ABSOLUTLY DISGUSTING!!!!

[FragMaster]

BOYCOTT THESE JERKS FOR ALL YOUR WORTH AND SPREAD THE WORD ABROAD !!! PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! TELL EVERY ONE YOU COME INTO CONTACT WITH NOT TO BUY FROM THESE GUYS!!!
The total irresposebility of the owner/s to introduce such a thing it outlandish at best.
http://ricordeas.net/package.htm

By doing this they are effectively teaching people how to rape the reef!
Not to mention it is ILLEGAL TO CHARTER A CORAL COLLECTING EXPEDITION IN FLORIDA WATERS, ESPECIALY FOR RICORDIA!!!!

I already know what some one is going to argue on this "whats the differnce in comercial collecting and this?"
A: Comercial collecting is HEAVILY regulated and dose not allow all you can carry per person onboard.
B: This effectively state to anyone who see's thier add "it is ok to rape the reef and we will show you how!".

 

[bookfish]

While I agree the tone of their ad could be better, the odds are they are collecting within their legal permit limit and within the law. Do you know how much legal ricordia one permit holder is allowed to collect per day/week/month? I actually think your issue may be either with the idea that non-professional collectors may be collecting, or that the quota limits (if any) are set too high. BTW, I've worked in Florida marine wholesaling and calling some of the collectors in the keys professionals is a bit of a stretch anyway.

 

[FragMaster]

No my issue is exactly as I stated it. They are teaching people how to rape the reef,and supplying them with an onsite lesson. No where in the keys or other wise have I ever heard of a diving trip lead by professionals leading to collecting "all you can carry in legal coral".
The issues are the raping of the reef, and the morality of this whole thing.
Period.
Why would I care that a none-professional is collecting?
I live in Ohio dude. No reefs here and I dont collect for wholesale.
I am not worried about federal regulations being set to high.
I am worried about a company teaching people it is ok to rape the reef by offering somthing like this in the1 st place, and then saying they promote the protection of reefs, condem the ilegaltaking of coral, as well as propogation of ricordea on thier web site.
See any conflicting actions here yet?

 

[Kalkbreath]

Be sure to bring a GPS in your pocket, to mark all the secrete collecting locations! That way you can go rent a boat and come back by yourself to collect more Ricordea !
[to recoup the two-thousand bucks you spent on the first six polyps!] :wink:

Oh., and like Doc. Ruth says.........its always better to have too many condoms, then not enough when raping the reefs. [plus they make nice water tight ricordea containers]:wink:

 

[bookfish]

I see. Do you sell wild corals btw? Wild ricordea? Have you ever seen how the "professionals' in Florida collect ricordea?
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to understand what your perspective is based on.
Thx-Jim

 

[FragMaster]

thats another shadey point with this whole thing.
All spots they go are to be kept "secret". no cellphones,cameras, video recorders,or GPS equipment allowed.
I totaly understand the GPS. for obvious reasons.
But cameras? video recorders?
Because they dont want any evidence of what they have done on film or other wise. Thats why you sign the release,thats why the location is secret,and thats why this hole thing is the biggest f-up to every be introuduced in to this hobby.

Every body who collects down there knows where the hot spots are.
They are all like family and stick to gether VERY tightly.
But that dosent mean they will let you know where to get the realy good stuff by any means. That would be stupid by any standard,and ruin your business.
That being said do you realy think these people are taking them to a "secret location"? Not.
They just dont want any one having proof of the exact location they tore the f-up or proof on film they did it.
TOTALY DISGUSTING.
They should be shut down.


Hey everybody I know where we can go and take as much stuff from the ocean as we want to ,any time we want to! Yeah!!! Nah dont worry about it ! It will always be there!
That is pretty much what they are saying and doing in my book.

