budhaboy's new 65 gallon system

[Anonymous]

okay, anybody that has been peeking at Tom(Escaped Ape)'s 64 gallon thread likely knows that he and others have gotten me reinfected with the reef bug(again) so as to not take up more space in his thread I'm starting mine own. Please bear with me as I've just laid down the deposit on the tank(65 gallon RR AGA, black trim and stand) and I have both X-mas and a wedding to also vie for my wallet. So. as to that, here's my starting questions and plans

65 gallon Reef Ready tank, by AGA(stand also)

I still have all my MHs(previous builds, mine and former customers) - dunno which wattage to go with just yet - I have a pair of 100 watt, a single 175, pair of 250s and I think a 400 watt system in the garage, plus 2 no flour. ballasts and 2 vho ballasts...question is, do I sell them off and invest in LEDs, or go with what I have and know quite well?(I'm likely building the hood, so height requirements arent an issue here, as I can build to suit whichever lighting methods get chosen)

Next is the sump, buy or build from scratch, or simply build one from a pre-existing tank?(the easier being of course, simply putting baffles in a pre-existing tank)
as far as a skimmer goes, I do have an old Berlin in sump, needs a new collection cup and pump, but I saw an add for a Current USA Fission Recirculating skimmer, for $125...it was pretty nice looking, despite being unusually inexpensive as far as skimmers go, but I have no experience with the recirc type skimmers. Any input? (I dont really want to go with the Berlin I have, cause I'm skittish about being jinxed with used equipment that has been in contact with water - if it touches the water, I want to be guaranteed its never touched copper or any other heavy metal)
[rimg]http://www.marineandreef.com/v/vspfiles/photos/RCU08106-2T.jpg[/rimg]

there was also a cone skimmer on a DIY site - all the parts are laser cut, you build it, that seemed nice too, and the prices for cone skimmer are outlandish
http://www.avastmarine.com/ssc/do/produ ... kimmer-Kit

Havent decided on return pumps yet either...should I stick with what I know(Mag Drives) or should I go with externals?

and I've already started looking at, and pricing rock - thinking of starting with between 40 and 50 lbs, depending on what types...

 

[Anonymous]

My view has always been to stay in-sump (basically, mag) return unless the sump is either in the basement (and the tank is on another floor) or its a 200+ gallon system.

It'll be a while before I'm ready to jump back in though.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey JP, good to see you getting started. I'd stick with MH if I were you. I think LED are definitely exciting and potentially can save a lot of money on electrical bills in the long term, but if you already have the MH fixtures, I'm not sure the savings would be that great once you've shelled out on a decent LED fixture. It also depends what you intend to keep. It seems to me from what I've read that actually one of the problems with LED fixtures now is not that they're not bright, it's that they're really bright. So if you have coral that prefer slighter dimmer conditions are going to get bleached. In fact I'm sure I've read cases where people are getting SPS bleached under LEDs. Plus, as CJ said in the other thread, getting the coverage you need over a 3' tank is going to be pricey.

As for skimmers, I don't know anything about the type you posted, but do know that the Octopus Reef skimmers have a great reputation. If that's your preferred budget, then the Super Reef Skimmer I have might be a bit over your budget, but the Octopus NW series also has a good rep. They're very similar, but come with different pumps. The 110 model (good for 100g supposedly) comes in only $10 over your DIY cone. I was also considering the Vertex Internal Pinwheel series, but the right model for a 65g comes in at more like $200.

Keep on thinking out loud in this thread and we'll keep on giving you more food for thought. I found the planning process one of the funnest bits of the process.

 

[Anonymous]

the tank is a standard 65 rr from AGA/Aqueon(their new name?) so its 36x18x24 -
so as far as lighting, I'll use my MHs. which, though, should I go with a single 250, pair, or the single 400? I'm planning on building the canopy, so height isnt an issue, so really I'm just trying to consider best coverage without being too intense...

I still havent made a decision on the skimmer, I like the idea behind the recircs, but I'll look into the Octopus skimmers.

Okay, so, stay with Mags(or the equiv) for the return pump. Question - I have previously used a SCWD(or is it Q?) on a nano, and liked the alternating current, with the use of a Super Squirt(2500gph max), will it be possible to have a high volume return, and not have any other current devices in tank? again, this is the first sump I've used at home - will the overflow(standard size) be able to handle say a mag 24?(that would give me about 36x flow) or should I invest in a vortec or two?(with the S.Squirt it would be feasible to utilize both the drain and return holes as two drains, if that would improve the drain rate)
Basically, I'd like there to be no equipment in the display, but if needed, I'll deal with a ph or two...

 

[Anonymous]

I went with a Tunze Silence return pump, which does the job fine. I'd heard that maybe the mags weren't as good as they used to be, but I wouldn't too much credit in that without doing some searching yourself. Though I seem to remember there's precious little info out there about return pumps. Simply not sexy enough I guess.

A couple of Vortechs would set you back, but then so would Tunze Streams and the Vortechs probably come out as cheaper because the controller is built in. I've never used a SCWD, so couldn't comment.

What are your stocking plans for the tank? Some coral will prefer more turbulent, high flow conditions, some prefer it a little gentler. Fish too.

Oh, and I'd definitely go 2 x 250w over a tank with those dimensions. A 400w would severely restrict your options I'd think (unless you plan to go all SPS).

