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Anonymous

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Look at it this way...

They banned all live rock collection in HI. Now only the really dirty underground people deal in it. You know ones that truly give a rats arse about life and laws. Ban all MO fish and those same people will pick up the slack. There will always be a global demand for the HI animals and if banned out right there will be ZERO oversight on the take as it will all be underground smuggler types.

CN is absolutley banned Neasco. No country on the planet allows it's use in the collection of MO.
 

rgbmatt

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spawner":1hf1cxpx said:
This is always going to the be problem when you have a fishery this is essentially open. The fisherman have nothing to stand on unless they have a well organized management group that determines the management rules based on science. Otherwise it goes political, no matter what the truth is and the loudest voice(s) get to makes the rules. I'd suggest that you adopt some type of fishery management system instead of the open system as it is now. It's bad PR at the very least the way it stands.

Absolutely. The trick is that we need to be able to put rules in place that work for us rather than against us.

The bill just got another hearing today, and it looks like the latest draft is still fairly reasonable and, although not perfect, something we could live with. We just need to keep on top of things and make sure that it keeps going that way; there's still plenty of time for Snorkel Bob to sneak in some sort of goofy amendment later on.

Fortunately, while our politicians do need to listen to public opinion, they are still very aware of the fact that science needs to take precedence over emotion. They are also very aware of the fact that we are significant contributors to the state's economy. I'm sure that, one way or another, it'll come out OK in the end. It's a big headache for us right now, though.
 

naesco

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So rgbmatt does it not make sense now to form a Hawaiian industry organization that sets some voluntary rules for itself.
Prohibition of collecting certain species.
Prohibition of selling to Hawaiian or stateside industry that are responsible for the emaciated tang problem that is a cancer to otherwise a good industry.
Doesn't it make sense to keep large adult angels in the sea breeding rather then collecting them when they have little chance of survival in hobbyists tanks.

While it is true that the collection of cyanide fish, and those involved with them, remains the number one cancer to our hobby, doen't it make sense for Hawaii to stand out as an example for others at all times rather than just when Government threatens intervention.
 

rgbmatt

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You know, this is like talking to a brick wall. How many times do I have to say this? The overwhelming majority of us do not catch those fish.

The anti-aquarium bunch is not concerned with picky details like that - taking fish from the ocean and keeping them in tanks is what they object to. We have bigger things to worry about right now, such as retaining the ability to earn a living.
 

StevenPro

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Race":1r6iue9m said:
This type of promotion for the hobby should have been a task for AMDA's promotional arm---- but instead they chose to fight the internet on behalf of the retailers---and lost!

Does AMDA still exist?
 

dizzy

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Steven you should check with Burton Patrick on that. I saw an email not too long ago from John Tullock asking about AMDA. Seems like John is doing some consulting for a company rearing clownfish. Perhaps Race can get with John and convince him the standards of practice should no longer apply. You know stuff like getting the fish to eat before you send them out the door. That way the dropshipping won't matter. So at any rate it isn't far for you to drive to drop by and speak with Burton or make a local phone call.
Regards,
Mitch
 
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Anonymous

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Get with John and do what, ask Burton? John hasn't had any AMDA ties in years, heck, even before you were on the BOD IIRC.
 

dizzy

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Well he can start by asking John what he meant by this:

"I understand the issues you express regarding the Catch-22 for independent stores. I always wanted AMDA to be for independents, to help them gain an advantage, however small, against the competition from the mass merchandisers. It sounds to me like you don’t think it would be worthwhile to try to bring AMDA’s mission into focus with these needs.



On the other hand, if you believe that AMDA can still accomplish something positive, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts as you have the time and inclination to share them."

PS If someone is interested in contacting John about this matter send me your email address and I give you John's.
Mitch
 

Race

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Mitch,
Just as in pharmacy and most other retail, the small independents will never gain an advantage, they are becoming history. I cannot think of one instance where small independents have outperformed those with the money and clout. The manufactures are in business to sell and the bigger the account, the more the price incentives. Bigger retail companies will buy better, generally allowing stronger margins. It always happens, even if they deny it, and I mean always. This is not unique to the aquarium trade.

AMDA would be far better off to include those who can provide some cash and then use it to promote the common good of the hobby. Let Petsmart, Walmart, and Petco in, they are the ones with the clout. The independents, other than those with multiple stores have little to offer in the way of marketing the industry or providing support for an organization such as AMDA.

Tons of money floating around APPMA but the kickbacks and promotional dollars go to the larger accounts, not the small and midsized independents, who generally do not even attend. We fight for our discount share at every transaction. Either discount it or sell it to someone else, that is how it works.

Fortunately for this industry it is small and not too enticing for many of the major players, example Target and Walmart. Even those who play tend not to devote huge resources to the marine trade, too small and vulnerable to the green movement. Watch PetCo as an example, they dabble but they will exit at the first sign of bad press. Petsmart did it in small animal, just this week, all as a result of the PETA epose. Many industry vendors are small too and that tends to level the playing field somewhat. Despite this, it is changing and will continue. Any growth in this industry will be sopped up by the larger players, they and I will devote more resources IF the hobby grows, the sales will not be left for the mom and pop shop.

What I am trying to say is--- as the industry grows, if it does, the larger players will get stronger and the mom and pops will die even a quicker death. That is the Walgreen effect and just the way the retail economy is designed and works.

Growth may not actually be good for the aquarium trade and for sure it will increase attention to sustainability and GREEN issues. We cannot win that battle either. It is impossible to defend the ocean collection of specimens for personal profit. I would not even attempt an arguement as it is not logical. We need to improve our image and protect and care for what we have, expansion through wild harvest should not be the goal.

Promote aquaculture and better healthcare. Focus on what we are fortunate enough to harvest so that it lives longer. Educate and get the slop vendors and wholesalers out of the industry. I hope PETA gets em, let em die. They paint a bad image for all of us. Eliminate those who do not sell specimens of such quality capable of carrying an honorable guarantee. Let PETA hammer on etailers and retailers with bad husbandry practices. Push quality and guaranteed livestock right down the line to the consumer. Improve it.

We, all of us, are killing too much livestock. Stop buying the low quality fish and coral that comes into California and Florida. Leave it for the oceans and keep it out of the hobby. Avoid cheap livestock. Support the good wholesalers such as Quality Marine and others. It is the cheap, inferior livestock that dies and ruins our image. If the market shrinks, so be it as long as quality improves. That would be a healthy trade off.

Enough said, time to clean it up-----Race
 

dizzy

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Race,
I don't disagree with you. Steven had asked about AMDA and I was trying to tell him what I know, which ain't much. John Tullock is doing some consulting for a company called Sustainable Aquatics (clownfish hatchery) I believe. I get the feeling John still hopes someone will pick up the ball and run with it. I'll be happy to give you his email address if you want to try and revive it in some form.
Mitch
 

PeterIMA

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If aqua culture, sustainable collection and an absolute bar to cyanide collection was promoted, industry would have a fighting chance at surviving.

Wayne, I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement.

Peter
 

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