Reality of Fish Collection

[ezee]

Randy,

Thanks for the voice of reminder! Regarding cyanide fishing, I am a little unsure of what to do with this information. I was aware of cyanide fishing previously (I do a lot of reading) and have a bit more detail now but there has to be some sort of action that can be tied to this information.

I believe there have been a lot of comments about what is wrong but along with that it seems there is a lot of trepidation about what to do. So people do nothing and begin to ignore the issue.

I think asking questions about the issues and then taking action is really important. So here is my part.

Is there a list of retailers that MAC keeps that sell certified fish?

Can we buy from MAC facilities directly (group buys in large numbers)?

Can we approach a vendor to order from MAC directly or from a wholesaler that stocks MAC certified fish. I know certain fish stores don't believe in certain things so how about someone who would be willing?

E

 

[prattreef]

Eugene,
I believe (and this only makes sense) that you must get MAC fish from a MAC retailer ( why would anyone become certified otherwise?) and that Absolutely Fish in NJ is one of the only certfied retailers in the US. Again, MAC fish are only a small portion of their stock, but they do handle their fish responsibly as do others as well. But if you want MAC fish, they are the only place to go 'round here.

What to do? Only buy MAC fish, captive-bred ones, fish from non-cyanide collection areas-Red Sea, Marshall Is. Fiji etc. and let your local dealers know that this is something that you are doing consciously. Also, try to get stores to pressure their suppliers to be upfront with them about where their fish come from, and pressure them to buy large quantities of fish from some of the small non-MAC net caught stations in PI and Indo that are springing up and struggling to find buyers.

In reality this may all be taken care of for us in the not too distant future as I see Government regulation as inevitable especially in light of the failure of the industry to self regulate effectively as they have argued for.

Chris,
I agree that the Marine Ornamental industry is a relatively minor player in the distruction of marine habitat, but that does not excuse the very real damage we do. I believe in the adage "Think globally, Act Locally" and in this context acting locally means dealing with the aquarium industry as a hobbyist. Randy

 

[alrha]

We are beginning to conflate a lot of issues here:
1) Cyanide/clean fish sources/MAC etc.
2) responsible handling of livestock beyond capture
3) personal responsibility
4) commercialization of the site

nice organization Randy, i bet each one of those topics can be a whole thread...

 

[ezee]

Randy,

Excellent! Some guidelines. I will definitely do that! Thanks again.

Eugene

 

[alrha]

to be realistic, i dont see stores really acting based on a few of us walking in and saying we want non-cyanide caught fish. MR does not represent the entire aquaria hobby in the tri-state area, say 30 ppl on this board are convinced enough to go to their LFS (assuming they use a LFS and are not buying online or from other local vendors) i dont think it would make enough noise. There are obviously enough hobbyists around to keep all those stores in business, but how many actually take it as seriously as we do discussing every possible topic day and night? Take New World Aquarium for example, conveniently located in Manhattan. reports from members indicate that the store actually does not like MR and as such, this board in general does not support the store (i'll admit i do walk over there during lunch from time to time and pop in, perhaps pick up an urchin or something). Did NWA close down due to an essential MR boycot? no! they are still open and making enough money from every other aquarist that could care less.
my point is that 'boycotting' not MAC certified fish would likely not make enough of an effect for businesses to change their practices as we are probably just an insignificant proportion of their business. if it is a matter of self regulation that us more advanced / more knowledgable / more caring hobbyist want to make sure to only purchase MAC certified fish, then that is to be commended, but dont expect it to change the pet industry.
not to get into the commercialization aspect, but if any of our local vendors were to decide to sell exclusively MAC certified / ORA certified / or the like, i would suspect they may be able to find enough demand here to satisfy their side-business.

 

[ezee]

Albert,

My sentiments exactly. I don't think you can change the process that exact way but if small retailers see one person successful at it they will follow and so on.

E

 

[DEEPWATER]

Just chiming in.
I will be looking into getting MAC certified fish for MR Member.I see lots of interest on this topic.ill keep everyone informed.
Ronen
Deepwater Extreme

 

[alrha]

there we go, now we are getting somewhere.
If Deepwater (and others) can get them for us, at least we will know that WE are not having as negative an impact, and we will have local suppliers we can trust.
i dont think it would be too difficult for a smallish operation (like DWE) to keep track of water changes and feedings, etc. and it can provide us all with that added peace of mind that we are purchasing quality/healthy livestock.

 

[prattreef]

Ronen,
I appreciate the effort, but I doubt you can get them for the reasons I detailed before. If any non-certified businesses had access to the fish supply, their system of verification would totally crumble and there would be no reason for retailers to go through the ardous process of certification.
Also, I don't want to tout MAC as the only answer here as they really have been quite ineffective given how long they have been in the game. For a guy like you, or smaller shops not prepared to go through certification... and I'm not sure it is worth it... you would be better served buying your livestock from some of the better wholesalers ( your sources already qualify in my mind) and be really conscious of where, location wise, the fish are coming from. Don't buy fish from PI or Indo unless your suppliers can convince you they are from net caught sources ( in your case, I think the chances are good they will tell you the truth) and be prepared to deal with a diminished selection as a result.

Randy

 

[Sean]

MAC is not the answer I'm sorry if you guys think that some stamp of approval will make you feel better about what is being done.

Just because a supplier isn't MAC certified doesn't mean that their fish are not collected properly. What about ORA are they MAC certified? What about fish collected from the Red Sea are they automatically MAC certified? Should they be? After all MAC is teaching the practices they perfected to other countries and giving them a stamp of approval.

This just doesn't add up in my book.

I've been in the industry for 17 years I have seen cyanide fish in all their "glory"! Trust me when I say it's not like it used to be. But the practice still exists. Stores and wholesalers still buy from them because it's cheap and people want good prices. Just like puppy mills, its a sort of fish mill. Pumping out fish to keep up with the demand and price that you as consumers demand. Keep supporting the problem and it continues. I have selected the suppliers I trust over the years at my own expense. This is how I know the quality that I have to demand for my clients. Unlike other shops, I (the owner) go out and care for my clients aquariums. I have to keep these fish alive for years and years. If there was a problem I would see it and have to deal with it. I kind of went off topic a little but I'm trying to get the idea in your heads that concentrating on MAC is not the answer. IMO

 

[prattreef]

Which is exactly what I said RD

 

[jhale]

bumping this thread up, it's worth reading, some great info here

 

[prattreef]

Thanks Jon. I was just gearing up/ debating whether to bother going into this all again. If he can be coaxed into the fray, GreshamH our SF Bay Area MR member has a wealth of knowledge on these issues.

Randy

 

[jhale]

Randy, I think it's worth it. I know it's discussed on other boards, but this is the one good thread we have on the subject.

 

[GreshamH]

Thanks Jon. I was just gearing up/ debating whether to bother going into this all again. If he can be coaxed into the fray, GreshamH our SF Bay Area MR member has a wealth of knowledge on these issues.

Randy

Oh great, now I have to read a 14 page thread before I can reply :lol: Once I get thru reading all the posts, I'll post my bit

 

[prattreef]

Thanks Gresham. Your input is really appreciated. We are lucky to have someone with your extensive experience in the industry and with these issues among us.

 

[GreshamH]

Thanks

I happy to be in such a nice community. So little flaming goes on around here from what I have seen over the last few months I have been lurking