Does the hobby die without FedEx?

[JennM]

What I read from Race's posts... how I interpreted it as he stated it, is that he sells livestock at a LOSS.

He has also mentioned that other branches of his business are indeed profitable and the profits from those branches OFFSET the loss on the livestock.

Selling livestock at a loss does not imply that he's re-investing the money made back into infrastructure etc. It implies that he loses money on each sale.

Pay $10 for fish, sell it for $8, and the other $2 comes from someplace else in the business that's making money. Not pay $10, sell it for $12 and re-invest the extra $2 in something else - infrastructure or whatnot.

Perhaps Race will clarify what he means by that statement, however that is how I interpreted it to mean.

How a business re-invests its profits is one thing. Selling at a loss is another.

I do believe on numerous occasions, Race has stated that he sells livestock at a net loss.

Jenn

 

[dizzy]

That seems to ignore all the expenses of building and running the facility/facilities that Race has talked about. Just like a B&M, those facilities and the expenses of running them cost money and must be factored into the idea of profit.

Rich you just speculated a couple of posts earlier that you thought the drygoods sales were covering the building and operating expenses.

IIUC, that's not what's happening - the dry goods sales are currently funding the facilities

 

[Anonymous]

That seems to ignore all the expenses of building and running the facility/facilities that Race has talked about. Just like a B&M, those facilities and the expenses of running them cost money and must be factored into the idea of profit.

Rich you just speculated a couple of posts earlier that you thought the drygoods sales were covering the building and operating expenses.

IIUC, that's not what's happening - the dry goods sales are currently funding the facilities

I don't get what the contradiction is there. One division has expenses, and isn't making enough to cover them, so another division of the business does.

 

[treeman]

Thales,

Do you know that the profits from the drygoods is in fact funding the facilities?

 

[Anonymous]

Thales,

Do you know that the profits from the drygoods is in fact funding the facilities?

Nope. I stated that with IIUC based on discussions with Race. Saying 'drygoods' is prolly too broad anyway. If LA is in the red, some other division of DF&S is prolly taking up the slack as operating money and expansion money have to come from somewhere. However, since I am not involved I don't really know for sure.

I think something to remember is that speculations can be way off base, and I will try to refrain from making them in the future.

 

[dizzy]

glitch post has been removed by me.
Mitch

 

[dizzy]

I'm removing the word geeze from my prior post.
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Mitch! My post is edited.

 

[Linda Lee]

Here is a prime example of the health of the live stock taking back seat to the no fault guarantee and lower shipping cost option winning out over the animals interests.

TODAY Atlanta Reef Cub:

This order was not without losses. We were shorted a chromis and I took the two bags that had dead and dying chromis. This was my first time, and I'm sorry I messed up on a few things. I probably should have paid $10 to upgrade the shipping, but I just didn't know. I figured an order delivered yesterday would be fine if I received it today.

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/s ... 137&page=4

Notice the customer opted for the cheaper (longer) shipping option knowing full well that any losses would be covered by the sender.

I would very much like point out that this particular poster (Kalkbreath - a/k/a, Jeff, a/k/a co-owner of Cappuccino Bay, Marietta, Georgia) deliberately took text out of context to further his argument.

This was my first order and, yes, a learning experience.

The liberty of his erroneous commentary suggests:

~ I chose the less expensive option knowing losses would be covered by the sender. <--- conjuncture only. THE FACT: I did not even know there was a live guarantee.

~ I did not care about the health or interests of the specimens being transported. <---- conjuncture only. THE FACT: I care deeply for any marine animal. For that matter, being involved in animal rescue, I care for any animal period. The very idea that I would just blow off the death of a fish as a disposable product is ludicrous and anyone who knows me on the Atlanta Reef Club knows this to be A FACT: I'm a conscientious and responsible reefer.

Mr. Kalkbreath slandered my reputation and owes me an apology. Through PM's, he has avoided this and somehow feels I am trying to blame the loss of these animals on him or LFS's in general through some kind of *transference* (HIS word; I still haven't fugured that one out.)

I've been a supporter of Cappuccino Bay, Marietta, Georgia, since I became involved in this hobby, but in the future I will not be darkening their door (sorry, Robby - you've been terrific; your partner is not).

