NYC Public School aquarium

[Aquadicted]

Hi Guys,

I'm helping install a 150G which will probably be a fowlr in PS 57. Which I'm doing this on my own time to share this great hobby with the kids. And the principal is even getting his science teachers together to figure out a curriculum.

I'm here because we would really appreciate any kind of support for this project. The school is located in 113 st and 3rd ave.

The things we could use:

-Any possible curriculum ideas.
-More hands to help out with delivery.
-A van/truck to pick up and drop off aquarium.
-Any related equipment.
-And in the future, any REEF SAFE fish and inverts etc.


Thank you for reading,

Bill

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Really? In THAT school?

 

[Aquadicted]

Yep

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Do you work there or were you watching me? I was just sitting in front of that place.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Yeah!? Is THAT school a bad one or a great one? J/K.

If you ever need a whole lots of cheato for the fuge, I can give you plenty. I can give you like 3g worth of it.

 

[skene]

Do you work there or were you watching me? I was just sitting in front of that place.

prEvert!!!

:lol2:

For curriculum you can possibly discuss social behavior, sexual and asexual reproduction (if you were doing corals). coral regrowth and generation. coral uses in the medical field. benefits of coral reefs for human consumption. pollution and the effects on sea life. overfishing.

There is actually a trove of information you can provide regarding the sea.

 

[JARRETT SHARK]

I have Two questions for you since I work on ventilation at schools and I ask myself this all the time because I always thought this must be reason they don't set up tanks..

1) does the school have A/C because in summer months they shut off A/C at night and schools get real hot(90 plus)so the tank will get to hot, Same goes with heat in schools
2) does the school close in the summer or does it have summer school? And who will feed them everyday if school is closed

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

That school gets sweltering in the summertime. Been there all times of the day and night.

 

[KathyC]

Due to the concerns already brought up, it is much easier to do FW tank in schools where you don't have the great concerns about heat and maintenance of a SW tank, nor most of the associated costs (think salt, lighting, reactor media)..and all of those school vacations!

With a community type FW tank, there is a LOT that the kids can learn from it and it is a whole lot easier to maintain, and the kids can be a lot more involved in it, and others who work there can easily be taught how to maintain it.

I admire your offer to do thus for the school, but please do consider FW as an alternative choice.

 

[tunicata]

Oh, neat.

I installed and maintain a 55g in the H.S. I work in.
There are tons of interesting classroom extensions- into water chemistry/toxicology, wave action, circulation, dissolved oxygen, composition of saltwater vs fresh vs brackish, ecological succession, organic waste, temperature and salinity, plant growth etc
Essentially multiple labs and observations to investigate a variety of abiotic factors and their influence on the various organisms in the tank.

I will say that it is easier to stick with a FOWLR for sanity sake.

I started this one as a mixed reef and it was fine for 1 year. Then in the first summer I had issues with custodial crew throwing away my supplies (they thought the bin of rocks 'cooking' was trash....
Or the custodial crew one winter unplugging the lights and pumps over winter holiday and killing the larger fish and all of the coral.

I have never had an issue with the students doing anything bad to the tank.

For the issue of heat...definitely something to consider. In the late spring-summer months I take out the heater.
I also had to do water top off every week because evaporation rate is so high.
For the majority of the life of the tank I used my old T5's.

That burned out this past Sept.
So, I gave them my MH. I wish i had something that provided less heat...because now i have to top off every 1-3 days.

Now...I haven't thought about what I will do when the summer comes. MH plus a sweltering building will not be pretty.

As for taking care of the tank during holidays (winter and summer), I usually have the security guards (they really like helping, but some over feed despite my instructions!) feed daily, and do top offs.
During the summer i try to come in and check on the tank once a week or once every two weeks depending on what I am doing that summer.

That's why I suggest staying with the FOWLR. If it is unlikely that you/someone responsible will come in to check on the tank, do water changes (no one will do that for me), check on equipment AND PUT MONEY INTO THE TANK then the FOWLR is the easiest.

Every year, I put at least $500 into the tank, not counting the equipment I donate from my old set ups i.e. MH, sump, pumps, T5's, etc. I have a very close relationship with Drs foster and smith, and buy from vendors here, and spend a lot of time looking through the FOR FREE posts.

Also, MR and njreefers have been very nice in giving me discounts (vendors) or free/discounted items (members).


Additionally, if you want to add some coral, stick with softies. Some nice zoas, and or GSP or shrooms would look lovely. Also, you can teach about asexual propagation. You can have the students set up frag labs in the classroom.
I also have my students set up phyto culturing stations.

Pm if you have more questions on my experience. I also have an ES HS tank thread somewhere here.

