Lion fish caught in Haiti

[bobimport]

Well it had to happen.... I just received a Lion fish from Haiti in my regular order. My shipper told me to look in box #45 for a new fish. When we opened it you could have knocked me down with a feather.
I informed him that it was poisonous. He wondered how the packers managed to pack it without getting stung. I will post photos of it soon. I just cant see how it got to Haiti . Given the lack of Aquariums in Haiti (none to my knowledge) I don't think it was let lose.

Bob

 

[spawner]

I'm sure that the larvae from FL are cycling down south, that would be what we see with a lot of inverts and fish.

DON"T SELL IT. I"LL TAKE IT.

 

[neptunesgardener]

Lions are routinely seen by divers off the Outer Banks and have been reported as far north as Long Island.As far as bagging one without getting stung I have accomplished that "feat" hundreds of times.The odds of a reproducing population establishing itself with released or escaped fish are slim and none,and slim just moseyed on out of town.A far more probable scenario is a ship taking on ballast water in the tropical Pacific that was loaded with planktonic larval lions,sailing through the Panama Canal,and discharging the ballast.This would have introduced 1000's of lions into one area.This would greatly increase the odds of establishing a population.The Atlantic Ocean is a big place!

 

[PeterIMA]

An aquarium maintenance guy told me about a client who had a 5000 gallon aquairum in St. Augustine full of lionfish. The tank was destroyed during Hurricane Andrew in 1993. The maintenance guy believed that was the source of the lionfish getting into the Atlantic.

If seems reasonable to me since they were first reported in Florida and have been dispersing north and now south.

Peter

 

[spawner]

neptunesgardener":si6sjhu7" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Lions are routinely seen by divers off the Outer Banks and have been reported as far north as Long Island.As far as bagging one without getting stung I have accomplished that "feat" hundreds of times.The odds of a reproducing population establishing itself with released or escaped fish are slim and none,and slim just moseyed on out of town.A far more probable scenario is a ship taking on ballast water in the tropical Pacific that was loaded with planktonic larval lions,sailing through the Panama Canal,and discharging the ballast.This would have introduced 1000's of lions into one area.This would greatly increase the odds of establishing a population.The Atlantic Ocean is a big place!

You really don't understand how invasive species introductions work. The chances of introduced larvae that were “cultured” inside of a ships ballast were released, survived then started reproducing is almost nuts compared to a few adult fish released some 10-15 years ago reproducing millions of larvae over many years, a few of those surviving developing and establishing new populations. If this were the case, we would have a lot of invasive marine fish species. The fact is that very few if any marine fish larvae can withstand a ships ballast and survive. Additionally, why are there not invasive populations of lion fish all over the world?

Those who wish things to become true that just aren't, would attempt to suggest that it would take 1000s of adults to establish a population, when in fact it only takes a few adult fish. We don't call them invasive because it takes 1000s or millions of them to start a population, that type of organism would take a number of years to establish populations. We’ll beyond the time period we’re talking about here.

Goldstein and others started with the idea that the aquarium business is not responsible and are trying to make something true that is simply not. Not exactly what you can call objective science. When you objectively look at this, it’s pretty simple.

Genetics of course will end this debate; you be able to tell what part of the world the introduced fish came from and how large (estimated) the founding population was. My guess would be that the populations are comprised of a single haplotype, maybe a small handful.

 

[bobimport]

I just had a wonderful conversation with Ramon Ruiz-Carus, Dr.Sc
He is doing research on the Lion fish population. He related a story about a man who called him that was in the army in the 1940's stationed in the Bahamas. He told the story how he had seen lion fish in the Bahamas and the locals even had a name for them. Some have been found in Cuba and Mexico.

As to collecting one without getting stung. Gardner let me point out that you knew it could sting you the collectors Haiti had no idea what they were dealing with.

 

[PeterIMA]

The maintenance person I spoke with (who specializes in installing custom aquarium sytems and cabinets) showed me a photograph of the aquarium holding the lionfish. The tank convered the entire length of a wall of a fairly large room (about 2.5 feet high and 12 feet long). The lionfish in the image were all adults ranging in size from 8 to 12 inches. So, if this tank (which was situated in a wealthy person's home next to the ocean in Saint Augustine, Florida) broke during Hurricane Andrew there were enough lionfish to form a founding population (at least a dozen fish) in the Atlantic Ocean.

