I like Steve
- Thread starter naesco
- Start date
Why is Race no longer welcome on this forum?
After reading all these threads this morning it seems to me that while some of his behaviour was getting a bit "Craaaazy" its not like it was that bad.
Has he been banned?
Telling someone they are not welcome here really goes against my image of RDO.
After reading all these threads this morning it seems to me that while some of his behaviour was getting a bit "Craaaazy" its not like it was that bad.
Has he been banned?
Telling someone they are not welcome here really goes against my image of RDO.
Race just showed us he's human. I would have thought all the success and money he has made would have insulated him from taking things too personal. He takes business from all of us retailers and yet he cannot understand why we do not love him for doing it. It's really nothing personal at all. It more of a conflict between two business models. By all accounts Race is winning.
aquaticvet1":2x6k93oe said:
LOL, I particularly like this comment. Isn't this the exact same thing Race himself was doing in all the other threads where he got his ads out? Interjecting without providing an answer.
At any rate, it's in his best interest to take it to RC cause there he can have anyone who disagrees with him banned. Judging by recent behavior, I believe that's exactly what he's looking for. LOL as if a conversation that goes on here would EVER be allowed to take place there.
I figured I add an answer to Race's question in an effor to keep the thread on topic. I wasn't aware of this before, but as I understand it now, this is how retail stores get their fish.
The fish come into this country from all the different ports of entry, where you then inspect each and every fish Race. Then after inspection you select which fish you like and which fish you don't. The fish you don't are then released to wholesalers. Then the retailers call the wholesalers to see what the good doctors have released for fish that week and they fight hiney holes to elbows to get the leftover pickings from you.
How accurate is my grasp of the concept as you explained it before?
The fish come into this country from all the different ports of entry, where you then inspect each and every fish Race. Then after inspection you select which fish you like and which fish you don't. The fish you don't are then released to wholesalers. Then the retailers call the wholesalers to see what the good doctors have released for fish that week and they fight hiney holes to elbows to get the leftover pickings from you.
How accurate is my grasp of the concept as you explained it before?
clarionreef
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Good morning folks,
Did I miss anything?
Steve
Did I miss anything?
Steve
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Unlike wholesalers....Reeee-tailers get to sleep in more...
and E-tailers are up all nite it would appear!
Steve
and E-tailers are up all nite it would appear!
Steve
Race,
Retailers mostly get their fish via the domestic airlines...not the mail. It's very cost prohibited to ship door to door, and with the larger volume of boxes that a retailer purchases each week. Only etailers use mail and door to door services to ship their fish at a higher cost, which gives back some of the price advantages that the store had lost to low prices offered to the public.
It's no crime to sell directly to the public, but when a large mail order company buys from a manufacturer, at distributor pricing, and then cuts out the profit margin of the wholesaler/distributor, it undermines the whole "traditonal" chain of command and cuts the throats of the retailers that support the hobby.
I never understood why manufactures have "SOLD OUT" to the etailers. It's not that impressive to me that an etailer can be successful and out sell a traditional wholesaler when they are selling to the public for basically wholesale prices. What is the challenge in doing that? It would be more impressive if business like yours (Race) could be just as successful selling at true retail pricing! But there are too many companies like Fosters and Smith that are doing the same thing, so I want to point out that it's not only one company doing this....and it's an easy business model to realize profits when you are easily cutting out the middle man that the hobby so desperately needs.
The original idea of etailing was thought to be a way to reach the hobbyists in remote areas that didn't have local fish stores to purchase from. But I think the hobbyists have seen the dollars to be saved, and the variety they can now find, so it's really a combination of the hobbyist sell out and the Manufactures too. I hope this isn't the demise of the local pet stores....as that truly would be the dagger to the heart of the hobby.
I don't think there's any stopping it, but we surely don't support manufactures that sell to etailers at the same pricing as a distributor. I would advice retailers not to carry products from "sell-out" manufactures that don't support the local distributors, and give "correct" pricing to etailers with an unfair advantage over the retail store. Retailers should do more private labeling and look for those manufactures that have not "sold out".
Just my friendly thoughts.....
