US Government to prohibit cyanide use and begin enforcement

[naesco]

Here is a precis of the US Coral Task Force Resolution dated May 4, 2006.

1.There is an urgent need for cyanide detection tests

2. Tests would allow the US to apply the Lacey Act to suspected illegal imports. (The Lacey Act sets to imprison those in industry who know or ought to have known they are dealing with cyanide caught fish)

3. Cyanide use is widespread driven by a lucrative unregulated trade.

4. Most reef fish imported into the US are collected with the use of cyanide.

So let me summarize this for you.

The government is now involved in regulating the import of fish. Cyanide testing will be mandatory and they are prepared to send you to gaol if you knew or ought to have known that the fish you are dealing was caught with cyanide.

Do I detect nervous laughter?

 

[naesco]

Here is the web address that will allow you to read the whole resolution.

http://www.coralreef.gov/taskforce/pdf/15-1_Cyanide.pdf


Gresham and Jenn have read this resolution and think it is a laughing matter. Do you?

Marillion (Nero) has read this resolution and thinks nothing is go to happen. Do you?
Marillion posts
""I'm getting a little tired of this same stuff from you, Wayne. You seem to use a lot of words and yet say nothing.
Cyanide was first addressed over 25 years ago, and the hobby is still here and growing every day.
Your 'doom and gloom' prophecies mean nothing. It's all just hot air.
Why not follow Jenn's lead and actually *do* something?
Peace,
Chip ""

 

[dizzy]

Even more concerning is the fact that Dr. Andy Bruckner and the US government think the importers have been under reporting, ( by half) to make up for cuts in CITES quotas. If true this will be rectified and the supply cut in half. The Case bill will further reduce supply if passed. That was a Holthus come to Jesus or else, message. The ironic thing is that if JT can be believed then it probably is true, and some of the MAC certified importers were the worst offenders. I guess the MAC certification buys them absolution. First they sell us out to the dropshippers, now they bring the wrath of the government to bear on the industry, by lying and cheating. Thanks guys. :evil:

 

[Anonymous]

Here is the web address that will allow you to read the whole resolution.

http://www.coralreef.gov/taskforce/pdf/15-1_Cyanide.pdf


Gresham and Jenn have read this resolution and think it is a laughing matter. Do you?

Marillion (Nero) has read this resolution and thinks nothing is go to happen. Do you?
Marillion posts
""I'm getting a little tired of this same stuff from you, Wayne. You seem to use a lot of words and yet say nothing.
Cyanide was first addressed over 25 years ago, and the hobby is still here and growing every day.
Your 'doom and gloom' prophecies mean nothing. It's all just hot air.
Why not follow Jenn's lead and actually *do* something?
Peace,
Chip ""

You just don't get it. It's not a "will happen now" thing, it's like a call before the call for possiable action. Do you understand how our government works? They don't even have a team in place that will pick a team that will lead up the search for a possiable CDT. We're talking years, just like many predicted when MAC first came around.


And could you please figure out how to post a simple quote after your years of posting here? See this bracket [ ? Now add quote and close it with] enter your quote and repeat, but this time add a / before the quote, but after the [ , like this [/quote] PhBB code is a snap, once you've seen it for years

 

[Caterham]

Naesco,

For those who are following this post, it might be a good idea for you to explain your personal involvement in the trade of marine ornamentals.

Do you see or suspect cyanide caught fishes in your weekly imports?

Which exporters do you use and why?

Many thanks in advance for your reply. Notice that I use the word "reply" because that is all I suspect that it will be. The questions are sure to be danced around and left unanswered.

 

[JennM]

Gresham and Jenn have read this resolution and think it is a laughing matter.

Know what, Wayne? The only laughing matter I find in all this is YOU.

Know what else? I'm not afraid of a CDT - in fact, bring it on! Then I'll be glad of the supply resources I have in place, because all the juice-buyers will be looking for new ones IF this ever comes to pass (and it's a big IF).

A CDT in place isn't going to eliminate all the imported fish, and PI and Indo aren't the only places that fish come from for the trade. You'd like us to think that this would put an abrupt halt to the trade?

There's way too much money tied up in it at every level for a government to just stop it all - think of all the taxes, customs revenues they'd lose, not to mention the loss of jobs - unemployment, welfare.... the same reason we'll never see socialized healthcare in this country ... money talks and bullcrap walks.

I'd like to see you answer Caterham's question one of these days. I already know what the answer is, but just once I'd like to hear it from the horse's mouth.

Maybe I should put on my tinfoil hat.... the Gamma rays are beginning to get to me in here....

Jenn

 

[clarionreef]

It really says;
4. Most reef fish imported into the US are collected with the use of cyanide.
wow!

The word most is a dated reference and defines the questionable and anecdotal information trail the USCRTF has followed.
Most fish are no longer collected with poison.
Plenty are ....and in specific regions especially but most entering the US?

Beginning with an inaccurate premise tweaks the rest of the equation, does it not?
The truth is strong enough to support a call for genuine and honest action. We do not need to embellish it with gossip that becomes like urban eco-legend.

