Sea Shepards blasts aquarium trade

[RichardS]

The LFS can't demand such things. Higher quality means higher price. And if the LFS has a competitor(s) open up down the street selling crappy fish cheap then a whole bunch of hobbyists will go running to the cheap shop to get in on the really good deals. So then what does the good shop do...take a lower margin on their better product?...start bringing in cheaper lower quality stock to compete?...just keep doing things the same and hope they have enough good hobbyist's to keep them in business?

I think the changes have to take place at a higher level, the wholesalers. I don't think those changes will take place without government intervention though. This industry will never self regulate IMO.

 

[swsaltwater]

Yes I agree the wholesalers have to take the high road, motivation via DOA and DAA gurantees to those that have decent sytems should do as the stores with bad systems have to eat the dead fish. That in itself should be a motivator. But the caveat is the wholesalers or some common entity needs to provide the easy to use material on what those systems should include....Maybe discounts for those with low mortality or some other incentive. My motivation is 1 healthy fish/coral with as little death as possible. 2 Profit..... But I bet most places have 2 first and my 1 last.....

 

[Anonymous]

The USFWS has tons literally of paper on tropical fish imports for all the good it does and all that it reveals.

A giant warehouse full infact and no money to analyze it. You can collect all the data you want, but if you can't analyze it, it's worthless.

 

[clarionreef]

This forum has pretty much proved one thing;
This will not be solved from the American side....or the market side.
The market runs on smoke and image, advertising and b.s.
That does not...and will not translate into field changes.
The reward of a sticker for sustainability or some eco-labeling paper trail may only be of interest to people who are interested in the issues which the huge majority is not...and will not ever be.

Change will be driven for local reasons with or without our acknowledgement. Better people are emerging in foreign fisheries everywhere. They hold the key and thats where the real issues are playing out.
One might imagine that the subject matter would link hobbyists to the plight of the coral reefs....but that would be a mistake.
One might think that offering clean livestock would help make the case and spark changes....no...it never did that beyond a small sector of the market.

This thing has had its moment in the sun and the opportunites for market driven strategies have passed to no acclaim.

Now...SE Asian fisheries must decide to manage their own reefs with out the consent of our amoral and oblivious marketplace. They don't need our consent to do what is right for their own people.
They were lazy to let us do it...and we did not and they were naive to think we would actually do things for their good rather then our own.
Professional careerists armed with laptops full of templates for automatic, knee jerk reform strategies based on unproven theory have served themselves at the expense of the peoples problems that they exploited for their own gain.
Thats just got to have run its course now and fallen out of favor w/ embarrassed funders and fishery officials..
This year will see many exciting new developments.....
Steve
.

 

[Anonymous]

This year will see many exciting new developments.....

:lol:

 

[PeterIMA]

Yes, This year will see a number of examples of real reform starting from the
collection sites.

Peter

 

[PeterIMA]

The problems associated with mortality in LFS start with how the fish are collected and handled. Fishes caught with cyanide and then handled poorly die throughout the chain of custody including the LFS stores and the tanks of marine hobbyists. Stress is cumulative and is a major killer. Exposure to sublethal ammonia levels anywhere throughout the chain of custody can lead to high dead on arrival (DOA) and high dead after arrival (DAA). The DAA appears to be related to clubbing of the gills due to the exposure to ammonia and/or ammonium. There is very little a LFS can do to reverse gill clubbing other than keeping the fish in very good water quality with high oxygen, until the fish regenerate gill tissues. Fishes that have been stressed are more susceptible to disease outbreaks such as bacterial diseases as well as protozoans such as Amyloodinium, Cryptocaryon, and/or Brooklynella. Any damage to the mucus membranes due to rough handling creates sites where the parasites attack the fish. Medicating the fish with both antibiotics and with copper can help, but many fish will still die.


EASTI conducts net-trainings and trains collectors with protocols for proper handling and shipping. These MO fish rarely have any parasites on them when they arrive (personal observations over two years). The DAA is almost non-existent. So, there are better fish out there and the supply is increasing.

Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, This year will see a number of examples of real reform starting from the
collection sites.

Peter

Like Les Village was supposed to be?

Which year? The end of 07? The end of 08? November 08?