Eric
Retailers mostly get their fish via the domestic airlines...not the mail. It's very cost prohibited to ship door to door, and with the larger volume of boxes that a retailer purchases each week. Only etailers use mail and door to door services to ship their fish at a higher cost, which gives back some of the price advantages that the store had lost to low prices offered to the public.
It's no crime to sell directly to the public, but when a large mail order company buys from a manufacturer, at distributor pricing, and then cuts out the profit margin of the wholesaler/distributor, it undermines the whole "traditonal" chain of command and cuts the throats of the retailers that support the hobby.
I never understood why manufactures have "SOLD OUT" to the etailers. It's not that impressive to me that an etailer can be successful and out sell a traditional wholesaler when they are selling to the public for basically wholesale prices. What is the challenge in doing that? It would be more impressive if business like yours (Race) could be just as successful selling at true retail pricing! But there are too many companies like Fosters and Smith that are doing the same thing, so I want to point out that it's not only one company doing this....and it's an easy business model to realize profits when you are easily cutting out the middle man that the hobby so desperately needs.
The original idea of etailing was thought to be a way to reach the hobbyists in remote areas that didn't have local fish stores to purchase from. But I think the hobbyists have seen the dollars to be saved, and the variety they can now find, so it's really a combination of the hobbyist sell out and the Manufactures too. I hope this isn't the demise of the local pet stores....as that truly would be the dagger to the heart of the hobby.
I don't think there's any stopping it, but we surely don't support manufactures that sell to etailers at the same pricing as a distributor. I would advice retailers not to carry products from "sell-out" manufactures that don't support the local distributors, and give "correct" pricing to etailers with an unfair advantage over the retail store. Retailers should do more private labeling and look for those manufactures that have not "sold out".
Just my friendly thoughts.....
Eric
Eric,
What if you have an aquacultured product that the wholesalers will not buy because they can buy the wild version cheaper. What does the aquaculture producer do? Have aquaculture producers "sold out" by selling directly to stores? Have collectors in the Florida Keys "sold out" by selling directly to stores and hobbyist? They don't do that to undercut anyone, they do it to stay in business. It's a known fact that the big boys will always buy wild animals at a cheaper price instead of buying aquacultured animals at a higher price. Notice what happens when a fish is aquacultured the wild price drops and drops and drops.
So what are hobbyists suppose to do about this? Stop buying fish from ORA because they directly sell form the store? Is one of the larger exporters from the Florida Keys to 104th street suddenly going to stop seeing his large wholesale orders drop because he sells to LFS and Hobbyists as well?
You bring up a great point, but I seem to see that you are caught in the same situation.
What if you have an aquacultured product that the wholesalers will not buy because they can buy the wild version cheaper. What does the aquaculture producer do? Have aquaculture producers "sold out" by selling directly to stores? Have collectors in the Florida Keys "sold out" by selling directly to stores and hobbyist? They don't do that to undercut anyone, they do it to stay in business. It's a known fact that the big boys will always buy wild animals at a cheaper price instead of buying aquacultured animals at a higher price. Notice what happens when a fish is aquacultured the wild price drops and drops and drops.
So what are hobbyists suppose to do about this? Stop buying fish from ORA because they directly sell form the store? Is one of the larger exporters from the Florida Keys to 104th street suddenly going to stop seeing his large wholesale orders drop because he sells to LFS and Hobbyists as well?
You bring up a great point, but I seem to see that you are caught in the same situation.
Eric, you make valid points but there's a double-edged sword there too.
It's one thing to not support wholesalers of livestock, who provide dropship services for etailers. More than one vendor can obtain the same types of species. I choose to support those who don't allow cherry-pickers/jobbers, whatever you call them, and those who don't dropship for other entites.
It's a whole other ball game to stop supporting major manufacturers (and perhaps it's an even bigger problem than the livestock end) who sell at distributor cost to etailers. If I cut out every product line that did this I wouldn't have anything left to sell - that or they'd be off-brands, obscure brands or a few high-dollar brands that sell only to retailers. If I choose not to sell a Maxijet powerhead because Race buys them by the truckload for a fraction of the price of my two dozen or so, I lose that market entirely. Fortunately for myself and others there are people who still prefer to shop face to face, even if it costs a bit more. They appreciate the value added in more than just a "money back guarantee"... the support, advice and friendly atmosphere of a retail store still holds value to many.
