PI vs. Indo- Death Match Part 2!!

[mkirda]

If an exporter from the Philippines sends a shipment to the U.S with a false invoice, lets say $US1,000, (real value of fish is $US2,000) what is the value the U.S importer declares? Does the U.S. impoter get a $ benefit from this false invoice?

If he is playing the game, he would declare $1000 instead of $2000.
Of course- He pays half the taxes he should.

This illegal practice of false invoicing is well known. This is a very serious offence. An important sector of this industry is not only ripping off the coral reef ecosystem and exploiting poor fish collectors, but also ripping off the system by avoiding taxes..

I don't think it is well-known or all that widespread.
Ripping off the system?
Never over-estimated those charitable contributions on that tax return, Jaime? Or accepted a cash payment that never contributed to your income statement?

If we know about it what we must do? By being silent we become accomplices of this fraudulent operation. How is getting benefit from this non sense?

Call 911.
Benefit? Cheaper fish. Or not- I have no idea what the import tariff is in the US on MO fish. If 0%, then no benefit whatsoever. If >0%, then cheaper fish.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Guys,
Its a Philippine exporters practice and they have been doing it for 40 years. The head of the exporters association is a friend of Jaimes and since this is a thread kept up by him alone....I say he contact Lolita Ty of the Philippine exporters association.
He seems to think that we would have influence over someone like her so he can be the first to try. As she has fronted for and covered for the cyanide trade during her entire career and more recently as the vice president of MAC...I doubt if she'll be forthcoming.
Jaimes call to launch a crusade on this was just too funny. ROFL :lol:


Go JAIME, GO!
Steve

 

[kylen]

Steve,

My experience has been that practice is not the sole property of the Philippine exporters. I have had four exporting areas offer altered invoices, including American suppliers. Maybe for me, they are acting on prior requests from other Canadian importers.

 

[clarionreef]

Kylen,
Maybe the CANADIAN IMPORTERS were trying to save a few quid to donate to the NET FUND.
DONATE FOR A BUNDLE AND BUY SOME ABSOLUTION!
The fund is accounted for by our treasurer Liz Harris at the Florida adress given on the NET FuND threads.
Steve

 

[kylen]

That's pretty funny :wink: . Like I said...pay now or pay later.

 

[Anonymous]

I am sure Steve and GrehsmanH know who does it

Jaime, I don't know who does it, but I do know it happens. Our shippers are smaller people in the game, and don't recieve any benifit from mis-declaring an invoice. The smaller you are, the more you have to loose (harder to pay fines, etc.) when exporting/importing. The bigger guys can pay fines, bribes, etc. all day long with out even breaking a sweat. My rib concerning pro-forma incoives is that SO many (NGO's, government groups and "reformers") build their campaign around the GMD which is fuelled by the big importers/exporters giving there bogus pro-forma invoices to it. GMD is built on fraud, so, any who use its numbers are helping fuel the fraud PLUS building their campaigns around fraud. So you see, I was ROFL when you, Jaime, posted numbers from the GMD as you were building your current campaign/rant around it :wink: . Go, Jaime, go!!!

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Guys,
Its a Philippine exporters practice and they have been doing it for 40 years. The head of the exporters association is a friend of Jaimes and since this is a thread kept up by him alone....I say he contact Lolita Ty of the Philippine exporters association.
He seems to think that we would have influence over someone like her so he can be the first to try. As she has fronted for and covered for the cyanide trade during her entire career and more recently as the vice president of MAC...I doubt if she'll be forthcoming.
Jaimes call to launch a crusade on this was just too funny. ROFL :lol:


Go JAIME, GO!
Steve

The idea is to let people know another "obscure" aspect of the trade. Obscure aspect that you have known for many decades but have done nothing to denounce it. I wonder why? Where you part of it?

Go Robinson Go!

 

[Jaime Baquero]

I am sure Steve and GrehsmanH know who does it

Jaime, I don't know who does it, but I do know it happens. Our shippers are smaller people in the game, and don't recieve any benifit from mis-declaring an invoice. The smaller you are, the more you have to loose (harder to pay fines, etc.) when exporting/importing. The bigger guys can pay fines, bribes, etc. all day long with out even breaking a sweat. My rib concerning pro-forma incoives is that SO many (NGO's, government groups and "reformers") build their campaign around the GMD which is fuelled by the big importers/exporters giving there bogus pro-forma invoices to it. GMD is built on fraud, so, any who use its numbers are helping fuel the fraud PLUS building their campaigns around fraud. So you see, I was ROFL when you, Jaime, posted numbers from the GMD as you were building your current campaign/rant around it :wink: . Go, Jaime, go!!!

Disclosing those numbers is not fraud. Readers can see another obscure aspect of the trade. Nobody, yes, nobody said anything about this before. Your boss has known it for decades. Hmmmmm Why he didn't denounce it?

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Guys,
Its a Philippine exporters practice and they have been doing it for 40 years. The head of the exporters association is a friend of Jaimes and since this is a thread kept up by him alone....I say he contact Lolita Ty of the Philippine exporters association.
He seems to think that we would have influence over someone like her so he can be the first to try. As she has fronted for and covered for the cyanide trade during her entire career and more recently as the vice president of MAC...I doubt if she'll be forthcoming.
Jaimes call to launch a crusade on this was just too funny. ROFL :lol:


Go JAIME, GO!
Steve

The idea is to let people know another "obscure" aspect of the trade. Obscure aspect that you have known for many decades but have done nothing to denounce it. I wonder why? Where you part of it?

