side by side sump question

clownlover

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im thinking of a tank to build in the future . i want it to be 96 x 36 x 30 but i dont want to deal with a traditional seperate tank sump because i want to limit possible disastors. i was thinking of basically sectioning off the tank by placing a baffle that has overflow top slots 2 feet into the tank. so basically the tank would be 72 long and the sump would be the remaining 24 x 36 x 30 long. basically a 115 gallon sump built right into the tank. since yje tank would be used as a room seperator i could build a cabinet around the first 2 feet thats butting against the wall so that part is hidden. the whole point is that in the event of some sort of failure its all in one system no over flowing would occur. does anyone do this? is their a simpler way to accomplish this?
 

reefman

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that sounds good. but if overflowing is your only concern, u can always just get a large enough sump that can handle the extra water volume if the pumps fail.
most people like to maximize their tank space for corals n fishes.
 
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KathyC

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You'd also have a problem trying to run 2 different light cycles, one for the tank and one for the sump. Also potential issues with micro bubbles with your water only running over 1 baffle into the display portion of your tank.
 

fritz

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Either I read this wrong of everyone else did. As I understand it you are making an all in one tank. You're turn a 6 foot tank into a 4 foot tank.

Yes this is done by a few manufacturers and used to be a common practice in reefkeeping back in the late 80s - 90s. DAS aquariums still makes theirs in this manner. It's actually really cool and there's a member of this board who has a DAS aquarium. Please post pics of the "journey" in building this. I'm very interested and there are some members on here that could use a system like this. Your instructions would be most beneficial.
 

KathyC

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I think we 'all' (gee, all 2 of us?? lol) read it right Fritz. Reefman is suggesting using a seperate sump that is big enough to house any extra water volume so that flooding isn't a concern. And I had concerns about the lighting of the 2 sections with them being right next to each other, and a bubble issue since (I would assume) all of his equipment..reactors, skimmer & whatever would be running in & out of the adjoining 'sump' section of the same tank.
I'd like to see pics of how this was done in the past too!
 

lfsmarineguy

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Steve Tyree sets up all his tanks like this with a single tank with built in filtration. They are pretty interesting and if setup properly work very well. I would do some research on his setups and maybe model yours after his (why mess with success). You're essentially building a ginormous (now a real word lol) nano cube. Also, as a side note Steve doesn't use overflows there is just a baffle to let water through that seperates the two regions allowing constant flow in both parts.
 

kimoyo

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Clownlover - I like the idea of this. I was planning to do my next tank this way. Like Kathy said, I think you'd have to worry about bubbles back in the tank. But I also think you will loose aeration from not having the water go into an overflow and down in the sump. Whether those issues are of enough concern for you not to do it is up to you.
 

Chiefmcfuz

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My LFS has a tank like this that has been running for years. Acrylic baffle with teeth on top serves as the overflow, the watter falls through a sponge to the carbon chamber and then pumped out the bottom with a powerhead. It's a fowler tank. no reef so he has no skimmer and the macro algae is in the main tank. It is a really cool tank, My aquapod is similar in design if you're looking to do this on a larger scale look at some of the nano's they can give you some ideas as well!
 

kimoyo

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To be more specific, Tyree advocated (advocates?) using his zonal approach to filtration. Which use cryptic sponges and sea squirts for primary filtration and discourages things like skimmers. So if there isn't a skimmer in the system then microbubbles won't be such an issue. Is there a skimmer in the system your talking about. But at the same time it might be a harder system for people to get started/maintain. Lights, flow, everything would have to change and be thought out differently. More importantly, what sizes are we talking about, would the sump area have to be the same size as the main tank (which clownlover said he wasn't going to do)? But first I guess you would have to ask how much of the system you agree with. And to be frank, I haven't paid the money to get a copy of tyree's books to see the details, yet alone getting the reef aquarium book to see the preview.