 

[Anonymous]

I'm thinking a mixed - some SPS on the upper tiers, with the mid and lower tiers filled with LPS and Softies...never really did SPS at home, but I want to

Aquascape- the idea at the moment is two islands, one with a largish overhang maybe...dont want to do the wall of rock bit - been there done that yadda yadda yadda.

Other than the tank, nothing else yet is set in stone...just trying to be economicable...

 

[Anonymous]

I think you'd be fine with 2 x 250w then and possibly heading for overkill with a 400w. The Vortechs would be ideal for a tank with SPS I'd imagine, though they might end up being the most expensive bit of the tank if you're doing the rest on a budget (but quite possibly worth it...).

 

[Anonymous]

It seems to me from what I've read that actually one of the problems with LED fixtures now is not that they're not bright, it's that they're really bright. So if you have coral that prefer slighter dimmer conditions are going to get bleached. In fact I'm sure I've read cases where people are getting SPS bleached under LEDs.

There are currently two extremes in LED lighting, with almost nothing in the middle. On the one end you have products like Ecoxotics and Elos which are comparatively low output. They get the job done, but don't compare to halides and real light lovers need to kept near the top of the tank directly under the fixtures. On the other extreme, you have Aqua Illumination... at 100% output they blow halides away. To light a 3' tank with those though you'd have to spend at least $1300... and $1900 would be more appropriate. Also, the physical fixtures and their mounting options are damned ugly.

The chinese made MAXspect fixtures seem to manage the middle of the road both price and output wise, but are designed in such a way they won't have the longevity you'd expect or want from a LED fixture. Initial reports are that individual LEDs on those burn out within months in many cases.

 

[Anonymous]

holey mackeral! I didnt realise the Vortecs were so damned expensive... I was thinking they were the cheaper alternative to the Tunze equipment...wowsers was I wrong...
okay so I'm still wanting an alternating current in tank...I'd rather not have power heads in the tank, but I suppose if the Super Squirt and Mag 24(or equiv) isnt feasible, then thats the way to go then...


yeah, LEDs are still out of the price ranges I'm able to go with. I have a sugarmomma, but I'm not greedy or selfish.

 

[Anonymous]

When I was wondering whether I could afford Tunzes/Vortech level powerheads (it really was a bit touch and go at one stage), I was seriously thinking about the modded maxijet option ("sureflow") http://premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-supplies/AF-SF1600.html. Or Koralia, which have the same wide flow, but are the budget option. http://premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-supply/Koralia-evo.html

 

[Anonymous]

yeah, LEDs are still out of the price ranges I'm able to go with. I have a sugarmomma, but I'm not greedy or selfish.

AI fixtures are at the high end, price wise. Partly because they do pay royalties to the aquarium LED patent people (the ones who put PFO out of business) so they can legally sell them. At the cheaper end, you could do four or five PAR38 bulbs at $120 each, you'd just have to find an appropriate light fixture to screw them into.

Vortechs are expensive but nice. On a 3 foot mixed tank if it were me I'd probably go with two MP10s or one MP40. Can't comment on your other options, but I'm sure others will chime in.

 

[Anonymous]

yeah I was just gonna mention the Hydor/Koralia route- their controller is still pricey, but doable I think...maybe...

no comments on the possiblities of a high volume(mag 24 equiv.) with a super squirt ?

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I was quite surprised at how pricey the Koralia controller and control-able powerheads were. You might be better off looking at two MP10s as CJ suggested.

I have experience with the Sea Squirt either. I think the downside is that you don't get the lovely powerful yet diffuse flow you get with Vortechs/Tunzes/Koralia.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I was quite surprised at how pricey the Koralia controller and control-able powerheads were. You might be better off looking at two MP10s as CJ suggested.

I have experience with the Sea Squirt either. I think the downside is that you don't get the lovely powerful yet diffuse flow you get with Vortechs/Tunzes/Koralia.

plenty of time to research it...I guess I'll do some looking at other people's setups for a bit

 

[Anonymous]

yeah I was just gonna mention the Hydor/Koralia route- their controller is still pricey, but doable I think...maybe...

no comments on the possiblities of a high volume(mag 24 equiv.) with a super squirt ?

I'm not personally familiar with the mag 24 OR the squirt but if it'll run ok with pulsing back pressure (that I would imagine the squirt would produce) I would think you'd be fine.

Edit: Other options are out there too but I haven't done those either. - Motorized maxi-jet mods for instance...

 

[Anonymous]

problem is(with the squirt), I'm not sure I want THAT much flow through the sump.

 

[Anonymous]

I had two SCWD's on my 110. They suck. The switching mechanism is flow driven and creates lots of losses in the volume of flow. They will also jamb and or clog up since the drive gears are really small.

I had one of those externally drive current switchers on my 60 cube and like it much better. The name escapes me right now,

 

[Anonymous]

That's right it was the ocean motion squirt. Much better device even tho it is more expensive.

 

[Anonymous]

Koralia's become noisey. I hate them.

I have a vortech MP10 and a Tunze nano-stream on my 24. They are booth awesome. The nano stream is pretty cheap too, IIRC.

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

I had two SCWD's on my 110. They suck. The switching mechanism is flow driven and creates lots of losses in the volume of flow. They will also jamb and or clog up since the drive gears are really small.

Yes, SCWD's can be a pain, I went thru 5 of them before I finally had one that worked reasonably well for a fairly decent amount of time.

But, they are also cheap.

The key thing with them (at least in my experience) is tuning the pump that feeds them.