There always seems to be promises of reforming in the 'next year', so I would like a real timeframe to pay attention to.

 

[Anonymous]

EASTI conducts net-trainings and trains collectors with protocols for proper handling and shipping. These MO fish rarely have any parasites on them when they arrive (personal observations over two years). The DAA is almost non-existent. So, there are better fish out there and the supply is increasing.

Where are these better fish, and how do people get their hands on them? Do you have any actual numbers?

 

[Anonymous]

This forum has pretty much proved one thing;
This will not be solved from the American side....or the market side.
The market runs on smoke and image, advertising and b.s.
That does not...and will not translate into field changes.
The reward of a sticker for sustainability or some eco-labeling paper trail may only be of interest to people who are interested in the issues which the huge majority is not...and will not ever be.

You're right about that. What can be even more frustrating is for that rare conscientious consumer finding that it is nigh impossible to purchase conscientiously. For instance, my husband and I have decided that no seafood that is not sustainable or is harvested via ecologically unsound methods will ever come into our home. To that end he has gone on a campaign to find local grocers who carry sustainable/sound seafoods. Guess what -- this is impossible. Not only do they not carry it, you can't get them to bring it in. So, we order online, and that took MUCH searching. Of course, we sometimes pay a higher price, so these purchases are limited.

There are two avenues by which to engender, maybe even force change -- people voting with their dollars and governmental intervention. However, at this point in time my personal stance is that the people and governments of nations that hold within their territories waters that attract tourism would better place their efforts towards building up that type of economy first. (Not as their only industry, to be clear, as tourism relies entirely on disposable income, but then again so does the aquatic ornamental business.)

 

[Anonymous]

This year will see many exciting new developments.....

:lol:

It's no joke Rich. Something just launched and will be big news shortly.

 

[Anonymous]

This year will see many exciting new developments.....

:lol:

It's no joke Rich. Something just launched and will be big news shortly.

That would be great. You can understand my being skeptical of those who have traditionally been skeptical.

Remember MAC was no joke and Les was the real deal! :wink:

 

[swsaltwater]

Seamaiden, search for gila bend sweet shrimp. Great shrimp farmed in the desert!!!!!!!!

 

[JennM]

Seamaiden
No reefer would ever dream of eating a tang.

LOL that's rich, Wayne. I keep a 2' panther grouper but I have no problem eating grouper... blackened, please

The LFS I used to work in had a huge unicorn tang in the big display. A friend of ours who happens to be Hawaiian came by one day and when he saw the tang, he told us how he used to go spear fishing for them and that they are good eating.

He nearly shat when we told him that at that size it was about a $400 fish!

I've got at least 10 fish that have been in captivity going on 10 years and about a dozen more that are over 5. I'd better get cooking

Jenn

 

[Mthompson]

Let us know what night you are cooking Jenn. I'd bet many would show up for that, I know I would!

 

[JennM]

Let's see... we have a few kinds of tang, grouper, batfish (he alone could feed 4!)... Fugu... (his name is Yoda)... got 6 Mono argentus that have been in full seawater for about 9 years now... they'd make a plate apiece...

I just got a huge pink-tailed trigger back yesterday that I sold as a wee tyke a few years ago - he's about 12" long now... he'd feed a few too.

By my reckoning (yes, I just said "reckoning" - I've been in the South too long!) I could probably feed about 15 with my collection!

Jenn

 

[Mthompson]

That's kinda unfair though, you have all that retail space (aghhem - i mean grow-out tanks)! The live rock I got over the weekend has about 10 fist-sized mussels living on 'em - I suppose that could be a nice appetizer.....

 

[PeterIMA]

Thales, EASTI turned things around in the village of Les, (on Island of Bali) Indonesia. There are good quality net-caught fish available from Bali. PM me for further information.

Peter

 

[Anonymous]

Thales, EASTI turned things around in the village of Les, (on Island of Bali) Indonesia. There are good quality net-caught fish available from Bali. PM me for further information.

Peter

Great! Where can wholesalers, LFS and hobbyists get these fish?
Is there any documentation of the 'turn around' of Les?

 

[Anonymous]

Seamaiden, search for gila bend sweet shrimp. Great shrimp farmed in the desert!!!!!!!!

Why thank you, I'll be sure to mention this to Dave.