELD WORK is a huge failure.
Of course RPI could never do any field work either.
Mitch, I too advised him. As with you, he ignored so many critical points that I relized he wasn't sincerely listening but fishing selectively for a few needed things...not to mention validation and referrals...of which you were one.
He saw an unoccupied niche in going after the USL stuff and made hay out of it.
I am disappointed in the "pre-reef" trade field guide and its so full of holes as to be laughable. We both could edit and change it so much better but we learn that with these pretend reformers, this is as good as it gets so we let it slide?

One thing he did learn however, is that very few fish families have captive bred alternatives. He thought, as do many, that there were more and therefore a clear moral choice between the two.

So collection methods of cleaner wrasses are harmful to reefs?
Thats new! [ all caught with butterfly nets ]
Mandarins as well? [ All caught with bamboo needle spears.]
How did the two hardiest genus of lg angels get on the list and not the weakest? Chaetodontoplus, pygoplites and apolmicthys ?

OK...I KNOW, INFO DOESN'T REALLY MATTER IF THERES A PRE-DETERMINED OUTCOME.

Steve

 

[corality]

Steve,

You nailed it

 

[naesco]

Excellent little booklet. Shame on you Steve!!

Mandarins won't live unless in a mature tank with lots of pods.
Industry take: show lots of those psychodelic fish which attract people to buy beginer tanks (10 gal) along with the fish together with lots of useful stuff like canister filters.

Butterflyfish are not for beginners. They require good water conditions, many of them are impossible to keep and most eat coral.
Industry take: Yes, some of them like the striped yellow one eats baby anemones but most are easy to keep in that clean new 10 gallon you bought. Buy a UV and you will keep the lice away.

Ribbon eels; escape artists, don't like active tankmates, need to be hand fed and require pristine conditions.
Industry take; They are just baby morays , easy to keep with your other fish. Give the tank a good shake and they will come out of their hideout.

And the cleaner wrasse and Moorish Idol. I knew a friend who said that his friend had kept one for yeaaaaaaaaaaaars with no problems.

 

[clarionreef]

Wayne,
So you think all the fishes we keep should be point and shoot and live automatically without responsiblity to their care requirements?

Many of us don't think that any mindless consumer should keep fish and therefore don't think that all the fish we keep need to be so simple to keep that even Petco newbies can be successful.
Just how far should it be dumbed down? Wheres the level? Wheres the benchmark that seperates hobbyists from the cut-flower type consumer that accepts no responsibility for not learning, not reading, not caring and not trying to be a better aquarist.
Must we dumb down the allowed list to the lowest talent level in the mob?
Must we dumb down our environmental sensibilities to the lowest knee-jerk level as well?
This is the crowd that the RPI list speaks to...and why I take offense to it.
The pamphlet says...and I quote;
'THE RPI REEF FISH GUIDE IS BASED ON THE MOST CURRENT INFORMATION AVAILABLE...
That is simply not true. There is far better information available but the dumbest among us will never aspire to it and I resent the notion that that is our mission .

Steve

 

[naesco]

Nope, I won't let you out of it..

The guide was obviously targeted towards newbies and as such represents a fair assessment of a much needed.
Needed, to protect them from the thousands of LFS that will suck up all there money and sell them fish and coral with little chance of success in their tanks.
By the way you still not have answered my question about what are you planning at O' 06. A revolution I hope. Bring the house down. Post publically all the offenders. Tell me Steve. What is the plan.

 

[clarionreef]

Wayne,
Then the reef rag should be simply called a guide for beginners and a much shorter one then you can get anywhere else.
Its a very poor and abbreviated summary of a single chapter of John Tullocks book .
The USL was debated and aired here at length but RPI knows nothing of it. They just discovered the issue in fact.