 

[FragMaster]

Bookfish:
yes I do but that is niether here no there with this issue.
Has nothing to do with the imorality of this act.
The fact that I sell ricordea ( PROPOGATED ric's and wild collected (youhave to start your stock from somthing)) has nothing to do with this. Like I said guy, I live in Ohio.
Not on the reef.
Also I only do it to support my hobby. Not as a source of income.
If I did it as a source of income I would charge $45 per polyp for an orange ric like they do. Have my own website,and a store front.

 

[bookfish]

"Hey everybody I know where we can go and take as much stuff from the ocean as we want to ,any time we want to! Yeah!!! Nah dont worry about it ! It will always be there!
That is pretty much what they are saying and doing in my book."

Frankly, that's a fair characterization of the history of our industry. I think that you should immediately report them to Florida fish and game, if all you are saying is true, which has far more impact than posting on RDO.
BTW, I've seen some of these "family" of Florida ricordea collectors hold shotguns to each others heads, but that's a whole different story. I don't disagree with your sentiment btw, but I think you're slinging a lot of assumptions without any actual facts. Perhaps you will call them and ask why they don't allow recording devices and what the waiver is for and then report back?-Jim

 

[bookfish]

Also, does anyone know the actual legal quota for ricordea floridae collecting?

 

[FragMaster]

I have already sent the link to The FWC AND emailed the site owners with MANY questions.
"Your question has been received. You should expect a response from the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission shortly.


View your question here.


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Customer (Duane Johnson) 02/25/2006 01:45 AM
Please take a look at what local Florida LFS is getting ready to do.
I find this act DISGUSTINGLY REPREHENSIBLE!
Somthing should be done about this. This is effectively telling people " It is ok to rape the reef and we will show you how if you pay us!"
They are offering an "all you can carry colection excursion" under the guise of a normal fishing expedition (IN THIER OWN WORDS ON THIER OWN WEBSITE!!) I know MANY honest hard working people in Florida that collect coral ,and fish LEGALY as a soul source of income.
Things like this if left unchecked will not only destroy the hobby,and industry, but the reef its self!
http://ricordeas.net/package.htm
Please get back to me on this, reguarding legality and current Laws.
Sincerely,
Duane Johnson
Cincinnati Ohio "

 

[FragMaster]

I will have an actual number by tomorow night I promise.
My best friend collects legaly and has for 15 years. I will ask him.
I will also find out when I get a reply from the FWCC as well I am sure.
I have met Kiki personaly 5-6 times while collecting with my buddy in Florida, our kids even played with her kids on the beach. (the owner of Ricordeas.net). While not an unlikable person ( nice personality on the surface), her business practices leave alot to be desired in my own opinion. SO it is NOT based souly on what I have read on thier site.
It is knowing the owner personaly,and having seen experinced it 1st hand.
BTW some of the victims of the worst crimes in history were the victims of thier own family. My point was only that they all share info with each other in hopes of protecting what they do from federall take over, and so the other peson might let them know where they can find what they are looking for.

 

[bookfish]

Bookfish:
yes I do but that is niether here no there with this issue.
Has nothing to do with the imorality of this act.
The fact that I sell ricordea ( PROPOGATED ric's and wild collected (youhave to start your stock from somthing)) has nothing to do with this. Like I said guy, I live in Ohio.
Not on the reef.
Also I only do it to support my hobby. Not as a source of income.
If I did it as a source of income I would charge $45 per polyp for an orange ric like they do. Have my own website,and a store front.

Well, I fail to see the difference between what you are doing and what they are doing. Both of you are removing wildstock from the reef and unless you personally watched your stuff collected, i'd speculate that the professional divers who collected it were even less gentle with the surrounding reef than a bunch of hobbyists. This is just my personal opinion and BTW, Dude, I do live on the reef.-Jim

 

[FragMaster]

read my editted post above yours. I did it while you were posting I think?

there is a HUGE difference. The differences are MANY.
For instance, knowing what is legal and illegal to take,knowing how to harvest it with out damaging the reef. (if they left it all messed up they would be fined or locked up man,come on.. theyhave GPS systems that hold locked plot points in memory so the coast guard, or who ever can track them to see where they have been specificly for this reason.
They file logs,you name it they have to do it,and eport it in Florida if they are an above board operation.) Knowing NOT to take whole colonies,and when to harvest them, How to "hover" and not step on the reef while collecting, knowing what areas itis illegal to take from or near.
Thats why it is regulated.
Thats why they all have Liscenses to collect comercialy, they are watched like hawks by board patrol, coast guard,and other FWCC members and agencies. To REGULATE what has been taken,and what is being taken as a whole.

