US Coral Reef Task Force Cyanide Enforcement & Detection

[Anonymous]

and under which EXISTING LAW can certification be forced upon anyone?

 

[clarionreef]

Ed Cases bill was not written not by him...
nor will it survive him.
The election is days away and there may be no Ed Case soon.
He is trailing in the polls significantly.
[Senator Dan Akaka may stomp him like a narc at a biker rally.]

This Packard/TNC/MAC inspired and written bill tried to force thru certified fish as the way to insure MACs relevance and get someone to take them seriously beyond their merits.

Failing to meet any targets, train divers, establish a clean fish supply, inspire the trade or anyone who really knows them... they hoped for a shotgun marriage w/ the trade that shuns them.
The attempt to coerce, manipulate and force themselves on us thru legal means simply underscores the poor results they have earned by their own actions...or inactions as it were.


Steve
AKAKA FOR SENATE!!!

 

[Jaime Baquero]

I AGREE AS WELL;
But lets change a word or two;

The "money grubbing lightweight NGOs" have failed to understand and support initiatives put in place during the last two decades to tackle the problem.
The industry has to learn the hard way....and never rely on them again. No excuses.

During the last two decades resources were put in place mainly in the Philippines to "deal" with the cyanide problem due to the fact that CN was contributing to deterioration of coral reefs in that country.

At the same time the same problem was detected in Indonesia, but those NGOs had their hands full trying to find solutions to the problem in the Philippines.

During the last two decades hobbyists, retailers and importers have gotten all the information required to educate themselves about the use of cyanide for fish collection. Most of them have not reacted and do not care about what is happening to the coral reefs, the fish populations and much less to the fish collectors.

Most of importers, retailers and hobbyist do not know that fisherfolks use hooka to go underwater to collect fish, they do not know that when a collector uses hooka, he is getting ENGINE OIL in his lungs, this, with negative consequences to his health. Do they care?

One thing for sure is that they are not willing to pay extra "cents' for the net caught fish "that was collected properly' by a collector that had to use HOOKA to satisfy the demand of this nice industry overseas.

The industry knows about what is happening in Indonesia but has done NOTHING to contribute solving the problem. NGOs didn't put the same resources in that country. Why the industry has not shown leadership to fight this one in Indonesia?

You have been misleading and misinforming people about the situation in the Philippines. NGOs have done a good job in the Philippines, this without the support of the industry. Hundreds of fishcollectors have been trained and as you have stated the Filipino collectors are the best in the world. I agree 100%. That was possible due to the NGOs work. There is more work to be done, think about bringing over something positive to the cause...... it would be benefitial.

As stated before this is a problem that requires more than nets and training. It requieres also the participation of those that do not care .... meaning those that get some kind of benefit from this activity... most of importers, retailers and hobbyists.

 

[clarionreef]

Uh uh,
The cleanest collecting village in The Philippines is in Bolinao Pangasinan.
The local government has been the power here, not any foreign NGO.
THey have shown the way for others to follow.
Bolinao kicks out clean collectors, trainers and divers for hire around the world like no other.
Bolinao boys figure in every exciting start-up station from Saudi, Vanuatu, Tonga and Belize.
It is a veritable prototype of exciting change that can occur from within and from the village up.
The agent of this change was commercial...not faux environmental.

The peoples coral reefs are too important to leave to the whims, the politics and the grant making wheeling and dealing that determines the foreign "commitment" to change.
Filipinos need to change for their own good, their own reasons and with or without permission from the outside world.

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

I AGREE AS WELL;
But lets change a word or two;

The "money grubbing lightweight NGOs" have failed to understand and support initiatives put in place during the last two decades to tackle the problem.
The industry has to learn the hard way....and never rely on them again. No excuses.

During the last two decades resources were put in place mainly in the Philippines to "deal" with the cyanide problem due to the fact that CN was contributing to deterioration of coral reefs in that country.

At the same time the same problem was detected in Indonesia, but those NGOs had their hands full trying to find solutions to the problem in the Philippines.

During the last two decades hobbyists, retailers and importers have gotten all the information required to educate themselves about the use of cyanide for fish collection. Most of them have not reacted and do not care about what is happening to the coral reefs, the fish populations and much less to the fish collectors.

Most of importers, retailers and hobbyist do not know that fisherfolks use hooka to go underwater to collect fish, they do not know that when a collector uses hooka, he is getting ENGINE OIL in his lungs, this, with negative consequences to his health. Do they care?

One thing for sure is that they are not willing to pay extra "cents' for the net caught fish "that was collected properly' by a collector that had to use HOOKA to satisfy the demand of this nice industry overseas.