As far as taking advice from you on tactics of social influence, I think I'll wait til your following grows to 2 -3 adherents.
Yelling and screaming and generally misbehaving is actually what some think I do already. :lol:
Reefcheck bowed out of the conference panel already because of this silly notion.
[ Actually thats the excuse. Fact is, they are afraid of questions about their survey methods from the representative of the US Coral Reef Task Force. ]
In five years hoss, you aint done a single physical thing but huff and puff. I wish you would have. I wish you would put that hint of moral purpose to good use and contribute something real for a change.
If we want smoke and platitudes we can just peruse the MAC and RPI websites.
See you in Vegas Wayne....right?
Steve

 

[JennM]

Mandarins don't live????

Shhhh don't tell mine - I've had him for about 3 years.

No fish will survive without having its needs met - Mandarins, aquacultured clownfish, seahorses, yellow tangs...

Neither will puppies, kittens, parakeets and gerbils - but it's a given that people who buy them will at least learn what to do to keep them alive...

Perhaps the booklet should come with an aptitude test...

Score 0-25 = Get out of the hobby while you still have a bank balance

Score 25-50 = Prepare to waste a lot of livestock and cash

Score 50-75 = There's hope that your tank won't end up on eBay

Score 75-100 = Congratulations - you're in the minority!

Perhaps the book is for the big box store itself - they are hard pressed to keep no-brainers alive, let alone something with specific needs like a Mandarin.

Perhaps the hobbyist shopping at the big box store for saltwater fish has a smaller chance of long-term sucess...

Who knows? Just sounds like more money wasted on jabberwocky to me.

Jenn

 

[JennM]

Excellent little booklet. Shame on you Steve!!

Too bad Reeform didn't think of it, eh Wayne? I guess it's Bush's fault... :roll:

Mandarins won't live unless in a mature tank with lots of pods.
Industry take: show lots of those psychodelic fish which attract people to buy beginer tanks (10 gal) along with the fish together with lots of useful stuff like canister filters.

And whose fault is it if a beginner jumps in with both feet without educating themselves? A store is a store - a place to buy things. Libraries and schools and the Internet are places where one can find education.

GOOD stores try to educate their patrons, or encourage the patrons to educate themselves - but the onus is really on the consumer. Would you trust everything a car salesman told you about the car you want to buy, or would you check consumer reports to find out what the car's issues *really* are?

I've got lots of small pretty fish - all appropriate and attractive. What's wrong with that? Nope - I dont' sell Mandarins to people with 10-gallon tanks - in fact I don't even stock Mandarins - I have one as a pet though, have had him nearly 3 years.

And why pick on canister filters? IMO they aren't a good choice for a saltwater tank, but there are hundreds, even thousands running their tanks with a canister, a HOB skimmer and some powerheads. Not ideal, but if one stays on top of water changes and doesn't let the canister go biological - fish can be healthy in such a system. Do I recommend it? Absolutely not - but I get plenty of customers who were sold that type of stuff elsewhere and they make it work.

Butterflyfish are not for beginners. They require good water conditions, many of them are impossible to keep and most eat coral.
Industry take: Yes, some of them like the striped yellow one eats baby anemones but most are easy to keep in that clean new 10 gallon you bought. Buy a UV and you will keep the lice away.

Pssst Wayne, ALL fish (even damsels) require good water conditions, butterflies are no exception - neither is Nemo or any easy care fish. And you don't know what you're talking about concerning butterflies. Ever kept a Klein's butterfly? They are about bulletproof, IMO. Readily accept prepared foods, pretty fish, easy care, no obligate coral feeding. Yes there are many species that aren't appropriate for typical captive care, but there are several good hardy species that do well in captivity.

I have no idea what your UV/lice statment was about...

Ribbon eels; escape artists, don't like active tankmates, need to be hand fed and require pristine conditions.
Industry take; They are just baby morays , easy to keep with your other fish. Give the tank a good shake and they will come out of their hideout.

I repeat, Wayne - ALL fish require good water quality. You make it sound like some fish are "ok" with less than good water. Not so.

Ribbon eels are not morays. I personally don't believe in keeping ribbon eels, especially the terminal males... but I've heard success stories about them - although being terminal their lifespan is nearly over when they get to that life stage.

Nothing wrong with keeping a moray either - as long as you have an appropriate sized tank for the adult size of the specimen. Lots of snowflakes in the trade - they live for years, keep a lid on the tank and they are bulletproof. Throw some food in the tank and they come out of their hideout - or better yet, watch your tank at night, that is when they are active.