I make this post as a source of far more credibility then that which interfaces with the USCRTF. They need to get out more and listen to people in current realities. Since they have not done that...their credibility is in question....or perhaps they just consume old information with a lag time of years.
Steve
PS. Besides...I made it all up...remember?

 

[naesco]

I don't disagree with your intentions, Wayne, but your "Do it or else" attitude wearies me. You aren't the international authority on the hobby or the trade, so what makes YOU the voice of doom? You've been spewing the same rhetoric over and over for the last several years, and despite teasing us with 'big announcements' that never come, and your incessant postings about a trade you have no knowledge about, erode your credibility each time you put your fingers on the keyboard here.

I'm in a far more likely position to 'do anything' about it than you are, and I'm clever enough to know that I'm just a little fish in a big pond. But I'm also clever enough to know that if enough of us little fishes do the right thing, change will come about without the need for NGOs, governments or folks like you, trying to intervene in a trade you don't even work in.

If you really want to "do something" how about getting your facts straight, and educating hobbyists and retailers?

Jenn

Jenn, sorry but this was the big announcment.
The days of trolling the reefs for cyanide fish and the damage cyanide causes to the reef and the critters that live thereon are numbered.

The Government is involved now. What do you think the results will be?

And yes Chip and Jenn. I have taken your good advice.

I have done something.

Wayne

 

[clarionreef]

The challenge is for Filipinos and Indonesians to finish converting to nets before the issue becomes a foreign business and self serving money train.
The institutionalization of reform verbage will not reach the fisherman so much as the grant seekers, white elephant handlers, boondoggle managers, project whores and 5 year program cons.
Steve
alas...
If I had 1 /100 of the budget that will be wasted, I could put together a team, train the divers ahead of time and erase the problem before the foreign cure arrived.
500 k will do it. Serious, All of Indo and the Philippines.Any takers?

 

[JennM]

I don't disagree with your intentions, Wayne, but your "Do it or else" attitude wearies me. You aren't the international authority on the hobby or the trade, so what makes YOU the voice of doom? You've been spewing the same rhetoric over and over for the last several years, and despite teasing us with 'big announcements' that never come, and your incessant postings about a trade you have no knowledge about, erode your credibility each time you put your fingers on the keyboard here.

I'm in a far more likely position to 'do anything' about it than you are, and I'm clever enough to know that I'm just a little fish in a big pond. But I'm also clever enough to know that if enough of us little fishes do the right thing, change will come about without the need for NGOs, governments or folks like you, trying to intervene in a trade you don't even work in.

If you really want to "do something" how about getting your facts straight, and educating hobbyists and retailers?

Jenn

Jenn, sorry but this was the big announcment.
The days of trolling the reefs for cyanide fish and the damage cyanide causes to the reef and the critters that live thereon are numbered.

The Government is involved now. What do you think the results will be?

And yes Chip and Jenn. I have taken your good advice.

I have done something.

Wayne

Just what have you *done*? You copied and pasted a paper from a meeting in May from an organization you don't belong to. And now you're acting like you are personally going to bring the hammer down on a trade you still have no real clue about.

Or did I miss something?

Seems that 'your' big announcement isn't even yours - it's somebody else's. Gee how did I know not to pin any big expectations on that? :roll:

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

If I had 1 /100 of the budget that will be wasted, I could put together a team, train the divers ahead of time and erase the problem before the foreign cure arrived.

I beg to differ, I just don't think that you can fully trust everyone to stay clean after a 12 step program. - Even if they volunteered for it in the first place.

Sadly, random drug testing, while a real PITA, is really the only way to be somewhat assured IMO.

Personally, I hope they get a solid CDT in place ASAP.

 

[Anonymous]

...and Caterham's post with questions was ignored, as usual.

Wayne, could you please answer Caterham's questions? There are several people here who would like that information.

Thanks.

Peace,

Chip

 

[clarionreef]

cortez marine wrote:
If I had 1 /100 of the budget that will be wasted, I could put together a team, train the divers ahead of time and erase the problem before the foreign cure arrived.
Then he writes;
"I beg to differ, I just don't think that you can fully trust everyone to stay clean after a 12 step program. - Even if they volunteered for it in the first place."

Ahhh,
But your statement is based on recent history.

If you train em poorly...
with poor methods ,
inexperienced trainers
and "substitute" netting to save a few dollars for the office budget...
of course you will get the predictable result.
Then with this in place....you beg to differ and wonder if you can trust em?