The difference between what I do and what they do are HUGE as well.
I propogate most of what I sell. they prop. ZILCH.
(yes including my buddy I get broodstock from)

BTW since you live on the reef you should be more P'oed about it then I am. I stated I dont live on the reef so you would get this idea that I do the same thing out of your head. I cant go out my backdoor and start collecting for resale.

 

[bookfish]

"BTW since you live on the reef you should be more P'oed about it then I am. I stated I dont live on the reef so you would get this idea that I do the same thing out of your head. I cant go out my backdoor and start collecting for resale."

That's not what was in my head. More like something about a PETA member enjoying a steak because they don't have to see the cow butchered themselves. :roll:

 

[JT]

This isn't the first time ricordeas.net has been called to this forum for unethical practices. Do a search.

- Uncle JT

 

[spawner]

---Come this Summer to Collect your own Ricordeas and much more in the crystal clear blue waters of the Ricordea Haven Natural Habitat.
Board our boat and join the Ricordeas.net team of divers on a professional Marine Life Harvesting Expedition in the amazing Florida Keys, and take home all you can collect in a day! ----

Don't you wish it was really crystal clear down their. More like a murky fog 90% of the time.

 

[treeman]

I am not a collector but I buy from collectors all the time. There is no daily limit on ricordias for commercially licensed entities. If you are not happy about that you should put pressure on the people that make the laws to change them. Change the laws that let them take people out and collect under their permit. If you buy a recreational saltwater fishing license you are allowed to keep 20 pieces a day max (that is 20 polyps a day)

The reason to not let any phones, cameras etc is so their commercial friends don't send one of their own on the boat to call them when they hit the secret spot or take pictures to triangulate form landmarks.

Family my arse! If I mentioned certian names to another one he would not sell to me any more. Keep my mouth shut

"For instance, knowing what is legal and illegal to take,knowing how to harvest it with out damaging the reef. (if they left it all messed up they would be fined or locked up man,come on.. theyhave GPS systems that hold locked plot points in memory so the coast guard, or who ever can track them to see where they have been specificly for this reason.
They file logs,you name it they have to do it,and eport it in Florida if they are an above board operation.) Knowing NOT to take whole colonies,and when to harvest them, How to "hover" and not step on the reef while collecting, knowing what areas itis illegal to take from or near.
Thats why it is regulated.
Thats why they all have Liscenses to collect comercialy, they are watched like hawks by board patrol, coast guard,and other FWCC members and agencies. To REGULATE what has been taken,and what is being taken as a whole"

They are so unwatched it is crazy. They fill out a trip ticket for what and where and how (ie: oceanside, 20', scuba) and they state what they harvested

 

[naesco]

Wake up!!!!!
Don't you understand what Frag is saying!!!!! :roll:

When you have losers in the industry it impacts on all of you in the industry!

Stand up and be counted! When there is a wrong, right it!!!


Bookfish posted
"Frankly, that's a fair characterization of the history of our industry. I think that you should immediately report them to Florida fish and game, if all you are saying is true, which has far more impact than posting on RDO."

Bookfish, moderate!

 

[FragMaster]

Thanks Fella' !

 

[treeman]

You don't understand what I said. They are within the limits of the law from what I can see. Doesn't that tell you that something is wrong! Put pressure on the lawmakers not just here or even the FWC. The FWC only enforces the laws that others make.