 

[James]

As a teacher who tried to do a large SW tank in a school in NYC, take the advice given... go FW. I have a small 28 gallon "reef" tank in my classroom but it is a PITA being the only one who knows how to properly care for it. If you need any specific pointers do not hesitate to PM.

 

[KathyC]

Oh, neat.

I installed and maintain a 55g in the H.S. I work in.
There are tons of interesting classroom extensions- into water chemistry/toxicology, wave action, circulation, dissolved oxygen, composition of saltwater vs fresh vs brackish, ecological succession, organic waste, temperature and salinity, plant growth etc
Essentially multiple labs and observations to investigate a variety of abiotic factors and their influence on the various organisms in the tank.

I will say that it is easier to stick with a FOWLR for sanity sake.

I started this one as a mixed reef and it was fine for 1 year. Then in the first summer I had issues with custodial crew throwing away my supplies (they thought the bin of rocks 'cooking' was trash....
Or the custodial crew one winter unplugging the lights and pumps over winter holiday and killing the larger fish and all of the coral.

I have never had an issue with the students doing anything bad to the tank.

For the issue of heat...definitely something to consider. In the late spring-summer months I take out the heater.
I also had to do water top off every week because evaporation rate is so high.
For the majority of the life of the tank I used my old T5's.

That burned out this past Sept.
So, I gave them my MH. I wish i had something that provided less heat...because now i have to top off every 1-3 days.

Now...I haven't thought about what I will do when the summer comes. MH plus a sweltering building will not be pretty.

As for taking care of the tank during holidays (winter and summer), I usually have the security guards (they really like helping, but some over feed despite my instructions!) feed daily, and do top offs.
During the summer i try to come in and check on the tank once a week or once every two weeks depending on what I am doing that summer.

That's why I suggest staying with the FOWLR. If it is unlikely that you/someone responsible will come in to check on the tank, do water changes (no one will do that for me), check on equipment AND PUT MONEY INTO THE TANK then the FOWLR is the easiest.

Every year, I put at least $500 into the tank, not counting the equipment I donate from my old set ups i.e. MH, sump, pumps, T5's, etc. I have a very close relationship with Drs foster and smith, and buy from vendors here, and spend a lot of time looking through the FOR FREE posts.

Also, MR and njreefers have been very nice in giving me discounts (vendors) or free/discounted items (members).


Additionally, if you want to add some coral, stick with softies. Some nice zoas, and or GSP or shrooms would look lovely. Also, you can teach about asexual propagation. You can have the students set up frag labs in the classroom.
I also have my students set up phyto culturing stations.

Pm if you have more questions on my experience. I also have an ES HS tank thread somewhere here.

I applaud you Tuni for all you are doing with that tank, but I think the most important difference here is that you work at that school and have daily access to work on it and keep your eye on it.

I am not getting the impression (though I could be wrong!) that this fellow works at the school, so he would have to make continual trips there to maintain the tank and that is going be become a very expensive project timewise and money wise at 150G's compared to your 55G.

 

[e.muehlbauer]

In the past, I have done work with salt water in my HS where I teach. It is doable, but it will be stressful for the fish, and the potential for disaster is always there (for the fish...I'm not talking about explosions or anything like that). The temperature extremes were already mentioned. In winter, there will be only minimal heat at night and on weekends. In summer, it will get extremely hot. Vacations are always a problem. Schools these days are open during the summer, and principals work year round, although they have a 2 week break in August. But it still means finding someone you can trust who will do the required maintenance. Things will go wrong- the building is locked and nobody can get in, the boiler gets shut down for maintenance during a winter break and the temps reach the 30's, followed by extreme heat as they check out the boiler. I know myself, just from my home tank, how many things can go wrong...but I am here to fix them. How many times did my skimmer leak? Overflow? The time(s) my skimmer connection got loose and water pumped on the floor? I was always home to fix it. But what if that happens on vacation? I agree that kids are USUALLY very respectful towards fishtanks and their inhabitants. However, in the days when we kept tanks in classrooms there was always chewed gum to fish out. I even dismantled a 55 gal tank and re-homed the fish one year after a kid tossed a big and very dusty book into the tank. At least that one was FW. So, it is doable, but make sure that you have major back-up for maintenance 365 days a year, and make sure that whatever you get is extremely hardy.

 

[Josh]

You want to talk to Tunicata or Prattreef about this. Both of them have experience with tanks in public schools as well as curriculum.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Clearly the challenge is great but doable as long as the system is not too complex nor too large to maintain with few dedicated people.


Instead of worry, I rather think of many projects that the whole school can work on such as having the science class make a solar panel battery system for fans at night in the summer, solar thermal system for the winter night, tons of interesting projects, wind mill water aeration and so forth.