So if at all possible, instead of just giving a reference to a book chapter (which I haven't read) please help us understand if this is even feasible with the current size constraints.
 

clownlover

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thanks for the ideas i got the book and am reading thru it. i dont see the big deal about microbubbles, if you r deadset against seeing any arent there bubble baffles which rid them? its a moot point for me anyway because ( and id rather this not turn into a pro or anti skimmer thread since there are dozens out there ) i run really light skimming now and am considering nixing skimming all together and seeing what the effects are.
 

kimoyo

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thanks for the ideas i got the book and am reading thru it. i dont see the big deal about microbubbles, if you r deadset against seeing any arent there bubble baffles which rid them? its a moot point for me anyway because ( and id rather this not turn into a pro or anti skimmer thread since there are dozens out there ) i run really light skimming now and am considering nixing skimming all together and seeing what the effects are.

Clownlover,

This is a discussion forum and your not the only one thinking of doing this. In fact we just had a discussion about doing this three weeks ago.

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/general-discussion/27664-next-years-tank.html

The point is not moot because its not only about what you do. When you post on this forum others will read the thread and hopefully learn from it also. If your going to post for help, please be willing to help others. Instead of lfsmarineguy saying just get a book, or you saying I'm reading it, it would be extremely helpful if one of you could just give a small few sentence overview on something that is being advocated. I'm not even sure what ideas lfsmarineguy has helped you with since he's only referenced a book.

I know your new here and you might not have seen my postings before but I'm not going to argue over some skimmer debate, I don't have the time to. I don't care what filtration you use, if you don't want to use a skimmer, please shout it from the rooftops and I won't pay attention.

But I am interested in understanding how to handle the situation if someone does use a skimmer, such as LeslieS or myself. I also think the majority of people don't want to see bubbles in the tank and no, in this situation depending on the skimmer that is used, bubble baffles might not be sufficient. But also if you do something like the zonal approach, how much water volume space do you have to reserve for filtration. For me this is most important because if I go with a 4' tank and have to use 3' of it for filtration then I'm not going to want to do that.

Thanks
 
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clownlover

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Clownlover,

This is a discussion forum and your not the only one thinking of doing this. In fact we just had a discussion about doing this three weeks ago.

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/general-discussion/27664-next-years-tank.html

The point is not moot because its not only about what you do. When you post on this forum others will read the thread and hopefully learn from it also. If your going to post for help, please be willing to help others. Instead of lfsmarineguy saying just get a book, or you saying I'm reading it, it would be extremely helpful if one of you could just give a small few sentence overview on something that is being advocated. I'm not even sure what ideas lfsmarineguy has helped you with since he's only referenced a book.

I know your new here and you might not have seen my postings before but I'm not going to argue over some skimmer debate, I don't have the time to. I don't care what filtration you use, if you don't want to use a skimmer, please shout it from the rooftops and I won't pay attention.

But I am interested in understanding how to handle the situation if someone does use a skimmer, such as LeslieS or myself. I also think the majority of people don't want to see bubbles in the tank and no, in this situation depending on the skimmer that is used, bubble baffles might not be sufficient. But also if you do something like the zonal approach, how much water volume space do you have to reserve for filtration. For me this is most important because if I go with a 4' tank and have to use 3' of it for filtration then I'm not going to want to do that.

Thanks

me saying its a moot point is referring to microbubbles since i wont be dealing with them. so for me its a moot point. im sorry if my question about my situation didnt answer your questions too, i will try in the future to have both of our questions answered at the same time.
 

kimoyo

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all it said in the book was a 2 page description of the cryptic zone that tyree runs. it basically is a sectioned off tank width wise that he mimics the cryptic zone of a reef, so its dark, has lots of rocks and he grows sponges and tunicates to clean the water.intresting concept bc i think the better u can mimic the ocean ecosystem the better ur tank will be (obviously) but i dont really get it because w a skimmer u remove the skimmate from the system but with this approach im not sure how u ultimately get the DOC out of the water. but how he sectioned the tank is exactly how i want to do it.


I know you erased most of your message but what you were asking is why I was asking. From what I gathered so far there are some drawbacks to doing his system if this is your only tank, namely aesthetics. He's sells corals so his approach might not be right for some situations. And like you referred to, I haven't figure out how he exports nutrients not that a skimmer gets everything. I made a post about it here,

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/general-discussion/28519-tyrees-zonal-approach.html

and meschaefer posted a link to an informative RC thread. I haven't read all the references in there yet but will post back after I do. I'm planning to make my tank next week so its helpful to get as much info as possible. Right now I'm thinking a combination of approaches might be best.
 
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