And the cleaner wrasse and Moorish Idol. I knew a friend who said that his friend had kept one for yeaaaaaaaaaaaars with no problems.

There are exceptions, to be sure. I don't keep or sell either of those, but I've known people to have success with them. Customer of mine had a cleaner wrasse for 6 years in his 1200 gallon aquarium that was loaded with tangs. Typical hobbyist? Nope. But shouldn't specimens be available to those with appropriate housing for them?

Not every hobbyist (or even every newbie) starts with a 10-gallon tank. I've started people with 200+ gallon tanks because that was what they wanted and their budget permitted it. Not every hobbyist is an idiot. Not every store is out to suck people in.

Jenn

 

[fishinchick]

Perhaps the booklet should come with an aptitude test...

Score 0-25 = Get out of the hobby while you still have a bank balance

Score 25-50 = Prepare to waste a lot of livestock and cash

Score 50-75 = There's hope that your tank won't end up on eBay

Score 75-100 = Congratulations - you're in the minority!


Jenn

OMG that's perfect!! I love it!!! :lol:

I agree. Dumbing it down for people who shouldnt keep a pet rock is dangerous encouragement. It's not going to help them learn anything, it's only going to encourage them to jump right on that 'hard to keep' list so if it does live - they'll think they are an overnight success.
How many idiots have you seen boast they can keep a mandarin alive for six months in a coffee can. I've seen lots. Because they did this, they feel they have gone from novice to pro overnight.

 

[dizzy]

RPI Newsletter – December 2005



Hello RPI friends and supporters:

Please take a moment to read RPI's December 2005 newsletter. Highlights include the completion of the Reef Fish Guide!, a radio appearance and an exciting new partnership.



Sincerely,

Reef Protection International

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



RPI COMPLETES THE REEF FISH GUIDE!

RPI is pleased to announce that we’ve completed the first version of the Reef Fish Guide. A limited quantity has been printed and distributed to a select group of public aquariums, local pet stores and NGO partners (vial e-download). This “beta test” will provide us with public comments (via online survey) to ensure that the Guide is on track and serve to collect feedback to be incorporated into the next version. The testing period will run through February 2006 with a national launch in the second quarter.



RPI would like to thank the following test partners for their help with the launch of the Reef Fish Guide:



Aquarium of the Pacific (Long Beach, CA)

Steinhart Aquarium (San Francisco, CA)

Aquarium of the Bay (San Francisco, CA)

Minnesota Zoo (Minneapolis, MN)

Inland Aquatics (Terre Haute, IN)

Sandy’s Pet Shop (Louisville, KY)

AquaTouch (Phoenix, AZ)

Fin and Feather Pet Shop (Groton, CT)

The Sierra Club

Conservation Fisheries



Here’s the announcement about the Reef Fish Guide on the Aquarium of the Pacific website:



http://www.aquariumofpacific.org/NEWS_E ... -guide.htm



We encourage you to either visit one of these facilities to get your own copy of the Guide, or download one at the RPI website. Please be sure to fill out the short survey so that we may include your feedback for the next version. Please use this link for the download and pass on to others: http://www.reefprotect.org/fish_guide.htm



DREW WEINER MAKES RADIO APPEARANCE ON “BEYOND ORGANIC” RADIO

RPI director Drew Weiner made another appearance on Jerry Kay’s “Beyond Organic” radio show in late November. This is Drew’s second appearance on “Beyond Organic” and this time the focus was on the marine ornamentals trade and the release of the Reef Fish Guide. The show can be streamed or downloaded at:



http://www.beyondorganic.com/template/s ... 5&idy=2005



RPI AND TROPICAL FISH HOBBYIST MAGAZINE AGREE TO COLLABORATE

Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine (TFH), the leading magazine of aquarium hobbyists for over 50 years, wrote a nice piece about RPI in the January 2006 issue, out on newsstands now. TFH Editor-in-Chief David Boruchowitz met with RPI Director Drew Weiner at the MACNA meeting this past September and has pledged to help RPI execute our mission to educate consumers about the marine aquarium trade. Please go to your local newsstand or pet store to buy a copy and see what TFH has to say about RPI and the Reef Fish Guide.



