Sumps/pumps/closed loops.

[spaulr]

First off this org has a ton of usefull info on it. Wish it was around 14 years ago when I started. I finally broke down my 40 gallon when my 13 year old Passer Angel finally died. I never knew they would last that long. On to the point of the post...

I was wondering if someone could help me out with a sump question. I currently have a 40 gallon tru vu aquasystem (~13 years old). I'd like to redesign plumbing of the tank to take advantage of a sump+skimmer and add a closed loop (drilling the plexi) to the tank as I am sick of powerheads. The tank currently has a wet/dry (bioballs) build into in.

I am considering drilling two intakes: 1 for the closed loop and 1 for the sump and skimmer. Any suggestions? I'd like to keepsoft corals and maybe some stoney corals in the tank.

 

[Anonymous]

Go for it

There are a lot of threads in the DIY forum about drilling tanks.

I am going to be drilling a 20 and a 45 this coming weekend.

Is this an acrylic tank? IF so its even easier to drill than mine are. Mine are glass and have to be done rather carefully.

You need an inlet and outlet for both your sump and your closed loop unless you are having the returns come over the top of the back.

Any more questions just ask, have FUN!

 

[spaulr]

Yes, it is an acrylic tank, so the drilling should be cake. I just want to make sure I put the instakes in the correct place. I haven't decided whether I want the returns to come up over the top or not. It seems a like you have a little more flexibility if you do it that way, plus less holes to drill. I'll check out the DIY forum on the drilling.

 

[Anonymous]

OH, plan out how you are going to filter the water that drains to the sump too. You need some way to keep fish out of it. Come up with that plan before you drill too.

I didn't

:lol:

 

[spaulr]

I've thought a little bit about this, but since there is a wet/dry filter built into the tank (on the inside) I'm not sure how to encorporate that into my overall sump/filter design. I've been reading a lot about wet/dry filtrqation being nitrate factories and not good filters for a reef tank. Although, I must admit I never had problems with nitrates before...

So If I abandon the wet/dry, what can I use that space for... light filter pad and a pre-sump area?

 

[Anonymous]

Is it sizeable enough for a refugium?

If not, you could always just drop some rock in it instead of the usual bioball routine..

 

[spaulr]

How big does a refugium need to be for a 40 gallon? If I put live rock in the tank (30-40 lbs) doesn't the tank become a refugium? Refugiums are new for me... In other words WHY would I want to make a refugium if I have live rock in the tank? What benefits do I get from it?

 

[Anonymous]

Its a place for little creatures to grow and multiply where big creatures like fish can't get to them. The water is pumped in and usually gravity fed back out to the tank, that way every once in a while these little pods and such happen to float out into the main tank and provide food.

my tank had thousands of pods at one time.

They are about all gone now....

 

[spaulr]

Ok, that makes sense to me, and to some extent I think my wet/dry became a type of refugium. Just not for "nice" critters, but for bristle worms.

So how big would I need to make this for a 40 gallon tank and is that something you'd recommend for a 40 gallon. It seems like overkill to me. But from my previous experience (which is limited) doing everything you can afford helps out in the long run.

 

[Anonymous]

Absolutely not necessary to have a refugium in order to have a great tank. However, keeping certain types of fish is nigh unto impossible unless you have some method of growing their food. Mandarins come to mind. My wife wants a mandarin, and I won't let her have one because I have no way to put a refugium on the tank that she will aprove of the looks of. So, we just stick to fish that don't need specialized food.

 

[Omni2226]

I know this has nothing to do with the intank space but couldnt you take a largeish size box/power filter, remove the filters, drop some very small lr chuncks in it to get a mini refuge? For a 50 and under gallon tank seems like it might work.

 

[spaulr]

Thanks for the info. I don't plan on getting any fish that require special attention like that. I went through some painful "needy" fish experiences already (haven't we all?). I think I'll forgo the refugium. Unless of course I need it for soft/stoney corals?

If i don't need it for corals, should I continue to use the wet/dry filtration in the back of the tank and use the protein skimmer in my sump? OR eliminate the wet/dry and just use the sump for filtration and skimming?

 

[spaulr]

Here's my design so far. Let me know what you think.

 

[Anonymous]

Is the sump watertight?

I don't really know what a wet dry is so let me just ask you this. IF you turn off the power to everything, how much water will drain out of the top tank?

 

[spaulr]

The sump is a 20 gallon glass tank.

The wet dry used to be some fibre rolls that water drips over through a tray with bioballs below. Water is then pumped back into the tank via chamber next to the bio balls. It's a fancy name for a filtration system.

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_fil ... sp?CartId=

My fish tank had one built into it when I bought it years ago. I still need to figure out how much water will drain out when the power is off. I'd like to be able to keep the closed loop running while the sump/skimmer is off for cleaning.

 

[Anonymous]

Move your drain to the sump either higher, or put an overflow enclosure around it. That is, if there isin't something there already.

You want a minimal drain to the sump when the power goes off.

Mine drains about 5 gallons when the power goes off, so my 20 gallon sump is filled to 15 gallons normally.

 

[ChrisRD]

If you're going to have live rock in the setup and a good skimmer you won't need the wet/dry and it will likely do more harm than good IMO.

As for the plumbing, ditto what Bryan said about the drain. The other thing that will effect how much water drains from the display when power is off is your return plumbing. The display tank will drain until the water level lowers enough to allow air into the opening of the return plumbing and breaks the syphon.

 

[spaulr]

Thanks everyone for your help!!! These are exactly the answers I was looking for. This sight has a ton of useful stuff on it. I just need to stop reading and get some work done.

I do have another question about the wet/dry. Why might it be harmful? Because of the nitrate potential? If I don't use that portion built into the tank for the wet dry, WHAT could I use it for? A pre-sump area that does some minor filtration prior to going into the input of the sump (which I definitely will move higher to avoid unwanted leakage. Maybe I should take a picture so everyone gets a better idea of what it looks like.

Steffen

 

[Anonymous]

Pictures are great!

 

[ChrisRD]

Even if the chamber is empty it will make a nice little refugium area (ie. a place where pods, etc. can breed without being eaten by fish...