Peter

 

[JeremyR]

Come on, there have been plenty more than that let go by hobbyists, and plenty of insinuations of wholesalers & dive shops introducing fish. I don't really think you can pin it on a tank breaking in the hurricane, but it makes for good urban legend copy. This was going to happen with or without someones fish tank breaking in a hurricane. I'm sure all those oscars in the everglades are from a hurricane tank break too

FWIW, the lions are making it up here to RI too. The only reason fish like that aren't established up here is because the winter kills them every year... but I"ve had people tell me they let fish go in local waters thinking they were doing them a favor, both fresh and saltwater fish.

 

[PeterIMA]

I just spoke with Dr. Ramon Ruiz-Carus. He has been gathering information about lionfish sightings in the Atlantic. He confirmed that he had spoken to an older gentleman who reported seeing lionfish in the Bahamas over 50 years ago. However, Ramon was not able to contact him again to confirm the sighting. I find this difficult to believe since lionfish were not regularly imported to the USA by the aquarium trade until the early 1960s.

Ramon noted that there was a house in Key Biscayne with a large aquarium near a swimming pool that had lionfish. The tank was destroyed by Hurricane Andrew and there were sightings of lionfish near Key
Biscayne in the ocean soon thereafter. A state biologist (Walter Jaap) investigated the sightings at the time (1993). So, the sightings in Florida are more than rumour.

I may be wrong in implying that the lionfish excaped from a tank situated in Saint Augustine. The premise that the fish escaped when their tank was destroyed by Hurricane Andrew near Key Biscayne has more support.

However, I agree with the previous poster that there are marine fishes being released by unwitting aquarium hobbyists, escaped from fish farms etc. The FWC/FWRI Fisheries-Independent Monitoring program has captured several Pacific Ocean groupers in Tampa Bay (one was a Panther grouper). There is a published paper of sightings of Emperor Angelfish and other marine fish species (about a dozen species) of Philippine and Red Sea origin off of West Palm Beach (we discussed this on RDO about a year ago). About 3 Philippine batfish (Platax obicularis) have been captured off the Florida Keys.

Peter Rubec

 

[Usename]

There was one caught in Florida.


http://research.myfwc.com/features/view_article.asp?id=27520

8O

 

[Anonymous]

Lions are routinely seen by divers off the Outer Banks and have been reported as far north as Long Island.As far as bagging one without getting stung I have accomplished that "feat" hundreds of times.The odds of a reproducing population establishing itself with released or escaped fish are slim and none,and slim just moseyed on out of town.A far more probable scenario is a ship taking on ballast water in the tropical Pacific that was loaded with planktonic larval lions,sailing through the Panama Canal,and discharging the ballast.This would have introduced 1000's of lions into one area.This would greatly increase the odds of establishing a population.The Atlantic Ocean is a big place!

:lol:

 

[bobimport]

The diver would not give up the location that it was found. their are more

bob

 

[Anonymous]

oooooh it's a secret ! :lol:


geese, what's he worried about ? exclusivity on lions ? :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

LOL When I was diving in RI for tropicals lat last summer many people kept telling me they saw lionfish. However they too all refused to tell me where. WTF for?

 

[PeterIMA]

Dr. Ramon Ruiz-Carus would like to thank BobImport for supplying a lionfish speciman from Haiti to the FWC Fish & Wildlife Research Institute in St. Petersburg. Ramon is conducting research on Atlantic lionfish. He has a published paper. I will provide a link to the paper in my next posting.

Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

An aquarium maintenance guy told me about a client who had a 5000 gallon aquairum in St. Augustine full of lionfish. The tank was destroyed during Hurricane Andrew in 1993. The maintenance guy believed that was the source of the lionfish getting into the Atlantic.

If seems reasonable to me since they were first reported in Florida and have been dispersing north and now south.

Peter

Ummmm I may have not lived in florida for 10 years now but I seem to remember St. Augustine is 300 miles away from Miami and I seem to remember living in ground zero when Andrew hit Miami.

 

[PeterIMA]

OK ground zero for Hurrincane Andrew was Key Biscayne and Miami and not Saint Augustine. I already stated that Key Biscayne was probably the more likely site where someone had a tank with lionfish that was destroyed by Hurricane Andrew allowing the lionfish to excape into the Atlantic ocean.

Peter

 

[bobimport]

Who can know the mind of a collector in Haiti. Even the divers in Miami when asked say "in the ocean" and refuse to answer

 

[bobimport]

Well Lion fish #2 just arrived from Haiti