MESSAGE FROM THE DIRECTOR

I wanted to take a moment to thank everyone for their support in 2006. Getting out the Reef Fish Guide was a huge task and couldn’t have been achieved without the direct contributions of many, many people. Please allow me a chance to make some special acknowledgements.



We could not have produced the Guide without the support of our donors…thank you! Much appreciation goes to the RPI Advisory Board for the hard work they put in to the creation of the Reef Fish Guide. Lisa Winter deserves special recognition for the amazing job she did designing the Guide; her patience and hard work resulted in us putting out something really special. I’d also like to thank all the folks at WAMAS for supporting RPI throughout the year and giving us such prominent exposure at this year’s MACNA. Finally, I would like to especially thank the RPI staff and interns that have worked so hard over the past year – Katie Flynn, Thomas Gorrebeeck , Courtney Hart, Marita Mirzatuny, and Jacob Winiecki. These five special people put in many hours to help get RPI to this point.



I understand that at this time of the year everyone is overwhelmed with year-end appeals from numerous charities and non-profit organizations. Please consider putting aside a bit of your generosity to help support RPI and the Reef Fish Guide campaign in 2006. RPI is a very small organization and nearly every dollar contributed by the public goes directly to supporting our program work. Tax-deductible donations to RPI can be made at:



https://www.earthisland.org/rpi/reefprotect.secure.html



You may also send checks to the address below.



We have achieved quite a bit in the past year and, with the release of the Reef Fish Guide, this is only the beginning. Stay tuned for more coral reef conservation success stories in 2006.



Please pass this newsletter on to other people interested in coral reef conservation. Thank you for your continued support and taking the time to stay updated on RPI’s work.



Happy holidays and all the best in 2006.



Sincerely……..drew

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Drew Weiner

Reef Protection International

300 Broadway, Suite 28

San Francisco, CA 94133

ph: 415-788-3666 x223

fax: 415-788-7324

[email protected]

http://www.reefprotect.org



##################################################################################

This email was sent to you because you have been a supporter of Reef Protection International. If you do not wish to receive any e-mail notifications, please contact [email protected] with "Don't Email" in the subject line to have your e-mail address removed from our database

 

[naesco]

Keep up the good work,eh!

If you wish me a MERRY CHRISTMAS instead of the left wing politically correct Happy Holidays (which originated in the US), I will send you a cheque. (In Canadian dollars of course)
Wayne

 

[dizzy]

Keep up the good work,eh!

If you wish me a MERRY CHRISTMAS instead of the left wing politically correct Happy Holidays (which originated in the US), I will send you a cheque. (In Canadian dollars of course)
Wayne

Wow thanks Wayne and a very Merry Christmas to you. You can just send the check to 1415 Campbell Lane Bowling Green, KY 42104

 

[spawner]

Looks like they are going to have a voice with the guide, When is the invert and coral guide coming out?? I still don't understadn this giving money to one group and having it funnel money to the other group thing.

Keep up the good work,eh!

If you wish me a MERRY CHRISTMAS instead of the left wing politically correct Happy Holidays (which originated in the US), I will send you a cheque. (In Canadian dollars of course)
Wayne

Wayne, a very Merry Christmas to you, please don't blame everything that the screwed up west (left) coast does on the whole country. Remember we're like 90% red, just a few spots of confused people.

Dizzy,

You coming to MO in Vegas? Huskey going to be down here in Jan. bit a fishing and a conference.

 

[dizzy]

Dizzy,

You coming to MO in Vegas? Huskey going to be down here in Jan. bit a fishing and a conference.

Andy I doubt. I know Burton Patrick will be there representing the interests of the independent pet stores on the panel. Vegas just ain't my kind of town. I need a good winter vacation to some place a little more laid back. Husky called me last week. He is looking for a large trumphet fish (18-24") to do some research on. Maybe you can hook him up with some local Florida collectors.
Mitch