And I would also ask others to consider making purchases elsewhere. I've seen unethical practices by this particular store in the past (some that have shocked me), but I bit my tongue. I figured mistakes are human. This, however, is the last straw. This was a careless comment taken deliberately out of context with no purpose but to further this man's own argument and no consideration for the true intentions, actions or personal feelings of the person involved

And this Mr. Kalkbreath who calls me an irresponsible, careless hobbyist is the same one who said in a post in this very thread:

"I enter the online market in a few days , I do so with a complete understanding that I am harming the trade in order to make a few more bucks for myself."

[shaking my head on that one ~ shaking my head on this whole thing]

 

[Race]

That is the most disgusting quote that I have ever witnessed. Sickening!

 

[Pent]

Race,

Hello, I usually just look at the forums but after reading this I am very confused by your comments. Please help me understand, I am not trying to start a flame here.

1) I am a little confused on your position with someone make money selling live animals. Please see your quotes below. You go from having issues, to not having issues,What is it?

[

i]

As far as livestock, I have no desire to profit off the sale of puppies, kittens, poults, corals and fish and I do not. I have a problem with profiteering from the sale of live animals but I do not have an issue with someone who chooses to do so.[/i]

quote="Race"]Dr. mac,
As you know from previous conversations I am well aware of your business model and have no issues with it. I also have no issue with anyone selling livestock at a profit and I mentioned that. It just is not my objective and does not need to be.

Dr. Mac,
Fish and coral are not used as a marketing tool. The aquaculture facility and the industry is my hobby just as my cattle ranch in Montana. I have the absolute best calving barn and facility near Winnett, Montana and that precludes me from selling Vermilion steers at a profit. Is that a marketing tool or a choice that I have made with my money? I also have a World Class Dressage Horse Arena in Hazelhurst, Wisconsin. Opened tonight. Is that a marketing tool for selling equine products? No, I just completed all three of the facilities and have been in the industry for years--- all three of these ventures ( all livestock, be it fish , coral, calf or foal ) are what I have chosen to do in my next life.

2) You have stated that you sell millions and millions and millions of dollars of fish and coral. I know what wholesale price is and everyone can see what you charge, which is not any less than a LFS. And you say

[

i]

As far as livestock, I have no desire to profit off the sale of puppies, kittens, poults, corals and fish and I do not. I have a problem with profiteering from the sale of live animals but I do not have an issue with someone who chooses to do so.[/i]

You are profiting nicely my friend, I think you said 40 something percent was shipped out of your WI location. ( I will find the quote) That leaves the rest as drop shipped where the only direct cost you have is someone picking up the phone or returning an e-mail and paying the invoice from the wholesaler. Even if the wholesaler up charges you for the smaller orders. Once again your pricing and a LFS pricing are close, the customer is paying shipping and your returns are only at 4.5% you say. You don’t make money you say! Why the shame?

Rich,
It is o.k. Anyone that sells me livestock knows that I hide nothing. This secret stuff is what I deplore in this industry. If they do not like it, do not sell me the fish. I will not lie to the hobby.

Race, you promote your facilities but then have wholesalers drop ship for you, if the wholesaler is drop shipping what does is have to do with your facilities. Is that not false advertising at least 50 something percent of the time?

If I have it wrong please explain how, as you said above “ you have nothing to hide”

Once again I really did not what this to be a flame, I just do not understand the “I do it for the love of the hobby speech” and then look at you comments do the math and things do not add up. You have marketed yourself and company well. But all your boasting put together makes it look like you are doing the bait and switch most of the time. Advertise the quality of your products and then ship them sight unseen. How is the ethical?



Pent.

 

[dizzy]

Allow me to give you hand there Pent. Search the industry forum on March 22, 2007

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:20 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Race and Marty ship about 26% of their livestock from their Wisconsin facility. All new sales growth is from Wisconsin, hence our $500,000.00+ marine fish expansion project, which will be completed within 60 days in Wisconsin. The facility will be open for all to view at the June, 2007 Fish and Coral Conference held in Rhinelander, Wisconsin.

I will probably dropship until I dropdead--- but by design, it's relevancy is decreasing.

Since my name was mentioned, I wanted my facts accurate and public.

Thanks, Race

 

[Pent]

Thanks...I know I had read that.

 

[naesco]

Thanks...I know I had read that.

Welcome to the Industry Forum, Pent.
Good to have you post here.
Thanks
Wayne