 

[prattreef]

As Josh alluded to, I set up and maintained a 75g. reef in the lobby of my son's ( former) elementary school in Bklyn ( PS 58) for 5 years. It was a real challenge in many ways, but also one of the most rewarding experiences of my reefing career.

The concerns noted above are real and there are significant challenges in making this work long-term:

1) The point person --the one who has prior experience ( the the OP I'm assuming in this case) needs to be truly committed and willing to put in the bulk of the time needed to maintain the system.
2) You need real buy in from the principal, a teacher or 2 and the janitorial staff. The latter are critically important because they are the ones around over weekends and vacations and they also control a lot of what you can and can't do off hours.
3) Keep the system as simple as possible.
4) Find a way to engage reliable and interested kids in the day to day maintenance of the tank. We started a marine science club that met before school. This way, the daily chores are curricular and therefore get done. The entire 5th grade also did a marine science "capstone" project that they shared with the whole school.
5) The tank needs a tight fitting lid and equipment etc needs to be secured in a locked cabinet stand.

Just so you know, I am super experienced and super involved with my kids school and we also had a very involved ( but non-hobbyist) science teacher. It took A LOT of effort to keep this going including frequent trips to the school to work with the kids ( the good part) and required trips to the school over vacations and over the summer ( the bad part). And now that my son is no longer in the school, the tank is pretty bleak.

I am happy to speak with you or the teachers if you'd like. I'd also like to add that the MR community was extremely supportive ( no surprise) and most of the equipment etc. was donated or acquired at deeply reduced cost to the school. This is a fantastic thing to do, something I wish more hobbyists would make the effort to do, but all involved really need to step up or it is doomed to failure.

 

[Aquadicted]

Thank you all for the really really helpful input. I'm sure you guys have just collectively saved me and the school a lot of time and stress.

Prattreef, I'm meeting with the science teachers and the principal sometime this week to discuss the aquarium. It would be great if someone of your experience can come and share your knowledge and perhaps point us in the right direction. I will pm you my number.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

You will need to make sure the night guy knows to NEVER touch the tank.

 

[tunicata]

Ah, I see Kathy,
I agree, if you do not have the resources (time and money you can pay an aquarium service to fix all of the potential problems) then SW is probably not the best idea.


Do you work at the school? What is your connection to it? Where is the 130g tank and stuff coming from?
It would be horrible to undertake a project like this with great intentions and have it fail.

Well, I will highlight another very important part of my experience:
I (with the help of students and security guards) spend at least 10hours per week on the tank.
Most of that time is put in by me, because none of the other people actually know what they are doing from life experiences/schooling/etc. They only do things if I ask.

That becomes very exhausting and I work as a science teacher in the building so I'm in the building from 7am-3 (or 5) at the very least every day.

I cannot imagine what would happen if I left the school.

When I leave for summers and let's say 2 weeks go by and I make a phone call to check in, instead of going in...i'm told everything is fine, etc.
When I get there...the water line is down 4-6inches, the front of the tank is covered in cyano, and the medium size container of prime reef i bought only a month ago is empty.

So many hair ripping moments. I've considered shutting it down many times.

But...when I'm using my class prep time to do a water change...I see students and staff passing the tank and making positive comments...it feels worth it.

 

[Fitch4]

I work at a public high school in CT and started with a 55 gallon reef that was just there for the school year and then got bucketed up and moved home for the summer. It has since grown into a 1200 gallon coral propagation research project with students working on projects dealing with various aspects of coral biology. From my experience I can say this:
1. It is an AMAZING teaching tool. I cannot get my kids away from the tank, and that goes for the super motivated to the super unmotivated. The project has jumped all over the place with kids looking at LED's, to DNA and evolution work, to just straight coral propagation projects. I have learned a bunch and so have the kids.
2. It is tough to do even if you work there. I teach full time and spend a considerable amount of my time working in the tanks. Some days it is nice to go back and do some mindless work like water changes and such, other days I don't have the time to do the work I have to do on the system. I do always feel like it is not what I want it to be but with my job and a family, it is atleast #3 on the list.
3. It is a significant financial draw as well. The set-up is just the first part of it. You need to replace things all the time. I hate the idea of running it like a business but I sell some frags to make a few $ to buy things like salt, bulbs, etc... It would be awesome if some incredibly wealthy person just dropped a check in the account and I could just run it without worry of where the next bucket of salt is coming from.
4. It would be very tough to run it if I did not teach at the school. Even in the summer I am in a few times a week to check on things, do water changes, etc... I do teach high school so I can use the students to do some of the work but in the end, it is my responsibility.
If you have questions, I'd be happy to chat about what I have learned. I am not in a NYC school obviously but it is similar for sure.
-Jon