Consumer owned local fish stores

[smit1260]

I am writing this in response to some of the posts lately that have found problems with their LFS and online sellers. Because of these reasons and others I have begun to think that reefers and fellow fish keepers should attempt a move to consumer owned local fish stores.

I live in Minneapolis, MN and even with our large, well off metropolitain area we have no local fish stores that I trust to provide great knowledge or service. I have been in and out of the fish business since I was 17 and so I know this area very well.

Cooperative fish stores could offer many advantages to it owners/customers. Similar to how a local grocery cooperative works. Provide education, carry products consumers wants, newsletters, promote captive breed and sustainable wild caught live animals. Mail ordering corals could be a thing of the past and benefit us all. Long-term goal could also be captive breeding program onsite (ie greenhouse).

I have a vision of a hobby that is more informed and doesn't create its own headaches. Let me know what you all think, both positive and negative.

For those of you that will propose the classic arguement that this will lead to inefficancy and higher prices let me give you one point to think about before you do. We deal with live animals and much miss information. We all know that an informed reefer can save herself/himself large amounts of money.

dave

 

[clarionreef]

I live in Minneapolis, MN and even with our large, well off metropolitain area we have no local fish stores that I trust to provide great knowledge or service
????
The boys at WORLD OF FISH are not taking care of business up there?

 

[smit1260]

World of Fish......

My comments are just my personal experience and are my own opinion.

I actually personally know Ted, the owner, from working in the wholesale business and he does a decent job of running his store. But I have a few problems with his store.

I beleive his prices are extremely overinflated. Most of them them are quite more expensive then fish at other retailers and the quality is not any better.

I feel his managers are somewhat knowledgable however I have heard comments that are completely ridiculous. The other staff are working there for minimum wage in order to be able to receive a discount on supplies. Therefore I feel it is difficult to find someone who is extremely knowledgable.

Additonally, as with other private retailers, there job is to make a profit, so I feel that the information is not always under the best intentions. I am quite certain that if a dozen experinced aquarists could get together with the help of 500 hobbists they could create a lfs that served the customers much better.

 

[Rikko]

The other staff are working there for minimum wage in order to be able to receive a discount on supplies. Therefore I feel it is difficult to find someone who is extremely knowledgable.

IMO, you get the dude who is only working there to get a discount to run his setup and you've found a great source of information. I'd much rather talk to him than the kid who works there so he can afford his hip hop CDs.

 

[FragMaster]

EXACTLY! You know he is in it for the hobby.
Good advice.

 

[Anonymous]

World of Fish......

My comments are just my personal experience and are my own opinion.

Additonally, as with other private retailers, there job is to make a profit, so I feel that the information is not always under the best intentions. I am quite certain that if a dozen experinced aquarists could get together with the help of 500 hobbists they could create a lfs that served the customers much better.

And you think that a group of hobbiests/store owners won't be in it to make a profit??? No one goes into anything with out the PROFIT formost in their minds.

 

[aquaticvet1]

Hello Smit,
Kind of a modified appraoch to your plan would be join a reef or hobby club . They can help provide the education and as a collective bargaining unit the group can search for club discounts . This is already being practiced and is expanding .
In any event I would encourage you and others to participate in a hobby club . These organizations are invaluable and essential to the hobby .

Just my two cents worth , good luck-------Race

 

[smit1260]

I think there is a misconception of how this would work and the reason for it.

Here is a general idea of how Cooperatives or consumer owned businesses work.

Cooperatives, co-ops, and consumer owned businesses are all names for a special for-profit business in which the customers own a share in the same business that they purchase a particular set of goods or services at. Some examples of co-ops are credit unions, electric co-ops, and grocery co-ops.

They ussally start-up because a group of consumers feel that they market isn't providing them the goods or services they desire, because they want to have more of a say in how the business is run, and/or want to keep money within the community. Each member will puchase a share in the prospective company, say $100. With enough investment (capital) the business can begin operation like any other business (500 members * $100 equals $50,000 of capital. Anyone including non-members can shop at the co-op. Each member can only purchase one share. At any time any customer can become a member increasing capital and thus providing for expansion.

At the end of the year the profits that are made after normal business operations are returned to the member/owners. The amount of money returned is proportional to the amount you spent. Therefore, say if the co-op made 10% profit then you receive a check for 10% of what you purchased for the year. I essence you are receiving a discount on all the items you purchased. At anytime if you wish to leave for any reason you can take your $100 back. This assures that the co-op provides expectional service and the customer gets what they want. It is a business to provide the community a good or service they require.

It is one of the largest growing sectors in the retail industry. Worldwide over 750 Million people are members of a cooperative business.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all own a fish store?

We we can through a LFS co-op.

Let me know if anyone would like an explanation of how this would work in the fish industry.

 

[Anonymous]

I would like an explanation of how this would work in the fish industry. What happens if tyhe business loses money? Who funds the start up capitol? What is your estimate for the startup costs of a decent LFS?