I wish there was a way for us to group together to make that much stop - but why would a manufacturer stop servicing a client who buys by the truckload, just to appease the mom and pops who buy onesies and twosies from a wholesaler? Doesn't make economic sense.
Jenn
It's one thing to not support wholesalers of livestock, who provide dropship services for etailers. More than one vendor can obtain the same types of species. I choose to support those who don't allow cherry-pickers/jobbers, whatever you call them, and those who don't dropship for other entites.
It's a whole other ball game to stop supporting major manufacturers (and perhaps it's an even bigger problem than the livestock end) who sell at distributor cost to etailers. If I cut out every product line that did this I wouldn't have anything left to sell - that or they'd be off-brands, obscure brands or a few high-dollar brands that sell only to retailers. If I choose not to sell a Maxijet powerhead because Race buys them by the truckload for a fraction of the price of my two dozen or so, I lose that market entirely. Fortunately for myself and others there are people who still prefer to shop face to face, even if it costs a bit more. They appreciate the value added in more than just a "money back guarantee"... the support, advice and friendly atmosphere of a retail store still holds value to many.
I wish there was a way for us to group together to make that much stop - but why would a manufacturer stop servicing a client who buys by the truckload, just to appease the mom and pops who buy onesies and twosies from a wholesaler? Doesn't make economic sense.
Jenn
Spawner,
It's really up to the Aquaculture producer that decides the pricing. Even if the coral farmer wants to sell direct, there are pricing levels that can be taken advantage of. Why would a grower, sell to the dealers or public for the same price. It's all about volume and pricing.
There's nothing wrong with Florida suppliers that ship to stores, and most of the Florida people we order from have different pricing for stores vs. wholesalers. More volume, lower price.
Does ORA sell to the public? I don't think so....maybe I am misreading your post. They sell to the stores and wholesalers....and they offer different pricing. That's all good.
Jenn....
I think each retailer is in a unique situation. Some areas have loyal hobbyists, but others don't and have to look for manufactures that are not sold online at a lower cost. Like articles I have read recently in Pet Industry Magazines, there are many ideas of how a retailer can compete with the online etailer and one way is to do more private labeling and buy brands that are not sold so actively online.
Like I said, I don't think there's any stopping it, and I dont' think it's good for the industry other than providing better prices for hobbyists, and get more people into the hobby that some could previously not afford. Part of what retailers can do is give the service and quality mercandise to win over loyal customers.
I do think that if manufactures that sell to etailers lose the majority of their distributors, then they will be forced to re-look at their sales strategy's. I do not pick up certain products and I make it a point to let them know why, when I refuse their products. OR, I tell them they have to give me an extra 20% or more discount so we can compete with thier online distributors. I know that makes them really happy to hear that!
Regards,
Eric
It's really up to the Aquaculture producer that decides the pricing. Even if the coral farmer wants to sell direct, there are pricing levels that can be taken advantage of. Why would a grower, sell to the dealers or public for the same price. It's all about volume and pricing.
There's nothing wrong with Florida suppliers that ship to stores, and most of the Florida people we order from have different pricing for stores vs. wholesalers. More volume, lower price.
Does ORA sell to the public? I don't think so....maybe I am misreading your post. They sell to the stores and wholesalers....and they offer different pricing. That's all good.
Jenn....
I think each retailer is in a unique situation. Some areas have loyal hobbyists, but others don't and have to look for manufactures that are not sold online at a lower cost. Like articles I have read recently in Pet Industry Magazines, there are many ideas of how a retailer can compete with the online etailer and one way is to do more private labeling and buy brands that are not sold so actively online.
Like I said, I don't think there's any stopping it, and I dont' think it's good for the industry other than providing better prices for hobbyists, and get more people into the hobby that some could previously not afford. Part of what retailers can do is give the service and quality mercandise to win over loyal customers.
I do think that if manufactures that sell to etailers lose the majority of their distributors, then they will be forced to re-look at their sales strategy's. I do not pick up certain products and I make it a point to let them know why, when I refuse their products. OR, I tell them they have to give me an extra 20% or more discount so we can compete with thier online distributors. I know that makes them really happy to hear that!
Regards,
Eric
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