The industry knows about what is happening in Indonesia but has done NOTHING to contribute solving the problem. NGOs didn't put the same resources in that country. Why the industry has not shown leadership to fight this one in Indonesia?

You have been misleading and misinforming people about the situation in the Philippines. NGOs have done a good job in the Philippines, this without the support of the industry. Hundreds of fishcollectors have been trained and as you have stated the Filipino collectors are the best in the world. I agree 100%. That was possible due to the NGOs work. There is more work to be done, think about bringing over something positive to the cause...... it would be benefitial.

As stated before this is a problem that requires more than nets and training. It requieres also the participation of those that do not care .... meaning those that get some kind of benefit from this activity... most of importers, retailers and hobbyists.

sorry, but regardless of what any problem may be-the first andforemost responsible to take a stand to correct the issue is that country itself-NOT an ngo

not that help shouldn't be given-but it must be at least matched with an equal amount of willingness to tackle the problem by THOSEWHO ARE CREATING AND BEING AFFECTED BY IT DIRECTLY


"if i am not for myself, then who will be for me ?
if i am only for myself, what am i?
and if not now, when "

-chapters of the fathers (pirkei avot)
(the order of the above is intentional, btw )

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Uh uh,
The cleanest collecting village in The Philippines is in Bolinao Pangasinan.
The local government has been the power here, not any foreign NGO.
THey have shown the way for others to follow.
Bolinao kicks out clean collectors, trainers and divers for hire around the world like no other.
Bolinao boys figure in every exciting start-up station from Saudi, Vanuatu, Tonga and Belize.
It is a veritable prototype of exciting change that can occur from within and from the village up.
The agent of this change was commercial...not faux environmental.

The peoples coral reefs are too important to leave to the whims, the politics and the grant making wheeling and dealing that determines the foreign "commitment" to change.
Filipinos need to change for their own good, their own reasons and with or without permission from the outside world.

Steve

Agree, Bolinao is ground for many good collectors. As an example I'll mention my dear friend Meme Purgatorio, trained by the good trainer S. Robinson. Meme, trained many collectors under projects conducted by NGOs IMA, OVI/Haribon, all this, after you disappear for over a decade.

Meme and others trained by him have been showing collectors in the Philippines to change for their own good, and own reasons. NGOs educated them about environmental aspects, they learnt to take better care of coral reefs. They have done a good job. They have been sending signals to the industry to act along with them to make things better but that industry has not responded to those calls.

Collectors in the Philippines are getting just morsels from this trade, a trade that makes millions of US$ a year. The industry doesn't want to consider coral reefs as the "farms" from where it makes profits. It has not put back resources to make sure that those 'farms" are in good shape..

What about Indonesia? Why the industry doesn't act knowing how serious is the problem overthere?

 

[clarionreef]

He writes;
"As stated before this is a problem that requires more than nets and training. It requieres also the participation of those that do not care "...

Requires the participation of those who do not care?
Did you actually say that?

That reminds me of the attempt to combine support from Apathetics Anonomous with Procrastinators Club.
Those that cared missed the meeting and those that didn't care didn't feel guilty.
You make my case for me.
Relying on and waiting for the West is not neccessarily an upgrade in morality, talent or integrity any more.
I fear that locals will see the mis-spent and squandered money and want to mimick it and do the same.
[bIf the consumer nations and their fish dealers are shiftless, irresponsible, phoney, shallow, greedy and apathetic...why should local people be dependant on them [/b]?
Steve

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Vitz,

As stated by someone else before in the Ph and Ind have so many problems that this "issue" is not a priority. I think they are wrong, but that's the way it is. I agree that central governments must be leading activities tending to protect and manage their natural resources.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

He writes;
"As stated before this is a problem that requires more than nets and training. It requieres also the participation of those that do not care "...

Requires the participation of those who do not care?
Did you actually say that?

That reminds me of the attempt to combine support from Apathetics Anonomous with Procrastinators Club.
Those that cared missed the meeting and those that didn't care didn't feel guilty.
You make my case for me.
Relying on and waiting for the West is not neccessarily an upgrade in morality, talent or integrity any more.
I fear that locals will see the mis-spent and squandered money and want to mimick it and do the same.
[bIf the consumer nations and their fish dealers are shiftless, irresponsible, phoney, shallow, greedy and apathetic...why should local people be dependant on them [/b]?
Steve

You like to play with other people words, that is a bad sign, are you disarmed? I wish I could say things in spanish or French to avoid misunderstandings.