Go Robinson Go!

Better to write the question the way it should be.

Were you part of it?

 

[clarionreef]

Denouncing fraud?
You're kidding right?
Every time I do that you get upset!

Actually, I have revealed the misdeclarations on declared invoices a number of times, including here on RDO.

Also to the lead agent of the US Fish and Wildlife Service in L.A. which resulted in illegal harrassment from said agent. After spilling the beans on him a red flag went up and HE went to jail for smuggling reptiles with a marinefish importer.

Getting in trouble for revealing the truth of matters 'best left alone' has been the hallmark of my company policy for 24 years!
Cyanide expose, food fish cyanide expose, getting muro-ami banned, revealing anomalies in training budgets in so called environmental groups etc.
You do this one Jaime. Its small...its token, its easy and its safe.
Right up your alley.
Steve

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Denouncing fraud?
You're kidding right?
Every time I do that you get upset!

Actually, I have revealed the misdeclarations on declared invoices a number of times, including here on RDO.

Also to the lead agent of the US Fish and Wildlife Service in L.A. which resulted in illegal harrassment from said agent. After spilling the beans on him a red flag went up and HE went to jail for smuggling reptiles with a marinefish importer.

Getting in trouble for revealing the truth of matters 'best left alone' has been the hallmark of my company policy for 24 years!
Cyanide expose, food fish cyanide expose, getting muro-ami banned, revealing anomalies in training budgets in so called environmental groups etc.
You do this one Jaime. Its small...its token, its easy and its safe.
Right up your alley.
Steve

I agree with PMs sent by readers saying how disgusting is the way you are treating me, but don't worry friends, I won't get that low. Also agree with what one of you said, I quote " The lumbering dinosaur should just lay down and turn to stone"

 

[PeterIMA]

Jaime, I sat in on most of the discussions with Ferdinand and other reformists. There is the possability of a ban, but it may not happen right away. Lino Alvarez of the MAC confirmed to me that there is high level interest in a ban among government officials. I guess a lot depends on what the MAC does over the next few months. Lino Alvarez is quite influential with government officials (such as the Head of BFAR, Atty. Malcolm Sarmiento). The MAC convinced the government that it could reform the trade. The MAC needs to reform the trade by taking positive actions to ensure that net-training and CDT are implemented.

In my opinion, that requires funding net-training by contracting NGOs such as EASI, AMDA and/or CORL. They also need to convince BFAR to reimplement the CDT network. The best way to accomplish that would be for BFAR to issue another contract to the IMA.

Peter

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Peter,

Many thanks for giving such a positive, brief and concrete report. When reading it, I see hope. Fortunately, you were there.

 

[clarionreef]

Jaime,
You challenged me to denounce the fraud...
Don't do that if you don't mean it.
Steve

 

[clarionreef]

You're right about the inside man at BFAR Peter,
By placating BFAR with the placement of their own man inside the office, Director Sarmiento has been 'freed up' to focus on other things while his long time trusted ally and friend, Lino, [ LIKE A SMILING RASPUTIN] 'handles' the aquarium stuff.
Lino always gives good news no matter what the news, so Sarmiento will be fed the positive stuff til the ban suddenly picks up steam from other sectors, particularly the DENR. [Dept.of Natural Resources]
They should'a listened, should'a let divers be trained to show local benefit to this trade.
Now instead of a few thousand 'innocent fisherman' being put out of work the issue is framed as a few thousand 'cyanide fisherman' being taken down.
Brilliant strategy to deny local benefit while pursuing esoteric, lofty,certification benefits for bigger business people MAC. Nice going.
If the trade is shut down, its because of the refusal and inability to show local benefit.
Steve @ AMDA

 

[naesco]

Jaime, I sat in on most of the discussions with Ferdinand and other reformists. There is the possability of a ban, but it may not happen right away. Lino Alvarez of the MAC confirmed to me that there is high level interest in a ban among government officials. I guess a lot depends on what the MAC does over the next few months. Lino Alvarez is quite influential with government officials (such as the Head of BFAR, Atty. Malcolm Sarmiento). The MAC convinced the government that it could reform the trade. The MAC needs to reform the trade by taking positive actions to ensure that net-training and CDT are implemented.

In my opinion, that requires funding net-training by contracting NGOs such as EASI, AMDA and/or CORL. They also need to convince BFAR to reimplement the CDT network. The best way to accomplish that would be for BFAR to issue another contract to the IMA.

Peter

Thank you Dr. Rubec for setting out a factual brief on what ocurred at MO2004.

I agree fully with your opinion on what is necessary.

Obviously the time is ticking away.
If industry wants to survive they must act now.

 

[Anonymous]

In my opinion, that requires funding net-training by contracting NGOs such as EASI, AMDA and/or CORL. They also need to convince BFAR to reimplement the CDT network. The best way to accomplish that would be for BFAR to issue another contract to the IMA.

Peter

Huh, funny, an "scientist" from the IMA saying in his opinion, the best way to get it done, is thru the IMA.

 

[PeterIMA]

Gresham, I also said "that funding net-training by contracting NGOs such as EASI, AMDA, and/or CORL.

That scientist

 

[Anonymous]

Right, contracted thru IMA, right