 

[dizzy]

My initial thoughts are that there ain't no way you could make it work. Splitting the cherries would lead to problems as would loses. To be perfectly honest I think many lfs owners currently work for about as little pay as anyone else would, so I just don't see how you could save anything. But by all means feel free to go ahead and give it your best shot. Good luck.

 

[FragMaster]

I truely believe this would turn out to be the Enron of the Live fish business.

 

[Kalkbreath]

What would make it fail, is that the co op members would want a say in the pricing and profit margin. They would vote themselves largess and profit margin would be too low to over come the unforeseen expenses.( kinda like what every new LSF owner experiences! :wink: )
If the business began to fail many would want a refund rather then vote to increase store prices.
Where exactly would the refund money come from if the business wasn't making any?
Also getting 1500 people to fork over 100 bucks cash in a store thats not up and running is difficult at best.
This idea might work for an existing owner who wants out......though :wink:

 

[JennM]

Then you'd have too many chiefs and not enough indians...

Jeff is right (OMG I find myself agreeing with him again - somebody alert the media!)... it takes a lot of money to get one up and running and especially in this area we've all seen the latest LFS startup vowing to be the cheapest, chanting their mantra that "local hobbyists have been screwed long enough" and they fly onto the scene with bargain basement prices, only to find within the first 6-12 months that they'd either better raise them to make ends meet, or they go out of business completely once the vultures have raped them for the cheap clownfish and salt and then gone somewhere else when the next wannabe beats their price by a nickel.

I've seen both - seen them go under, OR I've seen the previously cheapest stores in town become among the most expensive - as a matter of survival.

A lot of hobbyists go into the biz for the love of the hobby, but how many actually know how to run a business? I've seen that too. In fact I worked for one. The owner knew SO much about husbandry and compatibility and he would have done well IF he'd known how to administer a business - but he didn't, and he didn't want to hear it from those who do have business sense so an otherwise good store went belly up for no reason other than bad management.

It takes a combination of a love of the hobby, knowledge of the hobby and experience in it, as well as a firm foundation in business sense. A store won't succeed without all of these.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

I'm a member of an electric co-op and I can assure you that I have NEVER received a profit share at the end of the year. It cost me $160. to sign up (I didn't have a choice when it came to electric service companys) 14yrs ago. I have never received a discount for using alot of electricity (totaly electic home) nor did I receive a bargain when I had to get an addition line ran to my commercial building in the back yard which btw cost me $200. I also have the pleasure of paying peoples salaries for "administring" my co-op $$$. So??? Where is the benifit of being in a co-op?

 

[Anonymous]

Splitting the cherries would lead to problems as would loses.

Which "cherries" are you referring to exactly? - Splitting any profit or the cherry picked corals??

Let me guess.. - Your answer is "Yes"??
:lol: Mine would be!

 

[JT]

The boys at WORLD OF FISH are not taking care of business up there?

You mean the World of Flush? I lived in MSP for 12 years, that was the worse store in town back then. I doubt much has changed.

- Uncle Pisser

 

[naesco]

World of Fish......

My comments are just my personal experience and are my own opinion.

Additonally, as with other private retailers, there job is to make a profit, so I feel that the information is not always under the best intentions. I am quite certain that if a dozen experinced aquarists could get together with the help of 500 hobbists they could create a lfs that served the customers much better.

And you think that a group of hobbiests/store owners won't be in it to make a profit??? No one goes into anything with out the PROFIT formost in their minds.

I think the idea of a co-operative lfs is an excellent idea wherever service by the private sector is lacking.
A co operative provides member ownership, equal opportunity, and a share in the profits of the store workers who no doubt would also share.
Princing would expect to be lower as the urge to gouge would be replaced by the common good.
Cooperatives could join with others throughout the United States to form a buying group and set up there member owned wholesalers.
All would benefit from the good work of both workers and members

 

[FragMaster]

In a perfect world that would go over BIG!
I just dont see it happening in the LFS industry.

 

[naesco]

In a perfect world that would go over BIG!
I just dont see it happening in the LFS industry.

It has already in a small way.

Reefers, unhappy with the quality and extremely high prices charged by online stores and lfs have taken a shine to fragging and sharing/selling /trading their frags.
At the same time they sell their unused equipment and upgrade their tanks from those who who are upgrading themselves.
Rock, sand and critters are traded and sold daily.

This new and booming industry is better for the reefs and the environments

 

[Anonymous]

In a perfect world that would go over BIG!
I just dont see it happening in the LFS industry.

It has already in a small way.

Reefers, unhappy with the quality and extremely high prices charged by online stores and lfs have taken a shine to fragging and sharing/selling /trading their frags.
At the same time they sell their unused equipment and upgrade their tanks from those who who are upgrading themselves.
Rock, sand and critters are traded and sold daily.

This new and booming industry is better for the reefs and the environments

really? how so?