Those who do not care MUST react and get involve in the process of change.

Should I explain that last sentence?[/u]

 

[SnowManSnow]

NOTHING to do with the posts here.. just saying HI JENN BEEN A WHILE!!! Lifes good here in ALABAMA.. miss bringing my 2yr old to your shop

Take CARE!

b

 

[naesco]

Steve I agree with Jaime that the time for talk etc. is done.

I also disagree with you when you suggest that the USCRTF is not fixed on solving the problem (stopping the use of cyanide) in a timely basis.

On reading the minutes of the meeting in detail, I suggest to you that the USCRTF is sick and tired of the lack of action on the part of industry in stopping the use of cyanide and will itself on an URGENT (their words) basis deal with this cancer and those that promote it once and for all.

It is also apparent to me that they will take whatever steps are necessary to prosecute those who continue dealing in cyanide fish.

Dr. Rubec has posted that the USCRTF is already looking for sources of cyanide detection testing along with those, like the IMA test which has already been proven to be effective.

Sorry Steve no more delays to fight over turf, training or all that kind of stuff. Be assured, however, that the demands for training will skyrocket once net caught fish is the only game in town.

Wayne

time for you to either 'fish, or cut bait'

what parts, specifically, of those minutes lead you to believe what you posted above?



Vitz, Attached is the presentation and final decision.
Please read them.

Here is the Powerpoint Presentation made to the USCRTF by the enforcement working group

http://www.coralreef.gov/taskforce/pdf/best_cyanide.pdf


Here is the final decision.
http://www.coralreef.gov/taskforce/pdf/15-1_Cyanide.pdf

Wayne Ryan

 

[clarionreef]

Agree, Bolinao is ground for many good collectors. As an example I'll mention my dear friend Meme Purgatorio, trained by the good trainer S. Robinson.
Meme, trained many collectors under projects conducted by NGOs IMA, OVI/Haribon, all this, after you disappear for over a decade.

Disappear from where...eco chat?
I recall that I was present ...everywhere I was!
... and that was in the field collecting for years continuously for a living. Tonga and Mexico mostly.

MieMies experience w/ these groups has soured him on their worth.
He has been used and exploited to dummy up grants and projects for orgs. w/ no clue how to proceed and no talent for delivering the goods.

He has been my primary advisor for years on the field realities in thr Philipines and testifies that he has felt used, cheated, neglected and mis handled for years.
He now works in the private sector training divers for real.
No more as he puts it "moro-moros. Now its genuine."

Mie Mie was passed over by MAC as he made their "field people" look bad by comparison.

 

[Anonymous]

This was the only use of the word urgent I could find in the decision Wayne posted:

Issue Statement: There is an urgent need for fast, reliable and convenient detection tests for determining
whether cyanide and other poisons have been used in the collection of live coral reef fish entering into
international trade. Many Task Force member agencies have expertise in toxicology, biomarkers and
forensics that could be applied to this issue. Field-based cyanide detection tests would be extremely
useful for local management and enforcement authorities in source countries. Tests that could be reliably
used several weeks after exposure would also allow the U.S. to apply the Lacey Act to suspected illegal
imports.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Agree, Bolinao is ground for many good collectors. As an example I'll mention my dear friend Meme Purgatorio, trained by the good trainer S. Robinson.
Meme, trained many collectors under projects conducted by NGOs IMA, OVI/Haribon, all this, after you disappear for over a decade.

Disappear from where...eco chat?
I recall that I was present ...everywhere I was!
... and that was in the field collecting for years continuously for a living. Tonga and Mexico mostly.

MieMies experience w/ these groups has soured him on their worth.
He has been used and exploited to dummy up grants and projects for orgs. w/ no clue how to proceed and no talent for delivering the goods.

He has been my primary advisor for years on the field realities in thr Philipines and testifies that he has felt used, cheated, neglected and mis handled for years.
He now works in the private sector training divers for real.
No more as he puts it "moro-moros. Now its genuine."

Mie Mie was passed over by MAC as he made their "field people" look bad by comparison.

Once again you are misinforming people. Now you are part of the past. You worked for and NGO while in the Philippines, you got money for it, as a mater of fact, you were the only one, from this side of the pond, that got paid while the rest of people were committed as volunteers. I don't blame you, you had to put bread on the table. You trained a bunch of good people, they learnt and now are capable of doing good things. Those people have been doing that for over 20 years....they are masters of this "simple" technique.

