Unless they can find a way to raise shrimp without water I don't know how sustainable desert shrimp farming will be. Last I heard Arizona was having problems with their water supply. You can have a nice lush green lawn in Tucson if you put in a sprinkler system. Sort of like "expecting to grow flowers in the desert". You might be better off buying the certified shrimp from Wally World or better yet go vegan. :wink:
Sea Shepards blasts aquarium trade
- Thread starter clarionreef
- Start date
Thales, The MAC produced lots of documentation. That does not make their claims to be the truth. EASTI turned LES around a year ago, and fish have been routinely shipped to the USA, Canda and the USA since then.
Is there much documentation to show that net-collecting works? Yes, but why repeat it? Ask Steve Robinson or myself for documentation we created from 1984 to 1990. Did it stop the use of cyanide? No, but it can with the proper economic incentives and the proper handling, packing, and shipping methods. That is the news. Come to the Marine Ornamentals Conference in Lake Bueno Vista, Florida from February 9-12th and hear it directly from the experts like Ferdiand Cruz and Steve Robinson.
EASTI has turned things around and there is a growing supply of net-caught fish from Bali, Indonesia.
Peter
Is there much documentation to show that net-collecting works? Yes, but why repeat it? Ask Steve Robinson or myself for documentation we created from 1984 to 1990. Did it stop the use of cyanide? No, but it can with the proper economic incentives and the proper handling, packing, and shipping methods. That is the news. Come to the Marine Ornamentals Conference in Lake Bueno Vista, Florida from February 9-12th and hear it directly from the experts like Ferdiand Cruz and Steve Robinson.
EASTI has turned things around and there is a growing supply of net-caught fish from Bali, Indonesia.
Peter
PeterIMA":2sp04sos said:
Documentation can be checked out. If it turns out to be questionalbe documentation, the the claims are also questionable.
In this case you are making claims, but are offering nothing at all to support them.
I didn't ask if net collecting works - I know it does and there is plenty of evidence to support its working. My question has nothing to do with net collecting, but with anything to back up your claims.
Thats the party line that hasn't seemed to change much for years, and is very similar to the kid of thing you bash MAC for saying.
Thales
I did not reply to your answer to my question. With respect, I found your dictionary post a bit arrogant.
We won't have the 100% proof you need until the CDT is in place.
In the meantime reasonable industry members understand that net collection effort by MAC EASTI and others should be applauded and supported by industry.
I would urge you to support these efforts as the only alternative is the tonnes of cyanide caught fish imported from the Philippines and Indonesia where the use of cyanide is rampant into the US with the blessing of the importers who pretend nothing is wrong.
I did not reply to your answer to my question. With respect, I found your dictionary post a bit arrogant.
We won't have the 100% proof you need until the CDT is in place.
In the meantime reasonable industry members understand that net collection effort by MAC EASTI and others should be applauded and supported by industry.
I would urge you to support these efforts as the only alternative is the tonnes of cyanide caught fish imported from the Philippines and Indonesia where the use of cyanide is rampant into the US with the blessing of the importers who pretend nothing is wrong.
naesco":g880oqk5 said:
I found your post very strange, and thought the definition addressed your question better than anything I could have written.
What are you talking about? I asked for documentation about the claims that Les has turned around, and for where the fish mentioned were obtainable - nothing about proof of a CDT.
Because somebody posted about it on the internet? History has shown that more than word of mouth is needed.
How do you suggest I support these efforts?
Given documentation that these efforts are actually all the said to be, and given a way to actually support those efforts, sure.
Thales, I organized and moderated a sustainability symposium at Marine Ornamentals held in Las Vegas in 2006. I am also participating in the MO08 Conference that will be held in Lake Bueno Vista FL February 9-12th. A proceedings is in preparation that will provide the documentation you seek.
Peter Rubec
Peter Rubec
PeterIMA":mgm8swvc said:
I hate to spoil your show Mr. Rubec But I supposed that this is the same Ferdinand Cruz who ran to the ground one of the export facility here in the Philippines. His last famous act was, he blew half a million pesos in a week and unable to justify it.
Don't shoot the messenger, please. 8)naesco":3jgesciz said:
Sigh. It is absolutely fair to ask people who aren't RDO staff to stop representing themselves as if they are.
I see no post that violates the UA or the UAA at this time. If you see a post that you feel does, feel free to PM RDO staff about it. And, as always, RDO staff may not agree with you - although, from previous discussion, I am sure both you and Peter know that. What you may not know about is the many pm's I get asking me to remove you 'offensive' posts, so you may not want to push for more censorship.
It has already been asked of Dr. Rubec to post documentation of the net caught fish coming out of Indonesia. You can see it here:
http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=108485&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
I was so excited until I learned that the "net caught" fish were only fish that just another individual "said" were net caught. No chain of custody. No documentation. Nothing.
I am in total agreement with Thales on this issue. Post the documentation please. Complete from training, chain of custody and export. If not, there is absolutely no way to differentiate.
http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=108485&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
I was so excited until I learned that the "net caught" fish were only fish that just another individual "said" were net caught. No chain of custody. No documentation. Nothing.
I am in total agreement with Thales on this issue. Post the documentation please. Complete from training, chain of custody and export. If not, there is absolutely no way to differentiate.
PeterIMA":x72y3uoe said:
Hold your fire, Mr. Rubec. Let us find out first, if he is the same person I’m trying to discuss here. All I know is, there’s an export facility here that was financed by certain Mr. Mallari who is a USA resident but is of Philippine origin who got duped in the Ornamental Fish Export business. The guy has money but he has no clue of how the industry operates. And the person who ran the day to day operation was named Ferdinand Cruz. And like I said I don’t know if your F. Cruz is one and the same person who famously burned the half a million pesos( roughly $20K) in a span of one week. Wow!
And now for another topic, are you trying to tell the readers here that you know the situation here better than us Philippine exporters?. Are you trying to be funny or simply a J.A?
But first CDT has to be at least reliable even at 90% level. Second it has to be affordable. So that exporters like me who are willing to dole out a few thousand pesos can do our own test that will help us isolate the source of illegal specimens.
How could you be so sure that the use of chemicals here in the Philippines is rampant? Do you dive here everyday of the week? Oh boy, talk about people who has no clue of the frontline :roll:
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