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Anonymous

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vitz":4eyuewr8 said:
owning a reef tank and practicing environmentally responsible energy usage are mutually exclusive

same for anyone who claims to be passionate about reef conservation, and keeps a tank ;)

Its amazing that people don't realize that, and try to justify their tanks based on conservation. People keep a tank because they want a tank - everything else is rationalization IMO. :D
 
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Anonymous

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yes indeedy :)

just one of the reasons i always chuckle internally at the self delusional misguidedness of same-especially characters ala our dear friend from the north side of the north border ;) :P

'garf' comes easily to mind, as well, lol (genetic banking my ass, lol)

one of the funniest groups is that cadre of nincompoops deathbydyeing.org, lol -that raise such a peta like outcry re: dyed fw aquarium fish, all the while helping to support the very practice simply by keeping aquaria, and patronizing an lfs

most people's 'field of vision' in all walks/aspects of life doesn't go past their own noses, everything else is rationalization for the (falsely premised) illusion of moral superiority (like a rich guy handing a bum a quarter to quiet his conscience, heh)

there isn't ONE who's actively involved in this industry who can claim to be a 'moral champion' for the natural resources this ind takes from the wild, while taking those very things themselves for economic gain-
regardless of their publicly spewed out platitudes and rhetoric-nor does the notion that 'once it's taken it's irrelevant to nature anyway' hold any water-if it wouldn't be taken, then it WOULD be relevant to nature-we are not the substitute decision maker for nature's checks and balance system-we don't even understand all the pieces of the puzzle that make the negative feedback cycles work, as complex as they are

now, i, for example, accept that-and deal with it by trying to be as moral a 'villian' as i can be-

but i don't claim to be morally superior vis-a-vis what i help remove from the wild to make a living-

i just try to minimize the suffering of animals due to ignorance of proper husbandry practices that afect the comfort of same (tza'ar baaleh chayim', or kindness to animals, is another of the most highly valued 'good deeds' one can accomplish, according to the OT, heh) and also to help miitigate the effect of said removal by (hopefully) helping to slow down the rate of removal due to decreased need for more stock due to preventable and unnecessary mortality-but i'm still removing the livestock, and 'screwing' nature up because of it, heh

(after all the phrase from the OT 'don't boil the kid in it's mother's milk', -which basically means 'don't add insult to injury', and has nothing to do with not mixing meat and milk :P -is the only edict mentioned 3 times in the OT-it's one of the few precepts i actually like , agree with,and think is a universal axiom) but i hold no self delusion about how what i'm doing affects the world i take those resources from, boh as a salesman, and as a hobbyist

there's only ONE way to truly practice real conservation:

DON'T TAKE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE ! ;)

mitigating the effect by recycling, or lowering losses merely serves to delay the end result, and the very means we use to 'conserve' the livestock in our houses helps to destroy those very animals and environment

you can't cry about oil spills if you use oil-that risk is part and parcel of the bargain you make to use it in the first place-we use oil knowing full well that accidents happen, and it's a risk we accept defacto-we just won't own up to the responsibility de jure;)


all of the folks who are crying about global warming aren't rushing to turn off their tv's, computers, cars, use of plastics, or to enforce the legislation already on the books that would ensure zero pollution emissions in all factory's (we've had both the ability and legislation in place to effectively eliminate ALL smokestack emissions for years-decades, even.)
by the way-i'm an atheist-the OT references just happen to be parts of my inherited social culure i actually like and think make perfect sense ;)

<sumplike rant off>

:P
 
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Anonymous

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In this case, Dizzy, I think the drugs enhanced the post.

Good one, vitz. Good one. :)

Peace,

Chip
 
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Anonymous

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heh i'm just mildly insomniac-ish as i always get before moving- no drugz involved at all :P
 

dizzy

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Ya could of just said reefkeeping environmentalist is an oxymoron. No argument here, the green hobbyist movement is full of self anointed hypocrites. Including many of the popular spokespersons. Good luck with the next leg of your journey.
 

clarionreef

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Mitch is right again;
Perhaps greens in Mexico can show us something interesting.
Only the educated kids of the rich dabble in this cult of esoteric belief and they do it for odd reasons.
It defines them as better then the next guy, sets them apart from the crowd, shows an affinity to the advanced and consumptive civilization to the North...and get this...they actually wear green shirts. :lol:
I think the green actually stands for daddys money and their easier, more leisure filled lifestyle.
After conferences involving them...I found myself wanting to not be considered green anymore. [ maybe blue]
I think I saw too many of the ego-purpose filled motives in them and less of the truly environmental ones. They helped me break free of the cult myself....hence my non knee-jerk alignment with MAC.
Steve
dazed and confused
I also found thru experience that they sure don't like fisherman, farmers and people living close to nature. [Those folks didn't have much money]
 
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Anonymous

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vitz":2r77a8go said:
heh i'm just mildly insomniac-ish as i always get before moving- no drugz involved at all :P

The very best of luck with that Vitz, and since I don't "pray" ;) for people, I'll settle for thinking good thoughts for you every now and then.
 

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