Romulo Purgatorio is his name and his "alias" Meme. Mie Mie is someone I didn't hear of. That Mie Mie was not part of any training conducted by IMA-Canada, OVI/Haribon, probably you trained Mie Mie somewhere else....Mexico? Tonga?

I'm sure Meme Purgatorio feels used, cheated, neglected and mishandled by this multimillion industry, as well as, hundreds of collectors in the Philippines. As I said, they have been sending signs of change, but the industry hasn't respond. They are risking their lives( I met some of them who had problems with their lungs due to the oil they were getting from the hooka) in exchange they're getting just morsels from this lucrative industry.

Why the industry is doing nothing in Indonesia?

 

[Jaime Baquero]

I forgot, you do not need to use red to underline that you were and possibly are a good trainer. In the Philippines that is part of the past.

 

[clarionreef]

Oh James,
Give it a rest.
I train divers every year of my life to collect w/ nets and w/ care.
What do you do besides.....well, this?

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

This was the only use of the word urgent I could find in the decision Wayne posted:

Issue Statement: There is an urgent need for fast, reliable and convenient detection tests for determining
whether cyanide and other poisons have been used in the collection of live coral reef fish entering into
international trade. Many Task Force member agencies have expertise in toxicology, biomarkers and
forensics that could be applied to this issue. Field-based cyanide detection tests would be extremely
useful for local management and enforcement authorities in source countries. Tests that could be reliably
used several weeks after exposure would also allow the U.S. to apply the Lacey Act to suspected illegal
imports.

It just looks like they stated their intent to form a group to look into the possibilities of these things. Its a long way off if anything is even done.

 

[clarionreef]

Jaime,
Once again you are misinforming people. Now you are part of the past.
You wrote;
Once again you are misinforming people. Now you are part of the past.

You worked for and NGO while in the Philippines, you got money for it, as a mater of fact, you were the only one, from this side of the pond, that got paid while the rest of people were committed as volunteers.
Jamie,
I trained Mie mie, and plenty of other on $70 dollars a month in the early 80's.. More money was alotted but it was embezzled.
I don't blame you, you had to put bread on the table.
Bread?...it was rice I recall.
You trained a bunch of good people, they learnt and now are capable of doing good things. Those people have been doing that for over 20 years....they are masters of this "simple" technique.
Simple...and yet non reproduceable by NGOs in their projects.
These people were mishandled by one NGO after another...[Haribon quit the fight and reported the lack of simple netting as a key factor.]

However, we have salvaged their efforts and put them to work all over the world. They have been productive...as the box counts prove.

US...600 a week currently
your MAC ...0

The guys you knew at MAC have all quit as well.
The ones who put you up to running interference for them have also quit.
Your working on auto-pilot now.
Steve
Mie Mie was offered a low paying job to save MAC and shore up their chain of failures. He refused to align with them.


Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Vitz,

As stated by someone else before in the Ph and Ind have so many problems that this "issue" is not a priority. I think they are wrong, but that's the way it is. I agree that central governments must be leading activities tending to protect and manage their natural resources.

if a country does not see a problem as a priority, allof the well wishing ngo help in the world won't even dent the problem-the people there FIRST have to want to change-you cannot force change strictly form the outside-look at iraq

 

[Anonymous]

Steve I agree with Jaime that the time for talk etc. is done.

I also disagree with you when you suggest that the USCRTF is not fixed on solving the problem (stopping the use of cyanide) in a timely basis.

On reading the minutes of the meeting in detail, I suggest to you that the USCRTF is sick and tired of the lack of action on the part of industry in stopping the use of cyanide and will itself on an URGENT (their words) basis deal with this cancer and those that promote it once and for all.

It is also apparent to me that they will take whatever steps are necessary to prosecute those who continue dealing in cyanide fish.

Dr. Rubec has posted that the USCRTF is already looking for sources of cyanide detection testing along with those, like the IMA test which has already been proven to be effective.

Sorry Steve no more delays to fight over turf, training or all that kind of stuff. Be assured, however, that the demands for training will skyrocket once net caught fish is the only game in town.

Wayne

time for you to either 'fish, or cut bait'

what parts, specifically, of those minutes lead you to believe what you posted above?



Vitz, Attached is the presentation and final decision.
Please read them.

Here is the Powerpoint Presentation made to the USCRTF by the enforcement working group

http://www.coralreef.gov/taskforce/pdf/best_cyanide.pdf


Here is the final decision.
http://www.coralreef.gov/taskforce/pdf/15-1_Cyanide.pdf

Wayne Ryan

once again, to the troll who cannot read....


what parts, specifically, of those minutes lead you to believe what you posted above?

please provide them in quotes