Many folks here are like the poor Filipino divers who have never seen a healthy coral reef. You form opinion on an assumption and a history of failure...and then speculate.
When divers get to work in Tonga where there are real coral reefs...they are amazed. Only their fathers saw such good, living coral cover.
You need to see the real thing first....then you have a basis for comparison.
Why is it that the South Pacific runs largely on Filipino divers? Because they are so good at net collecting when you get them away from the cyanide system and the NGOs that help perpetuate it.
Enlightened free enterprise is 10 X more effective in converting these guys to netsmanship then the poor options served to you by the current crop of inept, money grubbing "non profit" reformers.
Steve

 

[WayneSallee]

Marillion, unless industry takes cyanide seriously, the future of the whole hobby is at stake. There are many who think we have no business taking wild fish and coral out of the already damaged reefs and putting them in little glass boxes.
Cyanide, industry's dirty little secret, must be immediately addressed by industry or the party's over

I'm getting a little tired of this same stuff from you, Wayne. You seem to use a lot of words and yet say nothing.

Cyanide was first addressed over 25 years ago, and the hobby is still here and growing every day.

Your 'doom and gloom' prophecies mean nothing. It's all just hot air.

Why not follow Jenn's lead and actually *do* something?

Peace,

Chip

I don't even read naesco's posts anymore. When I see his Avatar, I just skip to the next person. :roll:

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
[email protected]

 

[Anonymous]

See this bracket [ ? Now add quote and close it with] enter your quote and repeat, but this time add a / before the quote, but after the [ , like this

PhBB code is a snap, once you've seen it for years [/quote]

That was a whole lot of explaining Gresham.

Just write quotes like this:

blahblahblah

And it will appear like this:

blahblahblah

Want to quote a specific person? Do this:

blahblahblah

And it shows up like this:

blahblahblah

 

[naesco]

See this bracket [ ? Now add quote and close it with] enter your quote and repeat, but this time add a / before the quote, but after the [ , like this

PhBB code is a snap, once you've seen it for years

That was a whole lot of explaining Gresham.

Just write quotes like this:

blahblahblah

And it will appear like this:

blahblahblah

Want to quote a specific person? Do this:

blahblahblah

And it shows up like this:

blahblahblah

[/quote]

Thanks Matt.
Could you please send me a pm so I can save it
Wayne

 

[Anonymous]

See this bracket [ ? Now add quote and close it with] enter your quote and repeat, but this time add a / before the quote, but after the [ , like this

PhBB code is a snap, once you've seen it for years

That was a whole lot of explaining Gresham.

Just write quotes like this:

blahblahblah

And it will appear like this:

blahblahblah

Want to quote a specific person? Do this:

blahblahblah

And it shows up like this:

blahblahblah

Thanks Matt.
Could you please send me a pm so I can save it
Wayne[/quote]

You can cut and paste that into a pm yourself and send it to yourself.

 

[Kalkbreath]

I think Thales needs a week off for telling Naesco to "Paste himself"
8O

 

[clarionreef]

May I quote myself?

"Enlightened free enterprise is 10 X more effective in converting these guys to netsmanship then the poor options served to you by the current crop of inept, money grubbing "non profit" reformers. "

Accidently , thats the most important point I have ever made.
Sure its a shame the industry in general never did much about it before.
I think we all agree on that.
" The industry has been criticized by groups that also didn't do much.
And in fact...have sold out to the larger player/offenders in order to fit in.
The real tragedy is how these newbies alienated every bonafide reform spirited dealer in the industry from the beginning out of envy and jealousy.

How can we be the saviors of this easy fix if others are and have already been doing constructive things? They shoved the reform wing of the trade aside and rushed straight to the money pot.
The fact that the twin cyanide cartels of Indo and Manila signed on early [with the bogus letter of commitment tongue in cheek-fingers crossed gambit] tells you something right away.
Oh well...but thats the MAC obituary.
They will fade and be made obsolete.
Today, some more enlightened importers are taking responsibility to new levels and pressuring for changes in protocols, policies and procedures that enable and build on reform goals.
The newer developments are unknown to people who only learn from the information we provide to them here. In real business one may not want to reveal trade secrets and 'troop movements' in knee-jerk fashion to all.
Or at least not til the reforms take hold.

The vertical integration that we can achieve thru greater involvement and partnership gives us more right and say-so then ever before in how fishes are collected.
Americans own more now then ever before in foreign export businesses and are more able to push thru the kinds of reforms that befuddled the non involved, office culture of aquarium reform pretenders.

The incentive for new business models in Bali, The Philippines, Tonga, Vanuatu etc. has been to produce better fishes for hardiness and survival...and to excell in marketing based on that.
It follows that net catching is the obvious road to take and that local 'old foggies' let the Yanks do their thing and promote net collecting.
The ground is beggining to shift and old traditions are weakening.
Defense for the old way is hardly made now in company of others.
Cultures change...and are in flux.
New officials have new ideas and the corrupt old bastards that committed treason aginst their own countries interests are finally dying off.
The rate of change can improve a lot to be sure...and thats what we were supposed to help out with more.
Phoney trainings and rich foreign groups that took care of themselves mostly did not help. But progress still goes on.
I know we will get there. The question is with how much collateral damage in the mean time...and thats a factor of time.
Do we squander it or pick up the pace?


Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Yah may quote yourself Steve, but you have to use the technology we laid out above :lol:


Thanks Matt, your a better teacher then I :lol: