Does the hobby die without FedEx?

[Caterham]

This poll is pretty simple. It was recently stated that the hobby would cease to exist if FedEx quit shipping livestock direct to the hobbyists for online livestock vendors.

 

[Race]

Caterham,
To the RC crowd, of which many, "if not most", purchase online,---- the hobby as they and we know it will cease to exist. Please move over the rest of my posts.

You and I are going to have a bright future together.

Race Foster

 

[Race]

Caterham,
Please tell me why my hardgoods and livestock sales have increased every single month this year while the rest of the industry is crying the blues? EVERY SINGLE MONTH for 61 months straight.

Ya I know, no one wants online services as they would rather buy from the ponytail club.

Race

 

[Race]

Caterham,
That is 61 months which is over five years of growth-- every single month. Let's take a poll on that one.

 

[Race]

For Caterham's clarification---- please go to RC'S Vendor Experiences and read the FEDEX post.
Thanks for the exposure Caterham, hopefully it will translate into more sales for me. And the RC bar rag comment!!!!! Oh well.

Race

 

[Caterham]

Dr. Foster,

Thanks so much for your comments. This purpose of this poll is to try and help retailers understand the future of our industry. If the hobby is dead without FedEx then many retailers may indeed need to alter the business model in which they currently operate.

Congratulations on an outstanding job by you and your entire staff. This poll was not directed at your company specifically as there are hundreds of livestock vendors shipping via FedEx.

To our mutual success,

 

[Race]

Even without your poll, many retailers should develop new business strategies. A couple of years ago Mitch Gibbs wrote "Race is Winning" and in a sense he is correct. Really it is not Race, it is the people's buying habits which are changing and the Ponytailers are slow in realizing that. They should get with the ballgame and help themselves. I welcome the competition, in fact I want it as it accelerates the change in buying habits and with my customer service, I will continue to win.

As far as livestock, I have no desire to profit off the sale of puppies, kittens, poults, corals and fish and I do not. I have a problem with profiteering from the sale of live animals but I do not have an issue with someone who chooses to do so.

Caterham, in reviewing your posts you have a tendency to chime in and get the hobbyist and the industry to justify their existance. The last person had a question about obtaining fragging equipment and you offered nothing, which puts you in my elite group of " critical as always, but offers nothing" people. I for one do not need or desire your approval, you are out of touch. Our future will be interesting.

 

[Anonymous]

I find the poll too limitting

 

[Race]

Gresham,
The poll exemplifies the ignorance of our industry. No forward thinking, just black and white---either Retail or Etail. Read the RC FedEX posts for the real meaning.
Caterham saw what he wanted to see and totally missed all the rest. I struggle with this type of mentality but it is pervasive in this industry. Small thinkers with no vision. AMDA anyone????
Talk about " Rope a Dope"

Race

 

[JennM]

As far as livestock, I have no desire to profit off the sale of puppies, kittens, poults, corals and fish and I do not. I have a problem with profiteering from the sale of live animals but I do not have an issue with someone who chooses to do so.

Anybody else see the irony in this?

Merriam Webster defines:



Main Entry:
prof·i·teer Listen to the pronunciation of profiteer
Pronunciation:
\ˌprä-fə-ˈtir\
Function:
noun
Date:
1912

: one who makes what is considered an unreasonable profit especially on the sale of essential goods during times of emergency
— profiteer intransitive verb


Well since pet livestock is not an essential good, and we're not in an emergency, I take Race's comment to mean "unreasonable profit". Who defines what's "reasonable"? I guess the consumer defines what is "reasonable" by shopping where they choose to.

I didn't read the RC thread (yet)... but there are other options other than FedEx to deliver stuff... I worked in the courier industry for 11 years. FedEx has the most brand recognition but there are plenty of other ways to have things delivered, just as reliably too.

FedEx or no FedEx, the hobby will cease to grow if all the LFS go away. That's a more important thought to ponder, IMO.

Jenn

 

[Dr. Mac1]

With all due respect I think it is absurd to say that this hobby/business will go away without Fed Ex.

Maybe Race you mean you will go away without Fed Ex, or your point was that watchdogs will take posts by hobbyists the wrong way and use them as ammunition to shut us down, a stretch also, IMO.

I started as an internet based basement business 7 years ago and then 5 years ago went to brick and mortar & internet. Every month this year I have increased in sales 30-40% over last year and am on pace to sell over 2.5M in livestock this year---without Fed EX. Not everyone ships in their livestock via FedEx and sells to every customer via FedEx as you do.

Policies such as extreme guarantee periods IMO cheapen the livestock we all sell in the minds of hobbyists that have a more disposable mentality about livestock---"I don't need to worry, they will cover any losses no questions asked", how is it that any vendor can be responsible for a customer's husbandry for weeks? By offering this you are making the livestock an expendable item, a commodity, and IMO bringing more scrutiny to the industry in the long run. I understand you are a master marketer and this policy brings sales---but you have said here sales at no actual profit so why advertise so much, why offer extreme policies that actually harm the industry IMO if not for profit but rather for sport. An ocassional post by hobbyists about a FedEx screwup or a DOA fish will not harm the industry as much, IMO, as your cheapening of the livestock. I am a lifelong hobbyist, and as a normal business owner must be profitable too--to characterize it as profiteering is an insult to all those in this business trying to work hard to make a living. The vast majority of us are quite responsible about what we do, ask Kevin who is in touch with all the wholesalers and ask him if he feels they are all profiteers?? I for one take your comment as demeaning.

I'm sorry, I fell for it this time Race. I normally don't chime in here and usually have no desire to get involved in these debates, but you do say some response provoking things sometimes. That is what a master marketer does though, correct---keeping the name out there.

 

[Caterham]

Dr. Mac,

Thanks so much for your comments on this thread. I agree with every word you said and appreciate your involvement. Clearly, the hobby will not cease to exist without FedEx. This hobby far outdates them, thus disproving the theory from the onset.

I do have one question. What carrier do you ship on and why?

Best regards,

 

[Anonymous]

Policies such as extreme guarantee periods IMO cheapen the livestock we all sell in the minds of hobbyists that have a more disposable mentality about livestock---"I don't need to worry, they will cover any losses no questions asked", how is it that any vendor can be responsible for a customer's husbandry for weeks? By offering this you are making the livestock an expendable item, a commodity, and IMO bringing more scrutiny to the industry in the long run.

\

Do we have any evidence that the long guarantee actually makes hobbyists think the animals are disposable as opposed to making them think the vendor is saying they have quality livestock?

 

[Race]

Dr. mac,
As you know from previous conversations I am well aware of your business model and have no issues with it. I also have no issue with anyone selling livestock at a profit and I mentioned that. It just is not my objective and does not need to be.

As far as the guarantee, that will stay as long as I am with the company. I have absolutely no problem reducing the hobbyist's risk and do not agree that it results in poor husbandry. In fact knowing that I have to replace livestock makes us purchase quality, provide better husbandry and ship smarter---- that means health. We are at odds here for sure.

Unlike many here, I welcome competition and urge everyone to try Etail, Retail or a combination. I love the changing industry and view it as opportunity--- not gloom and doom. You might also take note that in 25 years I have NEVER suggested that one of my customers not also purchase from a competitor--- be it Retail or Etail. I want competition and I will live or die by the best customer service in the entire industry. If that will not carry me then I will get out. So far, so good.

 

[Race]

Dr. Mac,
One more comment on the scrutiny. I have stated publicly that at LiveAquaria.com we have a-- shipping and under 14 day guarantee--mortality of less than 5 %. It is generally about 4.7%. Not much to scrutinize .

Good or bad, I do not know but in my opinion, the customer should not have to pay for it. I believe that about 2.5% is due to shipping and damage and the rest occurs in the hobbyists tank.

I think that the aquarium owner is doing quite well here and I give them credit. Too many times the industry views the hobbyist as the culprit and I do not buy that. I find them well intended and very,very honest and capable. I trust them, hence my money back guarantee. Do you not trust them???? If you do, why not make it financially right for them--- or is this money---- your "Living"? Sorry, I just cannot do it.

In my opinion, the hobbyist cares as much or more for the livestock than do many in the industry, and for that, I thank them.----------------Race

 

[Anonymous]

Did the topic starter mean if all overnight shipping company's or just Fed-Ex?

It seems silly to me that someone would think that any one shipping company could bring the hobby down.

Caterman, please clarify.

Louey

 

[JennM]

Do we have any evidence that the long guarantee actually makes hobbyists think the animals are disposable as opposed to making them think the vendor is saying they have quality livestock?

Yep. Here's the most recent snippet I read recently on the Atlanta Reef Club forum. Link to the thread will follow... I did not copy the full post, only the bit that I felt was in context here and I believe I preserved the context of the intent of the post.

.... while I had a full refund including shipping from LiveAquaria for a fish that didn't eat after 14days in my tank which eventually died of starvation. Yes I wouldn't mind paying 65bucks for a yellow tang if I can have a peace of mind.
All value for advice is all bologne, you can get a million advice and make up your mind in the gazillion forums out on the internet. Give as many option as you can for the consumer, keep the prices competative, not just on retail level but on the global level, it is a shrinking world... if you can't do it more and more stores will leave the local customers without that additional option... Everyone loses here....

The complete post is about halfway down the page here: http://atlantareefclub.org/forums/showt ... iveaquaria

Now... if the customer didn't have the security of a 14-day guarantee, how likely would they have been to try more things to get said fish to eat, or perhaps not venture to try it in the first place?

Or how about see it eat before taking it home from the store...oops it didn't come from a store - my bad

I have seen posts like this countless times. It does not necessarily reflect the attitude of hobbyists *in general*, but people like that are out there.

Jenn

 

[Race]

Louey,
I will clarify. The post started around home delivery and was about home delivery. All of the posters were about home delivery and the fact is without FEDEX there would be no wide scale home delivery.
My comments were clarified on RC that the industry, as these posters know it would cease to exist. Poor choice of words on my part as I was not discussing the commercial bathtub livestock deliveries. FedEx will not change that sacrifice.
I will not go into that mortality as this is a public forum but I clearly voiced my displeasure with Northwest and other common carriers. If that kind of shipping, stress and mortality is "good nuf" for some----well I rest my case because it ain't for my livestock---- at least when I have an option.

 

[Anonymous]

Jenn,

The post doesn't say anything about the customer not trying to get the fish to eat because they had a 14 day guarantee.

 

[Caterham]

I have been asked for clarification on this issue and am happy to oblige.

Dr. Race Foster said....

Although FedX has their share of problems as do all shippers, please remember the alternative. UPS does not prefer to ship livestock and FedX has considered stopping it. Should this happen the hobby as we know it will cease to exist. Almost all LFS and internet retailers, such as LiveAquaria.com depend on FedX to obtain and ship their livestock. Without them--- we are history.
What I am attempting to say is that we need to thank them for being there for the hobby and they should accept constructive criticism as well. Should FedX go away, there will be no hobby---and they are considering going away. Despite their occasional blemish, we need to thank them.

Thank you, Dr. Race Foster
DrsFosterSmith.com
LiveAquaria.com

To read the thread in its entirety please go to:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1210067

Many thanks to all involved in this thread. An open discussion is always beneficial to those who follow this industry.

Best regards,